ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL IN STATUS

Moshe,

I'm retiring,

It is up to your generation to make the profession open to all who are prepared to work and study, no matter what their origins or background.


Engineering is hard but it can be fun and rewarding, It must not be restrictive to university graduates only.


I did an apprenticeship which took me into science fiction and pioneering.

I met some great engineers from nearly every country that has some sort of scientific or engineering capability.


Thank you for your comment.

John Gowman MIET I've given up my titles.

I was IEng and it was a great honor to be registered as IEng. While I rpogressed to CEng my fellow Engineers 

I want to ecorage IEngs that there is a need and recognition of the IEng registration.

There are jobs that specifically state IEng in the job requirements.

Examples - ** I'm not connected to these employers and its just to demonstarate how some employers view IEng.

 

Fleet Engineer

This means we are looking for a Chartered or Incorporated Engineer (or be working towards either accreditation) who has a keen eye for detail, a passion for...

 

Highways Engineer

Working towards Incorporated/Chartered Engineer status of respective professional institution; For this role, we are seeking an experienced Highways Engineer...

 

Exciting Opportunities for Engineers!

Candidates to be fully registered with the Engineering Council as Incorporated Engineers (IEng). Defence Equipment and Support (DE&S) is a highly specialised...

 

Senior Street Lighting Engineer

You will be or actively working towards Incorporated or Chartered status of a relevant professional institution and you will need to demonstrate ability to...

 

Process Engineer

Chartered or Incorporated Engineer. Process Engineer (Chemical Engineer) -. Process Engineers, work closely with EC&I Engineers, Mechanical Engineers and...

Peter Miller:

Another difference is that IEng is a grade that is in terminal decline and unlikely to be around in 10 years time.

Peter
I Eng, is it important ?
IEng is a grade that is in terminal decline and unlikely to be around in 10 years time.
You are probably right. What a waste of talent, here is some background on I Eng  for those new to this PEI.

Has IET lost interest in I Eng, has the ECUK lost interest in I Eng ?

Engineering Council Registration - Incorporated Engineer (IEng)
Incorporated Engineers maintain and manage applications of current and developing technology, and may undertake engineering design, development, manufacture, construction and operation.

 
IEng registrants are also variously engaged in technical and commercial management and possess effective interpersonal skills.

 
IEng registration shows your employer and peers that you have demonstrated a commitment to professional standards, and to developing and enhancing your competence.

 
The benefits of Professional registration as an Incorporated Engineer (IEng) include:

• With the letters IEng after your name you have recognition of your proven competence, commitment, skills and experience.

• Improved career prospects

• Greater influence within your organisation and industry

• Access to life-long learning.

JG : an I Eng is less competent than a C Eng in advanced IT mathematical calculations and final report writing.
A C Eng does not have a complete engineering formation. They are complementary.

IET
“Many excellent professionals enjoy highly successful engineering and engineering management careers without being able to fully demonstrate the CEng standard”. Ref R Bowdler.
JG : That is because IET cannot attract up and coming engineers that have not had the chance to go to university. The typical I Eng today is a contract worker that has great difficulty finding fixed term contracts, he does not have the means to idle at the fac. He has to do 6 years distance studies after a full day’s work & transport to make I Eng grade, (universities only give 1 semester credit for HNC  which is really worth 4years distance studies!)
To make C Eng registration another 4 years master distance studies are necessary, unless a PEI and a university assessor accord a written monologue for M Eng equivalent.
R Bowdler “With the right experience, you may not need to gain fully exemplifying  academic qualifications,

 
JG This is a fact, however many companies refuse to pay these successful professional engineers a C Eng salary.

I Eng is not a restriction to success. It is a restriction to financial reward.
Such is the UK, PEI club status a brick a brack of 40  or more PEIs and other learned societies who do not see eye to eye.
A modern day Free Masonry based on subjective approval by people who often do not themselves meet UK Spec, and requiring sponsorship and references; when elsewhere, a CV with CPD, work certificates and academic diplomas is all that is necessary to be recruited.
Of course, if you publish a technical document, a PhD, Doctor Eng, or C Eng, will give weight to your analysis.

• In my case an ASME « U Stamp» is worth a thousand C Eng.

I do not need C Eng to do the work I carried out in France. BSc, I Eng and successful projects were enough.

BACK DOOR ENTRIES
I did not apply for C Eng, IET because the UK R&D centre that I applied to, refused to accept IET C Eng, they only wanted I Eng I Mech E. After an interview with their Chief Engineer; BSc, C Eng Fellow IMechE, (No Master) he realised that IET was a multi discipline PEI, he marched all his non registered PEs through the IET back door with a short circuit, mass recruitment and his CEO was made Honorary Fellow IET.

IET attitude towards I Eng
C Eng IET look down on IEng!
IIE (ITEME/IMechIE/ IIE and other PEI) amalgamated with IEE which had incorporated many other PEI – IET no longer represents the I Eng as an equal professional engineer – references:
I have contacted IET thrice, these are the replies I received:

• IIE the institute we have taken over!

• What is I Eng; never heard of it - Switch board operator at IET HQ

• (IET) is referred to by its employees as the company.

 
JG: It is evident that IET is returning to an IEE C Eng dominated PEI, even though UK C Engs are not the majority members, they are the dominant members.
There are two main cases for C Eng registration via I Eng; the first are younger members progressing in the disciplines who have been to university. The second are older I Eng who are applying for C Eng via the mature candidate route.

• I Eng will not interest the younger members that have a BSc as their BSc with MIET is sufficient to gain an engineering post if C Eng applied for is put on the CV.

• I Eng is still a good opportunity for a HNC apprentice trained PE.

• BSc Fellow IET is an equivalent in the UK for a senior engineering post. It is not acceptable for Eur Ing or senior posts abroad.

 
Yes, I Eng is a typical UK absurdity, it needs to be sorted out or dropped. A basic engineering grade is needed. C Eng needs to be re-evaluated, most C Eng are not innovative mathematically bent engineers.

 
I am proud of my RAE apprenticeship leading to I Eng, this permitted me to study on a Mastère course in nuclear physics in French, before taking alternative studies by a BA in maths & materials!
I have had many C Eng working for me; all my French ingénieurs had a master at least, many were PhD. I was respected by all.
I have led engineering research projects with participants on my projects at Professor, PhD, C Eng status. I have been consulted by 5 Nobel laureates, Directors of the leading R&D centres worldwide and by Nuclear Engineering companies. I have been general manager of a leading Special Techniques company and led novel energy projects worldwide.  I “Surveilled” the latest EPR project.
UK companies such as RR or UKAEA use my development work or engineering assessments but refuse to accept my application for an engineering post as I do not fit into the C Eng box ticking procedure. I had C Eng (not IET) refused on five occasions – hard luck on them.

All that an engineer needs is :

• a plastic card authorising him to be responsible to engineer

• a PEI that represents his interests and keeps him informed of events and progress in this multi disciplinary activity called Engineering & Technology.

Progress has to be made; we are in the 21^st century.
I Eng RIP

PS
IET History
The Institution of Incorporated Engineers (IIE) was a multidisciplinary engineering institution in the United Kingdom. In 2006 it merged with the Institution of Electrical Engineers (IEE) to form the Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET). Before the merger the IIE had approximately 40,000 members. The IET is now the second largest engineering society in the world next to the IEEE. The IET has the authority to establish professional registration of engineers (Chartered Engineer or Incorporated Engineer) through the Engineering Council.
The IEEE does not have the authority to replicate the registration process in its complementary environment.

The IIE traces its heritage to the

• I884 Vulcanic Society that was founded in 1884. The Vulcanic Society was formed^[1] by a group of apprentices from the works of Maudslay, Son & Field Ltd, in Lambeth, London. This society went through 3 name changes before it became the

• 1902  Junior Institution of Engineers in 1902, which became the

• 1970    Institution of General Technician Engineers in 1970 and the

• 1976  Institute of Mechanical and General Technician Engineers (IMGTechE) in 1976.

• In 1982 the IMGTechE and Institution of Technician Engineers in Mechanical Engineering (ITEME) merged to form the Institution of Mechanical Incorporated Engineers (IMechIE).

• 1990   The Institution of Electrical and Electronic Incorporated Engineers (IEEIE) and the Society of Electronic and Radio Technicians (SERT) merged in 1990 to form the Institution of Electronics and Electrical Incorporated Engineers (IEEIE).

• 1998  The IIE was formed in April 1998 by the merger of the IMechIE, the IEEIE and The Institute of Engineers and Technicians (IET). In 1999 The Institution of Incorporated Executive Engineers (IIExE) merged with the IIE.

• 2001   In October 2001, IIE received a Royal Charter in recognition of the significant contribution of its members to the UK economy and society.

• In 2005 The Society of Engineers also merged with the IIE.

• Discussions started in 2004 between the IEE and the IIE about the formation of a new institution, the Institution of Engineering and Technology.

Electrical side ref R Bowdler ( Can anyone add to this)

• The IEETE became the IEEIE

• TE and became a member of the IE 

• IE moved across to the ASEE,

• which merged into the IIExE,

• which merged into the IIE,

• which merged into the IET.

• the IEEIE/ IMechIE approved scheme led to the smooth M&E merger.

 
Following members voting in favour of the merger, the IET became operational on 31 March 2006.
Engineering Council

 
More and more institutions encourage senior Incorporated Engineers to seek Fellow registration, while I Eng representation on boards and committees is becoming commonplace.

 

 
UK Status
C Eng & I Eng wants status recognition to sign passports or assist younger people with administrative references only.

 
Deontology
PEIs, IET included have rules of ethics. I Eng and C Eng are registered each year at ECUK which accords the use of the respective titles.
I Eng and C Eng are the first foot on the ladder of practicing professional engineers.
If one is no longer employed or in search of a post as a practicing professional engineer, then that person has no right to the nominatives I Eng and C Eng. They should inform IET /ECUK of their situation.
IET should make a register of non practicing engineers with a quick return procedure for when they practice engineering at their previous status again.

• We should abide by the ethics we impose on others.

 
Retiring PEI Member status
C Eng & I Eng are active engineering titles : Retired MIET have no right to a professional title. 

• IET or other PEI has no provision for retired members

 
I am retiring why should I pay for a title I am not allowed to use.
I have resigned from ECUK, I count on retired members to respect the IET rules of ethics and resign from ECUK.

 
Just be proud members IET.

 
J Gowman MIET

Peter Miller:

Another difference is that IEng is a grade that is in terminal decline and unlikely to be around in 10 years time.

Peter
I Eng, is it important ?
IEng is a grade that is in terminal decline and unlikely to be around in 10 years time.
You are probably right. What a waste of talent, here is some background on I Eng  for those new to this PEI.

Has IET lost interest in I Eng, has the ECUK lost interest in I Eng ?

Engineering Council Registration - Incorporated Engineer (IEng)
Incorporated Engineers maintain and manage applications of current and developing technology, and may undertake engineering design, development, manufacture, construction and operation.

 
IEng registrants are also variously engaged in technical and commercial management and possess effective interpersonal skills.

 
IEng registration shows your employer and peers that you have demonstrated a commitment to professional standards, and to developing and enhancing your competence.

 
The benefits of Professional registration as an Incorporated Engineer (IEng) include:

• With the letters IEng after your name you have recognition of your proven competence, commitment, skills and experience.

• Improved career prospects

• Greater influence within your organisation and industry

• Access to life-long learning.

JG : an I Eng is less competent than a C Eng in advanced IT mathematical calculations and final report writing.
A C Eng does not have a complete engineering formation. They are complementary.

IET
“Many excellent professionals enjoy highly successful engineering and engineering management careers without being able to fully demonstrate the CEng standard”. Ref R Bowdler.
JG : That is because IET cannot attract up and coming engineers that have not had the chance to go to university. The typical I Eng today is a contract worker that has great difficulty finding fixed term contracts, he does not have the means to idle at the fac. He has to do 6 years distance studies after a full day’s work & transport to make I Eng grade, (universities only give 1 semester credit for HNC  which is really worth 4years distance studies!)
To make C Eng registration another 4 years master distance studies are necessary, unless a PEI and a university assessor accord a written monologue for M Eng equivalent.
R Bowdler “With the right experience, you may not need to gain fully exemplifying  academic qualifications,

 
JG This is a fact, however many companies refuse to pay these successful professional engineers a C Eng salary.

I Eng is not a restriction to success. It is a restriction to financial reward.
Such is the UK, PEI club status a brick a brack of 40  or more PEIs and other learned societies who do not see eye to eye.
A modern day Free Masonry based on subjective approval by people who often do not themselves meet UK Spec, and requiring sponsorship and references; when elsewhere, a CV with CPD, work certificates and academic diplomas is all that is necessary to be recruited.
Of course, if you publish a technical document, a PhD, Doctor Eng, or C Eng, will give weight to your analysis.

• In my case an ASME « U Stamp» is worth a thousand C Eng.

I do not need C Eng to do the work I carried out in France. BSc, I Eng and successful projects were enough.

BACK DOOR ENTRIES
I did not apply for C Eng, IET because the UK R&D centre that I applied to, refused to accept IET C Eng, they only wanted I Eng I Mech E. After an interview with their Chief Engineer; BSc, C Eng Fellow IMechE, (No Master) he realised that IET was a multi discipline PEI, he marched all his non registered PEs through the IET back door with a short circuit, mass recruitment and his CEO was made Honorary Fellow IET.

IET attitude towards I Eng
C Eng IET look down on IEng!
IIE (ITEME/IMechIE/ IIE and other PEI) amalgamated with IEE which had incorporated many other PEI – IET no longer represents the I Eng as an equal professional engineer – references:
I have contacted IET thrice, these are the replies I received:

• IIE the institute we have taken over!

• What is I Eng; never heard of it - Switch board operator at IET HQ

• (IET) is referred to by its employees as the company.

 
JG: It is evident that IET is returning to an IEE C Eng dominated PEI, even though UK C Engs are not the majority members, they are the dominant members.
There are two main cases for C Eng registration via I Eng; the first are younger members progressing in the disciplines who have been to university. The second are older I Eng who are applying for C Eng via the mature candidate route.

• I Eng will not interest the younger members that have a BSc as their BSc with MIET is sufficient to gain an engineering post if C Eng applied for is put on the CV.

• I Eng is still a good opportunity for a HNC apprentice trained PE.

• BSc Fellow IET is an equivalent in the UK for a senior engineering post. It is not acceptable for Eur Ing or senior posts abroad.

 
Yes, I Eng is a typical UK absurdity, it needs to be sorted out or dropped. A basic engineering grade is needed. C Eng needs to be re-evaluated, most C Eng are not innovative mathematically bent engineers.

 
I am proud of my RAE apprenticeship leading to I Eng, this permitted me to study on a Mastère course in nuclear physics in French, before taking alternative studies by a BA in maths & materials!
I have had many C Eng working for me; all my French ingénieurs had a master at least, many were PhD. I was respected by all.
I have led engineering research projects with participants on my projects at Professor, PhD, C Eng status. I have been consulted by 5 Nobel laureates, Directors of the leading R&D centres worldwide and by Nuclear Engineering companies. I have been general manager of a leading Special Techniques company and led novel energy projects worldwide.  I “Surveilled” the latest EPR project.
UK companies such as RR or UKAEA use my development work or engineering assessments but refuse to accept my application for an engineering post as I do not fit into the C Eng box ticking procedure. I had C Eng (not IET) refused on five occasions – hard luck on them.

All that an engineer needs is :

• a plastic card authorising him to be responsible to engineer

• a PEI that represents his interests and keeps him informed of events and progress in this multi disciplinary activity called Engineering & Technology.

Progress has to be made; we are in the 21^st century.
I Eng RIP

PS
IET History
The Institution of Incorporated Engineers (IIE) was a multidisciplinary engineering institution in the United Kingdom. In 2006 it merged with the Institution of Electrical Engineers (IEE) to form the Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET). Before the merger the IIE had approximately 40,000 members. The IET is now the second largest engineering society in the world next to the IEEE. The IET has the authority to establish professional registration of engineers (Chartered Engineer or Incorporated Engineer) through the Engineering Council.
The IEEE does not have the authority to replicate the registration process in its complementary environment.

The IIE traces its heritage to the

• I884 Vulcanic Society that was founded in 1884. The Vulcanic Society was formed^[1] by a group of apprentices from the works of Maudslay, Son & Field Ltd, in Lambeth, London. This society went through 3 name changes before it became the

• 1902  Junior Institution of Engineers in 1902, which became the

• 1970    Institution of General Technician Engineers in 1970 and the

• 1976  Institute of Mechanical and General Technician Engineers (IMGTechE) in 1976.

• In 1982 the IMGTechE and Institution of Technician Engineers in Mechanical Engineering (ITEME) merged to form the Institution of Mechanical Incorporated Engineers (IMechIE).

• 1990   The Institution of Electrical and Electronic Incorporated Engineers (IEEIE) and the Society of Electronic and Radio Technicians (SERT) merged in 1990 to form the Institution of Electronics and Electrical Incorporated Engineers (IEEIE).

• 1998  The IIE was formed in April 1998 by the merger of the IMechIE, the IEEIE and The Institute of Engineers and Technicians (IET). In 1999 The Institution of Incorporated Executive Engineers (IIExE) merged with the IIE.

• 2001   In October 2001, IIE received a Royal Charter in recognition of the significant contribution of its members to the UK economy and society.

• In 2005 The Society of Engineers also merged with the IIE.

• Discussions started in 2004 between the IEE and the IIE about the formation of a new institution, the Institution of Engineering and Technology.

Electrical side ref R Bowdler ( Can anyone add to this)

• The IEETE became the IEEIE

• TE and became a member of the IE 

• IE moved across to the ASEE,

• which merged into the IIExE,

• which merged into the IIE,

• which merged into the IET.

• the IEEIE/ IMechIE approved scheme led to the smooth M&E merger.

 
Following members voting in favour of the merger, the IET became operational on 31 March 2006.
Engineering Council

 
More and more institutions encourage senior Incorporated Engineers to seek Fellow registration, while I Eng representation on boards and committees is becoming commonplace.

 

 
UK Status
C Eng & I Eng wants status recognition to sign passports or assist younger people with administrative references only.

 
Deontology
PEIs, IET included have rules of ethics. I Eng and C Eng are registered each year at ECUK which accords the use of the respective titles.
I Eng and C Eng are the first foot on the ladder of practicing professional engineers.
If one is no longer employed or in search of a post as a practicing professional engineer, then that person has no right to the nominatives I Eng and C Eng. They should inform IET /ECUK of their situation.
IET should make a register of non practicing engineers with a quick return procedure for when they practice engineering at their previous status again.

• We should abide by the ethics we impose on others.

 
Retiring PEI Member status
C Eng & I Eng are active engineering titles : Retired MIET have no right to a professional title. 

• IET or other PEI has no provision for retired members

 
I am retiring why should I pay for a title I am not allowed to use.
I have resigned from ECUK, I count on retired members to respect the IET rules of ethics and resign from ECUK.

 
Just be proud members IET.

 
J Gowman MIET

Peter Miller:

Another difference is that IEng is a grade that is in terminal decline and unlikely to be around in 10 years time.

Peter
I Eng, is it important ?
IEng is a grade that is in terminal decline and unlikely to be around in 10 years time.
You are probably right. What a waste of talent, here is some background on I Eng  for those new to this PEI.

Has IET lost interest in I Eng, has the ECUK lost interest in I Eng ?

Engineering Council Registration - Incorporated Engineer (IEng)
Incorporated Engineers maintain and manage applications of current and developing technology, and may undertake engineering design, development, manufacture, construction and operation.

 
IEng registrants are also variously engaged in technical and commercial management and possess effective interpersonal skills.

 
IEng registration shows your employer and peers that you have demonstrated a commitment to professional standards, and to developing and enhancing your competence.

 
The benefits of Professional registration as an Incorporated Engineer (IEng) include:

• With the letters IEng after your name you have recognition of your proven competence, commitment, skills and experience.

• Improved career prospects

• Greater influence within your organisation and industry

• Access to life-long learning.

JG : an I Eng is less competent than a C Eng in advanced IT mathematical calculations and final report writing.
A C Eng does not have a complete engineering formation. They are complementary.

IET
“Many excellent professionals enjoy highly successful engineering and engineering management careers without being able to fully demonstrate the CEng standard”. Ref R Bowdler.
JG : That is because IET cannot attract up and coming engineers that have not had the chance to go to university. The typical I Eng today is a contract worker that has great difficulty finding fixed term contracts, he does not have the means to idle at the fac. He has to do 6 years distance studies after a full day’s work & transport to make I Eng grade, (universities only give 1 semester credit for HNC  which is really worth 4years distance studies!)
To make C Eng registration another 4 years master distance studies are necessary, unless a PEI and a university assessor accord a written monologue for M Eng equivalent.
R Bowdler “With the right experience, you may not need to gain fully exemplifying  academic qualifications,

 
JG This is a fact, however many companies refuse to pay these successful professional engineers a C Eng salary.

I Eng is not a restriction to success. It is a restriction to financial reward.
Such is the UK, PEI club status a brick a brack of 40  or more PEIs and other learned societies who do not see eye to eye.
A modern day Free Masonry based on subjective approval by people who often do not themselves meet UK Spec, and requiring sponsorship and references; when elsewhere, a CV with CPD, work certificates and academic diplomas is all that is necessary to be recruited.
Of course, if you publish a technical document, a PhD, Doctor Eng, or C Eng, will give weight to your analysis.

• In my case an ASME « U Stamp» is worth a thousand C Eng.

I do not need C Eng to do the work I carried out in France. BSc, I Eng and successful projects were enough.

BACK DOOR ENTRIES
I did not apply for C Eng, IET because the UK R&D centre that I applied to, refused to accept IET C Eng, they only wanted I Eng I Mech E. After an interview with their Chief Engineer; BSc, C Eng Fellow IMechE, (No Master) he realised that IET was a multi discipline PEI, he marched all his non registered PEs through the IET back door with a short circuit, mass recruitment and his CEO was made Honorary Fellow IET.

IET attitude towards I Eng
C Eng IET look down on IEng!
IIE (ITEME/IMechIE/ IIE and other PEI) amalgamated with IEE which had incorporated many other PEI – IET no longer represents the I Eng as an equal professional engineer – references:
I have contacted IET thrice, these are the replies I received:

• IIE the institute we have taken over!

• What is I Eng; never heard of it - Switch board operator at IET HQ

• (IET) is referred to by its employees as the company.

 
JG: It is evident that IET is returning to an IEE C Eng dominated PEI, even though UK C Engs are not the majority members, they are the dominant members.
There are two main cases for C Eng registration via I Eng; the first are younger members progressing in the disciplines who have been to university. The second are older I Eng who are applying for C Eng via the mature candidate route.

• I Eng will not interest the younger members that have a BSc as their BSc with MIET is sufficient to gain an engineering post if C Eng applied for is put on the CV.

• I Eng is still a good opportunity for a HNC apprentice trained PE.

• BSc Fellow IET is an equivalent in the UK for a senior engineering post. It is not acceptable for Eur Ing or senior posts abroad.

 
Yes, I Eng is a typical UK absurdity, it needs to be sorted out or dropped. A basic engineering grade is needed. C Eng needs to be re-evaluated, most C Eng are not innovative mathematically bent engineers.

 
I am proud of my RAE apprenticeship leading to I Eng, this permitted me to study on a Mastère course in nuclear physics in French, before taking alternative studies by a BA in maths & materials!
I have had many C Eng working for me; all my French ingénieurs had a master at least, many were PhD. I was respected by all.
I have led engineering research projects with participants on my projects at Professor, PhD, C Eng status. I have been consulted by 5 Nobel laureates, Directors of the leading R&D centres worldwide and by Nuclear Engineering companies. I have been general manager of a leading Special Techniques company and led novel energy projects worldwide.  I “Surveilled” the latest EPR project.
UK companies such as RR or UKAEA use my development work or engineering assessments but refuse to accept my application for an engineering post as I do not fit into the C Eng box ticking procedure. I had C Eng (not IET) refused on five occasions – hard luck on them.

All that an engineer needs is :

• a plastic card authorising him to be responsible to engineer

• a PEI that represents his interests and keeps him informed of events and progress in this multi disciplinary activity called Engineering & Technology.

Progress has to be made; we are in the 21^st century.
I Eng RIP

PS
IET History
The Institution of Incorporated Engineers (IIE) was a multidisciplinary engineering institution in the United Kingdom. In 2006 it merged with the Institution of Electrical Engineers (IEE) to form the Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET). Before the merger the IIE had approximately 40,000 members. The IET is now the second largest engineering society in the world next to the IEEE. The IET has the authority to establish professional registration of engineers (Chartered Engineer or Incorporated Engineer) through the Engineering Council.
The IEEE does not have the authority to replicate the registration process in its complementary environment.

The IIE traces its heritage to the

• I884 Vulcanic Society that was founded in 1884. The Vulcanic Society was formed^[1] by a group of apprentices from the works of Maudslay, Son & Field Ltd, in Lambeth, London. This society went through 3 name changes before it became the

• 1902  Junior Institution of Engineers in 1902, which became the

• 1970    Institution of General Technician Engineers in 1970 and the

• 1976  Institute of Mechanical and General Technician Engineers (IMGTechE) in 1976.

• In 1982 the IMGTechE and Institution of Technician Engineers in Mechanical Engineering (ITEME) merged to form the Institution of Mechanical Incorporated Engineers (IMechIE).

• 1990   The Institution of Electrical and Electronic Incorporated Engineers (IEEIE) and the Society of Electronic and Radio Technicians (SERT) merged in 1990 to form the Institution of Electronics and Electrical Incorporated Engineers (IEEIE).

• 1998  The IIE was formed in April 1998 by the merger of the IMechIE, the IEEIE and The Institute of Engineers and Technicians (IET). In 1999 The Institution of Incorporated Executive Engineers (IIExE) merged with the IIE.

• 2001   In October 2001, IIE received a Royal Charter in recognition of the significant contribution of its members to the UK economy and society.

• In 2005 The Society of Engineers also merged with the IIE.

• Discussions started in 2004 between the IEE and the IIE about the formation of a new institution, the Institution of Engineering and Technology.

Electrical side ref R Bowdler ( Can anyone add to this)

• The IEETE became the IEEIE

• TE and became a member of the IE 

• IE moved across to the ASEE,

• which merged into the IIExE,

• which merged into the IIE,

• which merged into the IET.

• the IEEIE/ IMechIE approved scheme led to the smooth M&E merger.

 
Following members voting in favour of the merger, the IET became operational on 31 March 2006.
Engineering Council

 
More and more institutions encourage senior Incorporated Engineers to seek Fellow registration, while I Eng representation on boards and committees is becoming commonplace.

 

 
UK Status
C Eng & I Eng wants status recognition to sign passports or assist younger people with administrative references only.

 
Deontology
PEIs, IET included have rules of ethics. I Eng and C Eng are registered each year at ECUK which accords the use of the respective titles.
I Eng and C Eng are the first foot on the ladder of practicing professional engineers.
If one is no longer employed or in search of a post as a practicing professional engineer, then that person has no right to the nominatives I Eng and C Eng. They should inform IET /ECUK of their situation.
IET should make a register of non practicing engineers with a quick return procedure for when they practice engineering at their previous status again.

• We should abide by the ethics we impose on others.

 
Retiring PEI Member status
C Eng & I Eng are active engineering titles : Retired MIET have no right to a professional title. 

• IET or other PEI has no provision for retired members

 
I am retiring why should I pay for a title I am not allowed to use.
I have resigned from ECUK, I count on retired members to respect the IET rules of ethics and resign from ECUK.

 
Just be proud members IET.

 
J Gowman MIET

Peter Miller:

Another difference is that IEng is a grade that is in terminal decline and unlikely to be around in 10 years time.

Peter
I Eng, is it important ?
IEng is a grade that is in terminal decline and unlikely to be around in 10 years time.
You are probably right. What a waste of talent, here is some background on I Eng  for those new to this PEI.

Has IET lost interest in I Eng, has the ECUK lost interest in I Eng ?

Engineering Council Registration - Incorporated Engineer (IEng)
Incorporated Engineers maintain and manage applications of current and developing technology, and may undertake engineering design, development, manufacture, construction and operation.

 
IEng registrants are also variously engaged in technical and commercial management and possess effective interpersonal skills.

 
IEng registration shows your employer and peers that you have demonstrated a commitment to professional standards, and to developing and enhancing your competence.

 
The benefits of Professional registration as an Incorporated Engineer (IEng) include:

• With the letters IEng after your name you have recognition of your proven competence, commitment, skills and experience.

• Improved career prospects

• Greater influence within your organisation and industry

• Access to life-long learning.

JG : an I Eng is less competent than a C Eng in advanced IT mathematical calculations and final report writing.
A C Eng does not have a complete engineering formation. They are complementary.

IET
“Many excellent professionals enjoy highly successful engineering and engineering management careers without being able to fully demonstrate the CEng standard”. Ref R Bowdler.
JG : That is because IET cannot attract up and coming engineers that have not had the chance to go to university. The typical I Eng today is a contract worker that has great difficulty finding fixed term contracts, he does not have the means to idle at the fac. He has to do 6 years distance studies after a full day’s work & transport to make I Eng grade, (universities only give 1 semester credit for HNC  which is really worth 4years distance studies!)
To make C Eng registration another 4 years master distance studies are necessary, unless a PEI and a university assessor accord a written monologue for M Eng equivalent.
R Bowdler “With the right experience, you may not need to gain fully exemplifying  academic qualifications,

 
JG This is a fact, however many companies refuse to pay these successful professional engineers a C Eng salary.

I Eng is not a restriction to success. It is a restriction to financial reward.
Such is the UK, PEI club status a brick a brack of 40  or more PEIs and other learned societies who do not see eye to eye.
A modern day Free Masonry based on subjective approval by people who often do not themselves meet UK Spec, and requiring sponsorship and references; when elsewhere, a CV with CPD, work certificates and academic diplomas is all that is necessary to be recruited.
Of course, if you publish a technical document, a PhD, Doctor Eng, or C Eng, will give weight to your analysis.

• In my case an ASME « U Stamp» is worth a thousand C Eng.

I do not need C Eng to do the work I carried out in France. BSc, I Eng and successful projects were enough.

BACK DOOR ENTRIES
I did not apply for C Eng, IET because the UK R&D centre that I applied to, refused to accept IET C Eng, they only wanted I Eng I Mech E. After an interview with their Chief Engineer; BSc, C Eng Fellow IMechE, (No Master) he realised that IET was a multi discipline PEI, he marched all his non registered PEs through the IET back door with a short circuit, mass recruitment and his CEO was made Honorary Fellow IET.

IET attitude towards I Eng
C Eng IET look down on IEng!
IIE (ITEME/IMechIE/ IIE and other PEI) amalgamated with IEE which had incorporated many other PEI – IET no longer represents the I Eng as an equal professional engineer – references:
I have contacted IET thrice, these are the replies I received:

• IIE the institute we have taken over!

• What is I Eng; never heard of it - Switch board operator at IET HQ

• (IET) is referred to by its employees as the company.

 
JG: It is evident that IET is returning to an IEE C Eng dominated PEI, even though UK C Engs are not the majority members, they are the dominant members.
There are two main cases for C Eng registration via I Eng; the first are younger members progressing in the disciplines who have been to university. The second are older I Eng who are applying for C Eng via the mature candidate route.

• I Eng will not interest the younger members that have a BSc as their BSc with MIET is sufficient to gain an engineering post if C Eng applied for is put on the CV.

• I Eng is still a good opportunity for a HNC apprentice trained PE.

• BSc Fellow IET is an equivalent in the UK for a senior engineering post. It is not acceptable for Eur Ing or senior posts abroad.

 
Yes, I Eng is a typical UK absurdity, it needs to be sorted out or dropped. A basic engineering grade is needed. C Eng needs to be re-evaluated, most C Eng are not innovative mathematically bent engineers.

 
I am proud of my RAE apprenticeship leading to I Eng, this permitted me to study on a Mastère course in nuclear physics in French, before taking alternative studies by a BA in maths & materials!
I have had many C Eng working for me; all my French ingénieurs had a master at least, many were PhD. I was respected by all.
I have led engineering research projects with participants on my projects at Professor, PhD, C Eng status. I have been consulted by 5 Nobel laureates, Directors of the leading R&D centres worldwide and by Nuclear Engineering companies. I have been general manager of a leading Special Techniques company and led novel energy projects worldwide.  I “Surveilled” the latest EPR project.
UK companies such as RR or UKAEA use my development work or engineering assessments but refuse to accept my application for an engineering post as I do not fit into the C Eng box ticking procedure. I had C Eng (not IET) refused on five occasions – hard luck on them.

All that an engineer needs is :

• a plastic card authorising him to be responsible to engineer

• a PEI that represents his interests and keeps him informed of events and progress in this multi disciplinary activity called Engineering & Technology.

Progress has to be made; we are in the 21^st century.
I Eng RIP

PS
IET History
The Institution of Incorporated Engineers (IIE) was a multidisciplinary engineering institution in the United Kingdom. In 2006 it merged with the Institution of Electrical Engineers (IEE) to form the Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET). Before the merger the IIE had approximately 40,000 members. The IET is now the second largest engineering society in the world next to the IEEE. The IET has the authority to establish professional registration of engineers (Chartered Engineer or Incorporated Engineer) through the Engineering Council.
The IEEE does not have the authority to replicate the registration process in its complementary environment.

The IIE traces its heritage to the

• I884 Vulcanic Society that was founded in 1884. The Vulcanic Society was formed^[1] by a group of apprentices from the works of Maudslay, Son & Field Ltd, in Lambeth, London. This society went through 3 name changes before it became the

• 1902  Junior Institution of Engineers in 1902, which became the

• 1970    Institution of General Technician Engineers in 1970 and the

• 1976  Institute of Mechanical and General Technician Engineers (IMGTechE) in 1976.

• In 1982 the IMGTechE and Institution of Technician Engineers in Mechanical Engineering (ITEME) merged to form the Institution of Mechanical Incorporated Engineers (IMechIE).

• 1990   The Institution of Electrical and Electronic Incorporated Engineers (IEEIE) and the Society of Electronic and Radio Technicians (SERT) merged in 1990 to form the Institution of Electronics and Electrical Incorporated Engineers (IEEIE).

• 1998  The IIE was formed in April 1998 by the merger of the IMechIE, the IEEIE and The Institute of Engineers and Technicians (IET). In 1999 The Institution of Incorporated Executive Engineers (IIExE) merged with the IIE.

• 2001   In October 2001, IIE received a Royal Charter in recognition of the significant contribution of its members to the UK economy and society.

• In 2005 The Society of Engineers also merged with the IIE.

• Discussions started in 2004 between the IEE and the IIE about the formation of a new institution, the Institution of Engineering and Technology.

Electrical side ref R Bowdler ( Can anyone add to this)

• The IEETE became the IEEIE

• TE and became a member of the IE 

• IE moved across to the ASEE,

• which merged into the IIExE,

• which merged into the IIE,

• which merged into the IET.

• the IEEIE/ IMechIE approved scheme led to the smooth M&E merger.

 
Following members voting in favour of the merger, the IET became operational on 31 March 2006.
Engineering Council

 
More and more institutions encourage senior Incorporated Engineers to seek Fellow registration, while I Eng representation on boards and committees is becoming commonplace.

 

 
UK Status
C Eng & I Eng wants status recognition to sign passports or assist younger people with administrative references only.

 
Deontology
PEIs, IET included have rules of ethics. I Eng and C Eng are registered each year at ECUK which accords the use of the respective titles.
I Eng and C Eng are the first foot on the ladder of practicing professional engineers.
If one is no longer employed or in search of a post as a practicing professional engineer, then that person has no right to the nominatives I Eng and C Eng. They should inform IET /ECUK of their situation.
IET should make a register of non practicing engineers with a quick return procedure for when they practice engineering at their previous status again.

• We should abide by the ethics we impose on others.

 
Retiring PEI Member status
C Eng & I Eng are active engineering titles : Retired MIET have no right to a professional title. 

• IET or other PEI has no provision for retired members

 
I am retiring why should I pay for a title I am not allowed to use.
I have resigned from ECUK, I count on retired members to respect the IET rules of ethics and resign from ECUK.

 
Just be proud members IET.

 
J Gowman MIET

Re: ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL IN STATUS
Posted by Peter Miller on Jan 13, 2017 2:05 pm
Another difference is that IEng is a grade that is in terminal decline and unlikely to be around in 10 years time.
Peter,
JG : That is because IET cannot attract up and coming engineers that have not had the chance to go to university. The typical I Eng today is a contract worker that has great difficulty finding fixed term contracts, he does not have the means to idle at the fac. He has to do 8 years night studies after a full day’s work & transport.
See Re: Successful CEng appeal possible?
Posted by John Gowman on Nov 24, 2016 11:08 am

Peter,

Yes they are equal in status both are PE, they are different in competences.

No C Eng could do an I Eng task and vice – versa, unless he has been I Eng first, and even then he has probably lost some competence.

They are both needed as are managers, technicians and technologists.

It takes all types to complete a project.

In a PEI run by C Eng electrical PEs there is not much hope for change.

It is the PEIs and IET that are failing
The UK has no engineers register .
Engineers are legally responsible for their work, so they should be registered to accept that responsibility.
I Eng & C Eng are status not responsibility grades. I have been responsible for C Eng and uni profs, as well as scientists & technologists.
We should ask the question in the UK - What is the reason for PEIs, is it registration of C Eng or is it to promote the profession?
Note :
The EC^UK issues certificates to its registrants for their particular registration, they advise I Eng to add this statement below to their certificate when justifying their status for work or civil representations.


No one can refute this statement issued by your registration authority.

Is it up to date now.

Statement:
This document defines The Status Of 
A Corporate member of the Institution of  PEI XXXXXXX(IET in this case)
(Registered with the Engineering Council Register)
Joe Reginald Smith Reg N° O12356
Being a professional engineer holds a title recognised by the Government of the United Kingdom 
As falling within the scope of Directive 89/48/EEC
The directive is implemented for engineering in the UK by Statutory Instrument 
(SI) 1991 N° 824
(( The European Communities (Register of Professional Qualifications)
Regulations 1991))
The Engineering Council is recognised by the UK Government as the national representative body of the engineering profession, working in partnership with other engineering institutions, and is a Designated Authority,
Under the Implementing regulations for Directive 89/48/EEC.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The EC^UK recognises all professional engineers.


To all would be C Eng who are changing (not progressing) from I Eng, if you are refused C Eng, ask HQ for justification; any assessor who refuses C Eng at interview should be made to justify his action with sound proof.


To I Engs wanting to be registered C Eng for professional reasons i.e. to pass job selection, stand up for your selves, take action and complain. 


To all C Eng who are retired, managers, sales persons, lecturers i.e. not practicing real engineering, you do not pass the EC^UK Spec. You should do as I did, resign from EC^UK.
I Eng & C Eng is a starting grade which will progress, it is only a present day competence. If you do not keep up to date with technology – CPD then resign.

 
Times are changing C Eng want to do away with I Eng, because most C Eng only carry out I Eng tasks.

 
We should chase out the Ludites and make our PEI open to all who make the grade or who are interested in our technologies..
PEIs are for promoting the profession and communicating.
They should not be engineering qualification boards.

 
Your CV and your qualifications are all that are really needed to be recruited, not box ticking with C Eng.
For those not having the chance to polish the seats of universities, then the PEIs should help them get equivalent recognition.

 
If you have the experience then ask for Fellow I Eng MIET, this will get you past most C Eng box ticking.

 
As for our overseas members, do not get embroiled in archaic English traditions, stay MIET, but start to get your own country to register engineers. Get international recognition if you are global.

 
Who wants to be registered PE second class!
PEIs should not use amateur assessors, should not ask for references and should not decide on a person’s future after 10 years or more of study and effort, solely based on gut feeling and prejudice.

 
The ideal engineer has been trained via an apprenticeship and university to BSc followed by a paid master degree.
It is the C Eng without an apprenticeship that should be considered second class.

PEIs should promote the profession and inform members of the various advancements in all our global technologies.
IET is a UK based organisation, let’s promote UK technological achievements.
This discussion has been going on, in this forum, for over 40 years, that is why the Royal Chartered Institute IIE was formed; to bring equality into the profession – it failed, it amalgamated with IEE; I Mech E closed the door on us.


Now is the time for change.
(Does any working engineer really have time to waste reading all these blogs?)

 

• Is this certificate still up to date?

John Gowman MIET- no further comments.

Re: ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL IN STATUS
Posted by Peter Miller on Jan 13, 2017 2:05 pm
Another difference is that IEng is a grade that is in terminal decline and unlikely to be around in 10 years time.
Peter,
JG : That is because IET cannot attract up and coming engineers that have not had the chance to go to university. The typical I Eng today is a contract worker that has great difficulty finding fixed term contracts, he does not have the means to idle at the fac. He has to do 8 years night studies after a full day’s work & transport.
See Re: Successful CEng appeal possible?
Posted by John Gowman on Nov 24, 2016 11:08 am

Peter,

Yes they are equal in status both are PE, they are different in competences.

No C Eng could do an I Eng task and vice – versa, unless he has been I Eng first, and even then he has probably lost some competence.

They are both needed as are managers, technicians and technologists.

It takes all types to complete a project.

In a PEI run by C Eng electrical PEs there is not much hope for change.

It is the PEIs and IET that are failing
The UK has no engineers register .
Engineers are legally responsible for their work, so they should be registered to accept that responsibility.
I Eng & C Eng are status not responsibility grades. I have been responsible for C Eng and uni profs, as well as scientists & technologists.
We should ask the question in the UK - What is the reason for PEIs, is it registration of C Eng or is it to promote the profession?
Note :
The EC^UK issues certificates to its registrants for their particular registration, they advise I Eng to add this statement below to their certificate when justifying their status for work or civil representations.


No one can refute this statement issued by your registration authority.

Is it up to date now.

Statement:
This document defines The Status Of 
A Corporate member of the Institution of  PEI XXXXXXX(IET in this case)
(Registered with the Engineering Council Register)
Joe Reginald Smith Reg N° O12356
Being a professional engineer holds a title recognised by the Government of the United Kingdom 
As falling within the scope of Directive 89/48/EEC
The directive is implemented for engineering in the UK by Statutory Instrument 
(SI) 1991 N° 824
(( The European Communities (Register of Professional Qualifications)
Regulations 1991))
The Engineering Council is recognised by the UK Government as the national representative body of the engineering profession, working in partnership with other engineering institutions, and is a Designated Authority,
Under the Implementing regulations for Directive 89/48/EEC.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The EC^UK recognises all professional engineers.


To all would be C Eng who are changing (not progressing) from I Eng, if you are refused C Eng, ask HQ for justification; any assessor who refuses C Eng at interview should be made to justify his action with sound proof.


To I Engs wanting to be registered C Eng for professional reasons i.e. to pass job selection, stand up for your selves, take action and complain. 


To all C Eng who are retired, managers, sales persons, lecturers i.e. not practicing real engineering, you do not pass the EC^UK Spec. You should do as I did, resign from EC^UK.
I Eng & C Eng is a starting grade which will progress, it is only a present day competence. If you do not keep up to date with technology – CPD then resign.

 
Times are changing C Eng want to do away with I Eng, because most C Eng only carry out I Eng tasks.

 
We should chase out the Ludites and make our PEI open to all who make the grade or who are interested in our technologies..
PEIs are for promoting the profession and communicating.
They should not be engineering qualification boards.

 
Your CV and your qualifications are all that are really needed to be recruited, not box ticking with C Eng.
For those not having the chance to polish the seats of universities, then the PEIs should help them get equivalent recognition.

 
If you have the experience then ask for Fellow I Eng MIET, this will get you past most C Eng box ticking.

 
As for our overseas members, do not get embroiled in archaic English traditions, stay MIET, but start to get your own country to register engineers. Get international recognition if you are global.

 
Who wants to be registered PE second class!
PEIs should not use amateur assessors, should not ask for references and should not decide on a person’s future after 10 years or more of study and effort, solely based on gut feeling and prejudice.

 
The ideal engineer has been trained via an apprenticeship and university to BSc followed by a paid master degree.
It is the C Eng without an apprenticeship that should be considered second class.

PEIs should promote the profession and inform members of the various advancements in all our global technologies.
IET is a UK based organisation, let’s promote UK technological achievements.
This discussion has been going on, in this forum, for over 40 years, that is why the Royal Chartered Institute IIE was formed; to bring equality into the profession – it failed, it amalgamated with IEE; I Mech E closed the door on us.


Now is the time for change.
(Does any working engineer really have time to waste reading all these blogs?)

 

• Is this certificate still up to date?

John Gowman MIET- no further comments.

Re: ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL IN STATUS
Posted by Peter Miller on Jan 13, 2017 2:05 pm
Another difference is that IEng is a grade that is in terminal decline and unlikely to be around in 10 years time.
Peter,
JG : That is because IET cannot attract up and coming engineers that have not had the chance to go to university. The typical I Eng today is a contract worker that has great difficulty finding fixed term contracts, he does not have the means to idle at the fac. He has to do 8 years night studies after a full day’s work & transport.
See Re: Successful CEng appeal possible?
Posted by John Gowman on Nov 24, 2016 11:08 am

Peter,

Yes they are equal in status both are PE, they are different in competences.

No C Eng could do an I Eng task and vice – versa, unless he has been I Eng first, and even then he has probably lost some competence.

They are both needed as are managers, technicians and technologists.

It takes all types to complete a project.

In a PEI run by C Eng electrical PEs there is not much hope for change.

It is the PEIs and IET that are failing
The UK has no engineers register .
Engineers are legally responsible for their work, so they should be registered to accept that responsibility.
I Eng & C Eng are status not responsibility grades. I have been responsible for C Eng and uni profs, as well as scientists & technologists.
We should ask the question in the UK - What is the reason for PEIs, is it registration of C Eng or is it to promote the profession?
Note :
The EC^UK issues certificates to its registrants for their particular registration, they advise I Eng to add this statement below to their certificate when justifying their status for work or civil representations.


No one can refute this statement issued by your registration authority.

Is it up to date now.

Statement:
This document defines The Status Of 
A Corporate member of the Institution of  PEI XXXXXXX(IET in this case)
(Registered with the Engineering Council Register)
Joe Reginald Smith Reg N° O12356
Being a professional engineer holds a title recognised by the Government of the United Kingdom 
As falling within the scope of Directive 89/48/EEC
The directive is implemented for engineering in the UK by Statutory Instrument 
(SI) 1991 N° 824
(( The European Communities (Register of Professional Qualifications)
Regulations 1991))
The Engineering Council is recognised by the UK Government as the national representative body of the engineering profession, working in partnership with other engineering institutions, and is a Designated Authority,
Under the Implementing regulations for Directive 89/48/EEC.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The EC^UK recognises all professional engineers.


To all would be C Eng who are changing (not progressing) from I Eng, if you are refused C Eng, ask HQ for justification; any assessor who refuses C Eng at interview should be made to justify his action with sound proof.


To I Engs wanting to be registered C Eng for professional reasons i.e. to pass job selection, stand up for your selves, take action and complain. 


To all C Eng who are retired, managers, sales persons, lecturers i.e. not practicing real engineering, you do not pass the EC^UK Spec. You should do as I did, resign from EC^UK.
I Eng & C Eng is a starting grade which will progress, it is only a present day competence. If you do not keep up to date with technology – CPD then resign.

 
Times are changing C Eng want to do away with I Eng, because most C Eng only carry out I Eng tasks.

 
We should chase out the Ludites and make our PEI open to all who make the grade or who are interested in our technologies..
PEIs are for promoting the profession and communicating.
They should not be engineering qualification boards.

 
Your CV and your qualifications are all that are really needed to be recruited, not box ticking with C Eng.
For those not having the chance to polish the seats of universities, then the PEIs should help them get equivalent recognition.

 
If you have the experience then ask for Fellow I Eng MIET, this will get you past most C Eng box ticking.

 
As for our overseas members, do not get embroiled in archaic English traditions, stay MIET, but start to get your own country to register engineers. Get international recognition if you are global.

 
Who wants to be registered PE second class!
PEIs should not use amateur assessors, should not ask for references and should not decide on a person’s future after 10 years or more of study and effort, solely based on gut feeling and prejudice.

 
The ideal engineer has been trained via an apprenticeship and university to BSc followed by a paid master degree.
It is the C Eng without an apprenticeship that should be considered second class.

PEIs should promote the profession and inform members of the various advancements in all our global technologies.
IET is a UK based organisation, let’s promote UK technological achievements.
This discussion has been going on, in this forum, for over 40 years, that is why the Royal Chartered Institute IIE was formed; to bring equality into the profession – it failed, it amalgamated with IEE; I Mech E closed the door on us.


Now is the time for change.
(Does any working engineer really have time to waste reading all these blogs?)

 

• Is this certificate still up to date?

John Gowman MIET- no further comments.

Re: ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL IN STATUS
Posted by Peter Miller on Jan 13, 2017 2:05 pm
Another difference is that IEng is a grade that is in terminal decline and unlikely to be around in 10 years time.
Peter,
JG : That is because IET cannot attract up and coming engineers that have not had the chance to go to university. The typical I Eng today is a contract worker that has great difficulty finding fixed term contracts, he does not have the means to idle at the fac. He has to do 8 years night studies after a full day’s work & transport.
See Re: Successful CEng appeal possible?
Posted by John Gowman on Nov 24, 2016 11:08 am

Peter,

Yes they are equal in status both are PE, they are different in competences.

No C Eng could do an I Eng task and vice – versa, unless he has been I Eng first, and even then he has probably lost some competence.

They are both needed as are managers, technicians and technologists.

It takes all types to complete a project.

In a PEI run by C Eng electrical PEs there is not much hope for change.

It is the PEIs and IET that are failing
The UK has no engineers register .
Engineers are legally responsible for their work, so they should be registered to accept that responsibility.
I Eng & C Eng are status not responsibility grades. I have been responsible for C Eng and uni profs, as well as scientists & technologists.
We should ask the question in the UK - What is the reason for PEIs, is it registration of C Eng or is it to promote the profession?
Note :
The EC^UK issues certificates to its registrants for their particular registration, they advise I Eng to add this statement below to their certificate when justifying their status for work or civil representations.


No one can refute this statement issued by your registration authority.

Is it up to date now.

Statement:
This document defines The Status Of 
A Corporate member of the Institution of  PEI XXXXXXX(IET in this case)
(Registered with the Engineering Council Register)
Joe Reginald Smith Reg N° O12356
Being a professional engineer holds a title recognised by the Government of the United Kingdom 
As falling within the scope of Directive 89/48/EEC
The directive is implemented for engineering in the UK by Statutory Instrument 
(SI) 1991 N° 824
(( The European Communities (Register of Professional Qualifications)
Regulations 1991))
The Engineering Council is recognised by the UK Government as the national representative body of the engineering profession, working in partnership with other engineering institutions, and is a Designated Authority,
Under the Implementing regulations for Directive 89/48/EEC.
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The EC^UK recognises all professional engineers.


To all would be C Eng who are changing (not progressing) from I Eng, if you are refused C Eng, ask HQ for justification; any assessor who refuses C Eng at interview should be made to justify his action with sound proof.


To I Engs wanting to be registered C Eng for professional reasons i.e. to pass job selection, stand up for your selves, take action and complain. 


To all C Eng who are retired, managers, sales persons, lecturers i.e. not practicing real engineering, you do not pass the EC^UK Spec. You should do as I did, resign from EC^UK.
I Eng & C Eng is a starting grade which will progress, it is only a present day competence. If you do not keep up to date with technology – CPD then resign.

 
Times are changing C Eng want to do away with I Eng, because most C Eng only carry out I Eng tasks.

 
We should chase out the Ludites and make our PEI open to all who make the grade or who are interested in our technologies..
PEIs are for promoting the profession and communicating.
They should not be engineering qualification boards.

 
Your CV and your qualifications are all that are really needed to be recruited, not box ticking with C Eng.
For those not having the chance to polish the seats of universities, then the PEIs should help them get equivalent recognition.

 
If you have the experience then ask for Fellow I Eng MIET, this will get you past most C Eng box ticking.

 
As for our overseas members, do not get embroiled in archaic English traditions, stay MIET, but start to get your own country to register engineers. Get international recognition if you are global.

 
Who wants to be registered PE second class!
PEIs should not use amateur assessors, should not ask for references and should not decide on a person’s future after 10 years or more of study and effort, solely based on gut feeling and prejudice.

 
The ideal engineer has been trained via an apprenticeship and university to BSc followed by a paid master degree.
It is the C Eng without an apprenticeship that should be considered second class.

PEIs should promote the profession and inform members of the various advancements in all our global technologies.
IET is a UK based organisation, let’s promote UK technological achievements.
This discussion has been going on, in this forum, for over 40 years, that is why the Royal Chartered Institute IIE was formed; to bring equality into the profession – it failed, it amalgamated with IEE; I Mech E closed the door on us.


Now is the time for change.
(Does any working engineer really have time to waste reading all these blogs?)

 

• Is this certificate still up to date?

John Gowman MIET- no further comments.