The car park

The first UK wiring regulations were published on May 11th, 1882.  The primary concern was the prevention of fire risks from early electric lighting installations

Chris Pearson said:

So how much energy is stored in 20 gal of petrol?

The time it takes to put out a petrol car fire varies greatly depending on the fire's size and stage, the materials involved, the amount of fuel, and the firefighting method used. There is no single "average" time, but rather a range of scenarios

Initial Stage Fires: Small fires (e.g., in the engine bay) can sometimes be extinguished in minutes, or even seconds, with a dry powder or foam extinguisher if tackled immediately and correctly (without fully opening the bonnet and providing a rush of Oxygen)


Diesel vs. petrol: Diesel fuel is less volatile and less likely to ignite from a simple spark at normal temperatures compared to petrol; a lit match in a bucket of diesel may even be extinguished. However, once a diesel fire starts, especially if the fuel is atomized (such as from a high-pressure line leak) or preheated, it can burn very hot and be difficult to extinguish


Dealing with a petrol or diesel car fire normally takes around 30 minutes, whereas an EV fire takes around 4 to 5 hours or longer where water has been used, and fire crews usually prefer to let them burn themselves out

Sergio Fernandez said:

Dealing with a petrol or diesel car fire normally takes around 30 minutes, whereas an EV fire takes around 4 to 5 hours or longer where water has been used, and fire crews usually prefer to let them burn themselves out

So given that the ratio of IC car fires to electric car fires is something like 4:1 to 8:1 (depending which data you look at e.g  https://www.portskillsandsafety.co.uk/about/news/statistics-on-vehicle-fires-comparing-electric-and-non-electric-vehicles/ ) it pretty much averages out - moving to EVs results in less fires but burning for longer.

Anyway, in that link you'll see this issue is already being considered (hardly surprising) here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65bb7b5ccc6fd600145dbe1a/covered-car-parks-fire-safety-guidance-for-electric-vehicles.pdf 

That document was released almost 3 years ago.  Regulation and Legislation are certainly way behind the curve, maybe they need to pick the pace up a bit

AJJewsbury said:

As for mobility impaired evacuation, there tends to be ramp access to all areas anyway (so cars can get in and out in normal conditions) - so maybe wheelchairs etc already have a means of escape?

Probably in an above ground car park, but propelling oneself, or pushing someone else up a ramp from an underground car park could be quite a challenge.

Also there is the general point that in respect of EVs in the community, we are roughly still at the "unsafe at any speed" level of broad integration of EVs, compared ICE vehicles at the time of Nader's book. In particular the Ford Pinto fuel tank issue was after Nader's book.

For EVs, we also have the problem of the lie of the Fire Triangle approach to fire fighting. Electric arcs, and battery chemical reactions don't follow the fire triangle, so there will be on-going developments in both the power train (fuel to traction) and in the 'fire' fault development & responses.

The recent Heathrow transformer 'fire' also had the fire brigade hanging around while the electric was isolated before the rest of the oxygen triangle fire was addressed.

There is a lot of rubber, plastics and oils based products in the modern car that still burns very well, independent of the state of battery charge. There were some numbers in the LASH FIRE studies for RoRo ship fire issues. The headlines often concentrate on the latest 'worries', rather than old news frequent issues.

As you say, folks are working the issues.

Sergio Fernandez said:

The first UK wiring regulations were published on May 11th, 1882. 

Indeed and were initially to directly replace/harmonise electrical standards produced by individual house insurance companies at the time - however the days of insurance companies having such direct technical involvement are I think long gone, especially with such mobile risks as motor vehicles. The insurers of the car park building might be reassured by compliance with certain precautions and offer lower premiums in return (in the same way as some home insurance companies offer lower premiums if locks on outer doors comply with certain BSs) but for the car park operator it will be a financial decision whether the costs of the upgrades are justified by the reduced premiums.

   - Andy.

Sergio Fernandez said:

Should all UK Car Parks apart from Open air have 
Fire detection with 24/7/365 monitoring with backup power supply
Increase amount of manual fire call points per floor and throughout stairwells to increase evacuation alert
EVSE auto shut off for power in the event of a fire or an alarm
Battery backup for emergency lights for a min of 6 hours
Increased amount of illuminated fire exits signs
Fire resistant cabling throughout
Fire restitant cable management/containment throughout
Increase IP rating throughout in case of fire due to the amount of water that may be used
Annual EICR
Technology/Mechanisms to assist evacuation of disabled and mobility impaired persons, this could include evacuation lift replacing the passenger lift

There have, in recent years, been a couple of very serious and devastating fires in multi-storey car parks caused by vehicles setting on fire in England, for example:

•  Liverpool Echo Arena (King's Dock) car park fire: https://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/media/1592/kings-dock-car-park-fire-sir.pdf
•  Luton Airport car park fire: https://www.bedsfire.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-10/Significant%20Incident%20Report%20LLA%20Car%20Park%202%20fire.pdf 

It is my understanding that, in neither of these cases were the vehicles that started the fire electric vehicles.

So, in answer to the question ... 'Yes, probably ... but not just because of electric vehicles.'

gkenyon said:

It is my understanding that, in neither of these cases were the vehicles that started the fire electric vehicles.

So, in answer to the question ... 'Yes, probably ... but not just because of electric vehicles.'

Interesting report on the Liverpool fire. "Running fuel" would not have come from EVs.

Going slightly off topic but also staying generally on topic... I spent Saturday night/Sunday morning aboard an overnight ferry from France to the UK and, as how my usual geeky brain works, as we were boarding with our vehicle and parked up alongside the lorries and RVs etc belonging to our fellow travellers, I got to wondering how they deal with EVs for fire risks etc while on board? 

If you're using the rail tunnel its a bit different as there is a service tunnel running alongside that's used for escape in case of fire etc (I'd love the opportunity to cycle the 26 mile length of the service tunnel but that's another story ) but obviously if you're out in the middle of the channel and one of the EVs on board suddenly catches fire in the hold, how is that dealt with? 

Needless to say, I familiarised myself with ALL the safety notices in my cabin on the topic of the evacuation process, assembly points and lifeboat locations etc before getting my head down for a few hours kip!