Deciphering an electricity meter serial number

I have sympathy for you with dealing with BG. I've recently gone through the process of getting the gas supply discontinued ('cos my new heat pump is up and running nicely so I don't need gas any more).. They clearly don't have a button for that. They managed to mess up just about every stage of the process, seemed to know nothing of what their organisation had already done, and the number of times I had to repeat the same basic information even on the same chat was painful. Several times I was convinced I was "chatting" to an AI bot rather than a human. They did get there in the end though, but it took a lot of doing for what (I imagined) should have been a fairly simple process.Be persistent!

I'm not quite following what you want to achieve with the meter serial number though. You presumably have the number of the meter you've got - which is the important one, and the MPAN should be on your bills (check against old ones to verify it's the same from before the meter swap - AFAIK it should remain unchanged).  What's the relevance of other meters of the same batch? - even if the numbers were issued in sequence - that would presumably be at the factory, so likely would have been jumbled a few times - at the depot being put into the van, taken out of the van, etc etc. 

   - Andy.

AJJewsbury said:

I'm not quite following what you want to achieve with the meter serial number though.

Andy, thank you.

Until Russia invaded Ukraine, all was well. Then the smaller suppliers folded because they did not have the resources to buy futures, so I ended up with BG. On the face of it, the price cap makes it pretty irrelevant who supplies your leccy.

To clarify, I have an old SP supply to my house and a newer TP supply to my garage. Whilst I could get a tariff with a low standing charge, there was no urgent need to connect the latter to the former.

So BG has attached the new SP smart meter to the TP MPAN, which means that I am getting billed twice for the same leccy: once (on an estimated basis) on the old 'dumb' meter, which is in landfill, and a second time through the smart meter on the wrong MPAN.

You will not be surprised that I am in the process of switching (to Octopus), but only the TP supply for the moment. What I want to pre-empt is the smart meter remaining attached to the MPAN. Therefore, I want to say that the SN of the smart meter shows that it is SP, which could not possibly meter TP.

I have tried to be brief. Is that any clearer?

I want to say that the SN of the smart meter shows that it is SP, which could not possibly meter TP.

Ah OK. That sounds tricky - a) working that out and b) convincing the call centre of your logic.

I might be easier to just take digital photo of the meter (complete with serial number and connections) - that should be sufficient to show it's not on the 3-phase MPAN. And maybe one for your 3-phase incomer (and whatever meter it still has) - you never know they might understand better that something's wrong if they can see the serial number of your other meter doesn't match their records. Their chat system has a facility to upload image files (as I found out when they "lost" my old meter they'd removed so didn't have a final reading - luckily I'd been paranoid enough to take a photo of the meter just before it was removed).

   - Andy.

AJJewsbury said:

luckily I'd been paranoid enough to take a photo of the meter just before it was removed

I forgot that step, although a photo of it disconnected and sitting on the ground might have been more persuasive.

It did occur to me that a SP meter could be connected to a TP supply - it just ignores the two unconnected phases. My parents used to live at the end of a street and quite possibly the end of the main came up the garage wall with only one phase connected.

Any road, today I was switched to Octopus, which also seems to have its call centre in South Africa. So I have sent a photo of the TP meter, which was supposedly removed on 24 Nov 25.

They also wanted a photo of the smart meter, which is not connected to their MPAN, and which they do not supply, but the telephonist was charming, so I gave in.

Re "AFAIK it should remain unchanged)" the core MPAN will be the same as will be the DNO identifier and the Line Loss Factor but the three digits that contain the Meter/Timeswitch code might well change depending on what was there before.  Then again they could also be the same. 

You could call the DNO MPAS enquiry line and they will tell you from the serial numbers which MPAN and address they are associated with.  Armed with this information you will then need to talk to your supplier whi should take the lead to put things right.  This can be a very involved process especially if there are different suppliers involved for the different supplies.  My advice would be to sort it out at an early stage.  

statter said:

My advice would be to sort it out at an early stage. 

I am trying. One reason for switching supplier was to make a clearer distinction between the two supplies.

Perhaps the real problem is the smart meter? So regardless of where it is connected, the supplier is charging me on the basis of the readings which they are receiving.

Is the system old enough to predate MPAN numbers originally - late 1990s probably ? If so it may be that one rather than two numbers are assigned to the property, i.e. not one per meter! .
If you have old bills available for both supplies the MPAN nos will be 13 (original style) or 21 (new style ) digit numbers and should be on the bill somewhere, perhaps as 'supply reference' or 'S number' .

As above the Meter Point admin service (MPAS) should be able to give you this, and perhaps that will make it clear if the wrong one has been assigned in the national register. ( https://customer.nationalgrid.co.uk/advice-and-guidance/meter-point-administration-service )

Customer telephone number:  0345 601 5972
Supplier telephone number:  0345 601 5972

Email
nged.duos@nationalgrid.co.uk

Apparently assignment errors are rare but not unknown, but to prevent billing frauds, changing the register entry to correct them is a reasonably manual process involving a trusted  subset of the supplier staff, folk at the DNO, and the national registration team,, so you need to get put through to the right person to co-ordinate all that - which by all accounts probably has not happened yet.

It may help to mention phrases like

"MPAN resurrection" (for reactivating a connection incorrectly marked as removed) or

"MPAN association"  (for 2 meters at the same address with common billing so 2 MPANS one address )

To help the 'have a nice day' layer of call handlers to realise who within their own team to connect you with.

Good luck. Having had a similar but not quite the same issue with a rented flat where the meter was changed on paper, but it wasn't on the wall as the one that arrived was not the right sort,  and all that had really changed was the pay as you go token,  I can only say you need patience, and a comfortable chair for sitting in while 'on hold'  until suddenly on the Nth attempt, you get to the right expert and the fog lifts really quickly ...

Keep us updated. 

Mike

Perhaps the real problem is the smart meter?

I suspect the problem was the person involved in fitting the smart meter - presumably they looked up the MPAN for your address, didn't notice that there were two and picked the wrong one and so associated the meter wrongly. Had they done that with a conventional meter fitting it would sill have caused problems - quite possibly when the meter reader noticed the meter serial numbers didn't match and let loose their fraud department.

   - Andy.

That became apparent when I got my quarterly statements.

If the meter had not been smart, the suppliers would have had to rely upon my monthly readings, as they have done previously.

I have done more delving.

Schedule 7 of the Electricity Act 1989 appears to apply:

1(1) Where a customer of an authorised supplier is to be charged for his supply wholly or partly by reference to the quantity of electricity supplied, the supply shall be given through, and the quantity of electricity shall be ascertained by, an appropriate meter.

(6) For the purposes of this paragraph a meter is an appropriate meter for use in connection with any particular supply if it is of a pattern or construction which, having regard to the terms on which the supply is to be charged for, is particularly suitable for such use.

Clearly the new meter is not "appropriate" as defined, but I have yet to convince the supplier.

That became apparent when I got my quarterly statements.

If the meter had not been smart, the suppliers would have had to rely upon my monthly readings, as they have done previously.

I have done more delving.

Schedule 7 of the Electricity Act 1989 appears to apply:

1(1) Where a customer of an authorised supplier is to be charged for his supply wholly or partly by reference to the quantity of electricity supplied, the supply shall be given through, and the quantity of electricity shall be ascertained by, an appropriate meter.

(6) For the purposes of this paragraph a meter is an appropriate meter for use in connection with any particular supply if it is of a pattern or construction which, having regard to the terms on which the supply is to be charged for, is particularly suitable for such use.

Clearly the new meter is not "appropriate" as defined, but I have yet to convince the supplier.