ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL IN STATUS

An I Eng has a solid grounding in industry, codes and practices a MEng C Eng has a proven practical experience in report writing, advanced mathemetics and a specialisation now adays an IT programme that takes up to 18 months to master. both require responsibility and innovative solutions to problems that arrive.

 

Note that innovation is rare today in engineering as codes have to be respected. I created a document management of the companies requirements in codes , I catalogued over 2000 codes! 

Completely disagree again with this very strange statement. (Reminds me of that famous apocryphal quote from the 1890s "Everything that can be invented has been invented".)  Take a simple example: there are no codes of practice yet for fully automated vehicles, people are busy writing them. I work in safety engineering for the rail industry, having worked in innovation in the rail industry for many years. If you travel on (say) Thameslink your safety is in the hands of SIL4 signalling equipment for which, at the time, no exact code of practice existed. We developed the equipment, developed the safety argument, and I now sit on the industry committee that is producing the code of practice for this equipment that already exists. (This CoP will then cover future installations.)


So the example I always use to distinguish between IEng and CEng is: IEngs know the CoP, know how to apply them, know their limitations, and can apply them in sitauations they haven't come across before. CEngs write the Codes of Practice!


I am writing this on a laptop, connected to an external monitor, uploaded over a fibre broadband link, none of which could have been in my home at this power and this level of affordability 10 years ago. Innovation is alive and well. The Codes of Practice just stop it killing us, which is nice. (And mean my monitor works with my laptop, and my latop works with my internet connection...may seem obvious now but some of us remember the 1980s!)

 

Both I Eng & C Eng are important on a project and are complementary.

Peter, 

I am an I
Eng by default, I should have been C Eng a long time ago, but the
UK system is biased against people such as me.

I wrote an
ASME code for the first sea water, power plant cooling circuit,
made from PEHD. ASME wished me good luck.

I wrote
the Irish natural gas pipe work codes for the Eire Government? I
can and have worked to ASME "U Stamp" I believe there are only a
few that can do that in the UK.

Finite
element analysis, Motecarlo probability calcs, 3D Integration , new
IT codes of stress analysis were within my capabilities, I do not
like mathematics, so I do inovative engineering. I have a BA in
mathematics, and two approved masters in nuclear physics and
cryogenic engineering - the UK says I am I Eng as I have no
references. I have been I eng for 30 years and never met a MIET
 of any category.

I work in
complete teams, everyone is independent but dependent on the
other.

My nuclear
physics callculating doctors do not want to and can not do the
besic engineering to feed them the information to calculate.

My Master
student is not yet competent to work on his own but he has combined
engineering with physics. His Master was estimed PHD
material.

* I Eng =
Eur Ing

* C Eng
(UK) = Eur Ing

Does Eur
Ing = C Eng (UK) where's the logic?

The answer
is that C Eng is a UK effort to give status to mid career
engineers.

C Eng is
abused by engineers wanting status, by engineers no longer working
like you or me ( I'm retired forcibly for economic reasons),
 at 67 I'm on call for a new challenge in the UK where there
are no UK experts in my field.

I'm
disillusioned with C Eng but you have nothing better.

I want to
see all young PEs of all levels and origins male or female given
the chance by a PEI to work their way through the multitude of
systems and opportunities to make the grade they feel best at.
Stepping stones is a good formula, get a grade, get experience and
then decide what and where you want to do and go.

We had
this with IIE.

The
bickering between the 40+ UK PEIs will njot permit this
objective.

Most C Eng
do not want open access anyway, they want prestige and
exclusivity.

Your
attitude is not that of the reclusive C Eng. we need to encourage
the 98% of Technicians and I Eng that do not see PEIs as a
worthwhile investment.

If the UK
allowed all I Eng (BSc) to be registered Eur Ing, then we would
possibly open the flood gates to recruiting.

The
Germans have Technicians, Engineers and Docter Engineer, the French
have nothing except good salaries.

If not -
 BSc Fellow MIET would be better accepted by I Eng working
towards C Eng.

This
debate has been going on since Tech Eng was formed in the 1980s
when I was founder member of ITEME which had mainly railway
engineers as members.

May be
BREXIT will call on the PEIs to re- examine their "raison d'être".
You have a "H" of a challenge; yesterday Renault threatened to pull
out of the UK, and all our EU legislation will disappear with no UK
legislation to replace it = chaos.

I am
upsetting many C eng and IET with this blog, they now threaten to
discipline me.

No right
to free speach, must not criticise the establishment.

Everything
you have described can be done by an experienced I Eng. in my team
that design the last EPR most of the engineers were I Eng types
from Africa and Eastern Europe. we set up the UK EPR design.

I Eng and
C Eng are first foot on the ladder grades, not grades defining your
competences, they are grades that allow people attain your
competences by what ever route they chose. My colleague, Oxford
MEng refused to do anything except pure engineering, UK Spec did
not interest him; like me he made things that worked or things that
worked work better.

I am
totally independent in my work, no one could do my task, management
did not interest me. People call on me to sort out problems, I
would have been called a consultant before, but consultants are
banned in my line of work, and independent nuclear consultants are
called spies.

So what
can the active PEs in IET do to recover the lost 98% of
disillusionned PEs?

I risk to
be banned for my comments, but I have nothing to lose. I have
resigned from ECUK as I'm retired, I no longer receive E&T what
can they do?

What do
people actually want from PEIs?

Good luck
facing BREXIT .

John
Gowman MIET 

Peter, 

I am an I
Eng by default, I should have been C Eng a long time ago, but the
UK system is biased against people such as me.

I wrote an
ASME code for the first sea water, power plant cooling circuit,
made from PEHD. ASME wished me good luck.

I wrote
the Irish natural gas pipe work codes for the Eire Government? I
can and have worked to ASME "U Stamp" I believe there are only a
few that can do that in the UK.

Finite
element analysis, Motecarlo probability calcs, 3D Integration , new
IT codes of stress analysis were within my capabilities, I do not
like mathematics, so I do inovative engineering. I have a BA in
mathematics, and two approved masters in nuclear physics and
cryogenic engineering - the UK says I am I Eng as I have no
references. I have been I eng for 30 years and never met a MIET
 of any category.

I work in
complete teams, everyone is independent but dependent on the
other.

My nuclear
physics callculating doctors do not want to and can not do the
besic engineering to feed them the information to calculate.

My Master
student is not yet competent to work on his own but he has combined
engineering with physics. His Master was estimed PHD
material.

* I Eng =
Eur Ing

* C Eng
(UK) = Eur Ing

Does Eur
Ing = C Eng (UK) where's the logic?

The answer
is that C Eng is a UK effort to give status to mid career
engineers.

C Eng is
abused by engineers wanting status, by engineers no longer working
like you or me ( I'm retired forcibly for economic reasons),
 at 67 I'm on call for a new challenge in the UK where there
are no UK experts in my field.

I'm
disillusioned with C Eng but you have nothing better.

I want to
see all young PEs of all levels and origins male or female given
the chance by a PEI to work their way through the multitude of
systems and opportunities to make the grade they feel best at.
Stepping stones is a good formula, get a grade, get experience and
then decide what and where you want to do and go.

We had
this with IIE.

The
bickering between the 40+ UK PEIs will njot permit this
objective.

Most C Eng
do not want open access anyway, they want prestige and
exclusivity.

Your
attitude is not that of the reclusive C Eng. we need to encourage
the 98% of Technicians and I Eng that do not see PEIs as a
worthwhile investment.

If the UK
allowed all I Eng (BSc) to be registered Eur Ing, then we would
possibly open the flood gates to recruiting.

The
Germans have Technicians, Engineers and Docter Engineer, the French
have nothing except good salaries.

If not -
 BSc Fellow MIET would be better accepted by I Eng working
towards C Eng.

This
debate has been going on since Tech Eng was formed in the 1980s
when I was founder member of ITEME which had mainly railway
engineers as members.

May be
BREXIT will call on the PEIs to re- examine their "raison d'être".
You have a "H" of a challenge; yesterday Renault threatened to pull
out of the UK, and all our EU legislation will disappear with no UK
legislation to replace it = chaos.

I am
upsetting many C eng and IET with this blog, they now threaten to
discipline me.

No right
to free speach, must not criticise the establishment.

Everything
you have described can be done by an experienced I Eng. in my team
that design the last EPR most of the engineers were I Eng types
from Africa and Eastern Europe. we set up the UK EPR design.

I Eng and
C Eng are first foot on the ladder grades, not grades defining your
competences, they are grades that allow people attain your
competences by what ever route they chose. My colleague, Oxford
MEng refused to do anything except pure engineering, UK Spec did
not interest him; like me he made things that worked or things that
worked work better.

I am
totally independent in my work, no one could do my task, management
did not interest me. People call on me to sort out problems, I
would have been called a consultant before, but consultants are
banned in my line of work, and independent nuclear consultants are
called spies.

So what
can the active PEs in IET do to recover the lost 98% of
disillusionned PEs?

I risk to
be banned for my comments, but I have nothing to lose. I have
resigned from ECUK as I'm retired, I no longer receive E&T what
can they do?

What do
people actually want from PEIs?

Good luck
facing BREXIT .

John
Gowman MIET 

Peter, 

I am an I
Eng by default, I should have been C Eng a long time ago, but the
UK system is biased against people such as me.

I wrote an
ASME code for the first sea water, power plant cooling circuit,
made from PEHD. ASME wished me good luck.

I wrote
the Irish natural gas pipe work codes for the Eire Government? I
can and have worked to ASME "U Stamp" I believe there are only a
few that can do that in the UK.

Finite
element analysis, Motecarlo probability calcs, 3D Integration , new
IT codes of stress analysis were within my capabilities, I do not
like mathematics, so I do inovative engineering. I have a BA in
mathematics, and two approved masters in nuclear physics and
cryogenic engineering - the UK says I am I Eng as I have no
references. I have been I eng for 30 years and never met a MIET
 of any category.

I work in
complete teams, everyone is independent but dependent on the
other.

My nuclear
physics callculating doctors do not want to and can not do the
besic engineering to feed them the information to calculate.

My Master
student is not yet competent to work on his own but he has combined
engineering with physics. His Master was estimed PHD
material.

* I Eng =
Eur Ing

* C Eng
(UK) = Eur Ing

Does Eur
Ing = C Eng (UK) where's the logic?

The answer
is that C Eng is a UK effort to give status to mid career
engineers.

C Eng is
abused by engineers wanting status, by engineers no longer working
like you or me ( I'm retired forcibly for economic reasons),
 at 67 I'm on call for a new challenge in the UK where there
are no UK experts in my field.

I'm
disillusioned with C Eng but you have nothing better.

I want to
see all young PEs of all levels and origins male or female given
the chance by a PEI to work their way through the multitude of
systems and opportunities to make the grade they feel best at.
Stepping stones is a good formula, get a grade, get experience and
then decide what and where you want to do and go.

We had
this with IIE.

The
bickering between the 40+ UK PEIs will njot permit this
objective.

Most C Eng
do not want open access anyway, they want prestige and
exclusivity.

Your
attitude is not that of the reclusive C Eng. we need to encourage
the 98% of Technicians and I Eng that do not see PEIs as a
worthwhile investment.

If the UK
allowed all I Eng (BSc) to be registered Eur Ing, then we would
possibly open the flood gates to recruiting.

The
Germans have Technicians, Engineers and Docter Engineer, the French
have nothing except good salaries.

If not -
 BSc Fellow MIET would be better accepted by I Eng working
towards C Eng.

This
debate has been going on since Tech Eng was formed in the 1980s
when I was founder member of ITEME which had mainly railway
engineers as members.

May be
BREXIT will call on the PEIs to re- examine their "raison d'être".
You have a "H" of a challenge; yesterday Renault threatened to pull
out of the UK, and all our EU legislation will disappear with no UK
legislation to replace it = chaos.

I am
upsetting many C eng and IET with this blog, they now threaten to
discipline me.

No right
to free speach, must not criticise the establishment.

Everything
you have described can be done by an experienced I Eng. in my team
that design the last EPR most of the engineers were I Eng types
from Africa and Eastern Europe. we set up the UK EPR design.

I Eng and
C Eng are first foot on the ladder grades, not grades defining your
competences, they are grades that allow people attain your
competences by what ever route they chose. My colleague, Oxford
MEng refused to do anything except pure engineering, UK Spec did
not interest him; like me he made things that worked or things that
worked work better.

I am
totally independent in my work, no one could do my task, management
did not interest me. People call on me to sort out problems, I
would have been called a consultant before, but consultants are
banned in my line of work, and independent nuclear consultants are
called spies.

So what
can the active PEs in IET do to recover the lost 98% of
disillusionned PEs?

I risk to
be banned for my comments, but I have nothing to lose. I have
resigned from ECUK as I'm retired, I no longer receive E&T what
can they do?

What do
people actually want from PEIs?

Good luck
facing BREXIT .

John
Gowman MIET 

Peter, 

I am an I
Eng by default, I should have been C Eng a long time ago, but the
UK system is biased against people such as me.

I wrote an
ASME code for the first sea water, power plant cooling circuit,
made from PEHD. ASME wished me good luck.

I wrote
the Irish natural gas pipe work codes for the Eire Government? I
can and have worked to ASME "U Stamp" I believe there are only a
few that can do that in the UK.

Finite
element analysis, Motecarlo probability calcs, 3D Integration , new
IT codes of stress analysis were within my capabilities, I do not
like mathematics, so I do inovative engineering. I have a BA in
mathematics, and two approved masters in nuclear physics and
cryogenic engineering - the UK says I am I Eng as I have no
references. I have been I eng for 30 years and never met a MIET
 of any category.

I work in
complete teams, everyone is independent but dependent on the
other.

My nuclear
physics callculating doctors do not want to and can not do the
besic engineering to feed them the information to calculate.

My Master
student is not yet competent to work on his own but he has combined
engineering with physics. His Master was estimed PHD
material.

* I Eng =
Eur Ing

* C Eng
(UK) = Eur Ing

Does Eur
Ing = C Eng (UK) where's the logic?

The answer
is that C Eng is a UK effort to give status to mid career
engineers.

C Eng is
abused by engineers wanting status, by engineers no longer working
like you or me ( I'm retired forcibly for economic reasons),
 at 67 I'm on call for a new challenge in the UK where there
are no UK experts in my field.

I'm
disillusioned with C Eng but you have nothing better.

I want to
see all young PEs of all levels and origins male or female given
the chance by a PEI to work their way through the multitude of
systems and opportunities to make the grade they feel best at.
Stepping stones is a good formula, get a grade, get experience and
then decide what and where you want to do and go.

We had
this with IIE.

The
bickering between the 40+ UK PEIs will njot permit this
objective.

Most C Eng
do not want open access anyway, they want prestige and
exclusivity.

Your
attitude is not that of the reclusive C Eng. we need to encourage
the 98% of Technicians and I Eng that do not see PEIs as a
worthwhile investment.

If the UK
allowed all I Eng (BSc) to be registered Eur Ing, then we would
possibly open the flood gates to recruiting.

The
Germans have Technicians, Engineers and Docter Engineer, the French
have nothing except good salaries.

If not -
 BSc Fellow MIET would be better accepted by I Eng working
towards C Eng.

This
debate has been going on since Tech Eng was formed in the 1980s
when I was founder member of ITEME which had mainly railway
engineers as members.

May be
BREXIT will call on the PEIs to re- examine their "raison d'être".
You have a "H" of a challenge; yesterday Renault threatened to pull
out of the UK, and all our EU legislation will disappear with no UK
legislation to replace it = chaos.

I am
upsetting many C eng and IET with this blog, they now threaten to
discipline me.

No right
to free speach, must not criticise the establishment.

Everything
you have described can be done by an experienced I Eng. in my team
that design the last EPR most of the engineers were I Eng types
from Africa and Eastern Europe. we set up the UK EPR design.

I Eng and
C Eng are first foot on the ladder grades, not grades defining your
competences, they are grades that allow people attain your
competences by what ever route they chose. My colleague, Oxford
MEng refused to do anything except pure engineering, UK Spec did
not interest him; like me he made things that worked or things that
worked work better.

I am
totally independent in my work, no one could do my task, management
did not interest me. People call on me to sort out problems, I
would have been called a consultant before, but consultants are
banned in my line of work, and independent nuclear consultants are
called spies.

So what
can the active PEs in IET do to recover the lost 98% of
disillusionned PEs?

I risk to
be banned for my comments, but I have nothing to lose. I have
resigned from ECUK as I'm retired, I no longer receive E&T what
can they do?

What do
people actually want from PEIs?

Good luck
facing BREXIT .

John
Gowman MIET