Chartership through further learning at work, HND to IEng & CEng?

The Engineering council does not require any formal academic qualification for any registration category. But, it does require suitable underpinning knowledge and understanding (UKU) and broadly sets out equivalences for those who gain such base knowledge through an academic qualification.

In general the institutions and academia like it that way as they can play an "each to their own" with a little bit of quality assurance thrown in. Most then have side routes that look at existing UKU but this requires you to 'present' your case with demonstrations that you know your stuff. 

See Paul Meenan of the 'e5 group' story for inspiration. 

Are you doing the courses just to get the certificate (i.e. already know the stuff)? Or is it a conscious effort to build a broader/deeper understanding around what you already know?

You could try other colleges/universities to see if you can transfer some prior learning, or even go back to the admissions part of your former establishment (as a professional, a second opinion is valuable..)

Appreciate the presentation linked by Paul Meenan - I found that truly inspirational!


With regards to:

1) Former establishment: I've submitted an appeal to increase the absolute maximum to period of completion - unlikely to be allowed back.

2) Apprenticeships: I've reached out to the most used teaching institution. I was told I do not meet the criteria for advanced entry onto their Building Services Design Engineering (Level 6) due to the difference in course material. I've asked for further information with regards to this as my entire degree at my former establishment was accredited by CIBSE themselves..

3) Other universities, unlikely due to not having physical transcripts (yet). 

To answer your question: Both, most definitely I want to make a conscious effort to build a broader/deeper understanding around what I already know (sustainable engineering in the Built Environment). On the topic of certifications - most candidates hold a degree (Bachelors or Masters) for the graduate schemes/IEng sponsorships roles I'm applying for. Then all these roles to gain UKU to meet IEng criteria require the above credentials. 

It seems to be a closed system even though an individual doesn't require a degree for chartership. Thankfully I've caught the attention of a director whilst inquiring about apprenticeships so will see what's in store for me!

Many thanks Mr Oakley!

Grace Kahil said:

It seems to be a closed system even though an individual doesn't require a degree for chartership.

That's a fair point. The Engineering Council essentially defines that you need the equivalent of an accredited masters for CEng. But what makes an equivalence is a hard question. I suspect in part its due to the complexity of the assessment.

If you have no qualifications at all, many institutions seem to go the path of having the candidate write a technical report (essentially a masters level project write-up). But you are in the position where you have a reasonable level of qualification. In fact the Engineering Council AHEP standard does define what the top-up from a HND should look like for IEng.

One of our graduates (who has a bachelors) asked me recently whether it was better to go for a part time MSc (typically 3 years) or to just build experience. Ultimately, its not going to be a dissimilar time to build the experience, so my view was it depended if they wanted to do the MSc.

Incidentally, in my field there is the CSEP certification, if you don't have an appropriate degree, they define the requirements as:

• Have five (5) years systems engineering experience with a qualifying degree. If lacking a qualifying degree, the following is required: o With a non-qualifying bachelor’s degree or no degree: 10 years of engineering experience is required, of which a minimum of 5 years must be SE experience

So, any person lacking the appropriate qualifications needs an extra 5 years of engineering experience. At least its well defined!

Grace Kahil said:

It seems to be a closed system even though an individual doesn't require a degree for chartership.

That's a fair point. The Engineering Council essentially defines that you need the equivalent of an accredited masters for CEng. But what makes an equivalence is a hard question. I suspect in part its due to the complexity of the assessment.

If you have no qualifications at all, many institutions seem to go the path of having the candidate write a technical report (essentially a masters level project write-up). But you are in the position where you have a reasonable level of qualification. In fact the Engineering Council AHEP standard does define what the top-up from a HND should look like for IEng.

One of our graduates (who has a bachelors) asked me recently whether it was better to go for a part time MSc (typically 3 years) or to just build experience. Ultimately, its not going to be a dissimilar time to build the experience, so my view was it depended if they wanted to do the MSc.

Incidentally, in my field there is the CSEP certification, if you don't have an appropriate degree, they define the requirements as:

• Have five (5) years systems engineering experience with a qualifying degree. If lacking a qualifying degree, the following is required: o With a non-qualifying bachelor’s degree or no degree: 10 years of engineering experience is required, of which a minimum of 5 years must be SE experience

So, any person lacking the appropriate qualifications needs an extra 5 years of engineering experience. At least its well defined!

The engineering council does not require any equivalent to a masters for CEng.  A recognised MEng or recognised batchelors with recognised masters can be used to demonstrate UK&u but there is the IET individual route too. Over 70% of applicants to the IET adopt this non recognised route.  The requirement, as copied from V4 UKSPEC is:

Through the individual route you are assessing for an equivalence. Equivalence comes in many forms, which that paragraph details. It may be formal courses, but it may also be work-based and experimental learning. There are many options.

There is a further guidance note from the Engineering Council that deals with international degree recognition and degrees from pre-UK-SPEC (like mine, which was SARTOR).

I don't precisely know how the IET assesses UK&U, but I do know how my other institution does it. Given they are both meeting the underlying Engineering Council standards, I would suspect they are similar.

I've been involved in more than a few assessments over the past few years through my other institution.