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Chartership through further learning at work, HND to IEng & CEng?

Grace Kahil

Hello all!

Bit of a wild card here.. I appreciate any one reading & commenting! I have kept certain institutions anonymous as I just want to shed light to my query.

I had interrupted my studies at a Russel Group university on a CIBSE & Part 1 RIBA accredited course due to carer responsibilities. 2 years on, I'm resuming my career and progression to IEng & CEng. I reached out to my personal tutor also the Head of "X course" to re-join & was told that I will most likely not allowed back due to the development in the industry/course material, the university's T&Cs on maximum period of completion & would have to re-enrol entirely. My physical transcripts are on hold due to administrative issues during my interruption.

Currently holding a HND/Level 5, I'm struggling to find any entry level work (relevant to IEng) let alone company training schemes/sponsorships without a Bachelors degree (& transcripts). Is this because the criteria to meet IEng is only through a Bachelors (in a relevant degree & accredited institution) after Sept 1999? Or is it because I do not hold a BEng/Level 6? If so I'm not able to be accepted onto an accredited and relevant top up course due to my transcripts (I tried  & was told by the admissions team to send a letter from my head of faculty confirming my attendance. To be then ignored by the admissions officer after relaying what I was told would suffice). Is it right to not wait x months/years till the next academic enrolment (or the mercy of an empathetic admissions officer) and to instead progress through relevant work experience & sponsorship? 

Entry roles of interest (usually BEng level): Building Physics Engineer, Sustainability consultant, Structural Engineer, Project Design Engineer, Building Services Engineer, Environmental Engineer.
Roles I am a top candidate for (HND level): CAD Technician, usually for data centres which is not relevant in the further learning at work route to IEng? 

I'm very stuck with my options at the moment as this was not part of my Net Zero initiative 10 year plan! 

I would appreciate any insight into my career progression with a HND to Chartership!

To confirm my questions are:

1) Is there a route to Chartership by a Licensed Professional Engineering Institution for engineers in the UK with a HND, 

2) How do I find a sponsor to get on the IEng ladder with a HND?

3) Can I apply to EngTech with a HND?

 

My sources;

From the Engineering council, www.engc.org.uk/.../incorporated-engineer-ieng

  • An HNC or HND started after Sept 1999 (but before Sept 2010 in the case of the HNC) or a Foundation Degree in engineering or technology, plus appropriate further learning to degree level

It then goes onto "Please note:

  • You can still become an IEng without these academic qualifications. Further information about the individual, work-based, assessment process can be found in UK-SPEC and from your Licensed PEI "

My Licensed PEI: CIBSE https://www.cibse.org/media/5izkxlj2/acibse-application-guidance-2021.pdf CIBR19123 Associate Application Guidance v2

"If you do not hold an exemplifying qualification for IEng, you can take the experience route as depicted below." 

"Find a sponsor who can support your application."

From my university:

Absolute maximum period for completion – Full-time

Honours Degree 6 years

"The school will then need to judge whether, in the light of these circumstances, it is possible for the student to complete their studies within a period that sufficiently ensures the currency of their knowledge, their competency and the quality of their degree. If the school believes that it is, on balance, appropriate to extend the absolute maximum for that student, they will then provide a new absolute maximum to which the student must adhere."

  • +1

    Hi Grace,

    1) Technically yes, and I have supported a person who had an HND and did manage to get their CEng. However, essentially you are replacing the educational aspects with further learning through work based learning. This experience has to be at the right level, which doesn't sound like its the case for you right now.

    3) Yes, I've seen cases of people who have BSc's/BEng's apply for EngTech. So an HND should't be an issue as long as you can demonstrate the competencies.

    2) This is challenging - especially in the current market...

    Clutching at straws a bit, but one route would be to see if there are any apprenticeships available, especially with companies working of large government funded projects that have a social commitment to meet. However, that can be a bit of a postcode lottery. The new funding rules can impact you if you fall outside the age limit.

    One thing to consider is organisations like Supported Return to Work Programmes | STEM Returners. There are a few other similar organisations like this. I did meet someone on this scheme, but she didn't ultimately take up a job after her placement.

  • 0

    I've been awarded IEng with a HNC in building services and have been told I will be able to attain CEng accreditation as I have over 30-years experience spanning different roles.

  • 0 in reply to Mark Tickner

    Hi Mark,


    Thank you that was really insightful! I'll look into my EngTech application for now & have applied to a couple positions through the STEM returns org you mentioned. 


    As you said the current market for roles to get your foot in the door is challenging, there are many experienced, degree qualified candidates and many many over qualified Senior/Masters candidates, thank you Linked in Premium!

    Realistically, I need to be looking at advanced entry onto a level 6 apprenticeship possibly level 7 if I meet the criteria for care leaver exemption. It's unfortunate that they recently reduced the age bracket to 24 as I'm in my late 20s.

    Just wondering;

    Could you tell me a bit more about the person you supported with a HND, how did they find the opportunity with you, did they progress through relevant work experience/hold certificates to boost their CVs etc?

    Many many thanks!

  • 0 in reply to David Cieszynski

    Congratulations!

    Could you tell me a bit more on your route to IEng?

  • 0 in reply to Grace Kahil

    I detailed my employment history detailing various roles that achieved specific competencies i.e. C2, my PRA advised me to put my competencies in squared brackets as it allows the reviewers to search your application easier.

    One tip I'll give you when you go to do your presentation number your points don't use bullet points, as you then can say "I'd like to bring to your attention point 4" and go on to discuss that point.

  • 0 in reply to David Cieszynski

    Awesome, thank you Slight smile
    Best wishes in your CEng Chartership!

  • +1 in reply to Grace Kahil

    Hi Grace,

    I can't share too many details. But I volunteer as a professional registration advisor with a different institution, and the person was allocated to me when they applied for a mentor. They got me in part because I'm experienced with that institutions procedure for further learning.

    At that time they had ~6years post the L5 apprenticeship that led to the HND and were in a technical manager type role, leading a small team. So, demonstrating the competencies was fairly easy, it was just the task to demonstrate that they had the equivalent education. As it was an apprenticeship, they also had work experience through the HND as well.

    To sort of answer the second part of your question, it was mostly done through relevant work experience. They hadn't done any top up certificates.

  • +1

    The Engineering council does not require any formal academic qualification for any registration category. But, it does require suitable underpinning knowledge and understanding (UKU) and broadly sets out equivalences for those who gain such base knowledge through an academic qualification.

    In general the institutions and academia like it that way as they can play an "each to their own" with a little bit of quality assurance thrown in. Most then have side routes that look at existing UKU but this requires you to 'present' your case with demonstrations that you know your stuff. 

    See Paul Meenan of the 'e5 group' story for inspiration. 

    Are you doing the courses just to get the certificate (i.e. already know the stuff)? Or is it a conscious effort to build a broader/deeper understanding around what you already know?

    You could try other colleges/universities to see if you can transfer some prior learning, or even go back to the admissions part of your former establishment (as a professional, a second opinion is valuable..)

  • 0 in reply to Philip Oakley

    Appreciate the presentation linked by Paul Meenan - I found that truly inspirational!


    With regards to:


    1) Former establishment: I've submitted an appeal to increase the absolute maximum to period of completion - unlikely to be allowed back.


    2) Apprenticeships: I've reached out to the most used teaching institution. I was told I do not meet the criteria for advanced entry onto their Building Services Design Engineering (Level 6) due to the difference in course material. I've asked for further information with regards to this as my entire degree at my former establishment was accredited by CIBSE themselves..


    3) Other universities, unlikely due to not having physical transcripts (yet). 

    To answer your question: Both, most definitely I want to make a conscious effort to build a broader/deeper understanding around what I already know (sustainable engineering in the Built Environment). On the topic of certifications - most candidates hold a degree (Bachelors or Masters) for the graduate schemes/IEng sponsorships roles I'm applying for. Then all these roles to gain UKU to meet IEng criteria require the above credentials. 

    It seems to be a closed system even though an individual doesn't require a degree for chartership. Thankfully I've caught the attention of a director whilst inquiring about apprenticeships so will see what's in store for me!

    Many thanks Mr Oakley!

     

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