ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL IN STATUS

http://www.theiet.org/policy/collaboration/eng2016/index.cfm  I suggest that this report is required reading for those who wish to contribute further to this debate. The report should perhaps be the subject of a different forum thread? I have never met Prof Uff and didn’t contribute directly to the report, but many of the issues debated at length in these forums are addressed at strategic level. I commend him on what I consider to be an excellent report. This report is aimed at the UK, although international practice and implications are considered.  In many ways the report supports some aspects of John Gowman’s argument that don’t relate to his own personal issues, this is perhaps unsurprising given that he is one of many people who contributed towards creating an IET including IMechE (and potentially ICE in due course) who were frustrated. I wasn’t one of those, but strongly supported the idea.    

 

In so far as the report touches upon the question framed here, I would support his proposal of Registered Engineer and Chartered Engineer, with a two suggested caveats.

 

All Chartered Engineers should first be Registered Engineers, then demonstrate for a reasonable period of time some additional performance. Retention should also require some form of supportive and relatively “light touch” review process at appropriate times such as career transitions or time intervals.

 
That Chartered Engineer recognition should be readily achievable within less than 10 years to those all those who enter the profession by whatever pathway and subsequently demonstrate the application of a graduate level of engineering understanding.  There is no added value in my opinion differentiating between an “Engineer” and  “Technologist” in a UK context. 

Hi Roy,


Many thanks for the heads up - I'm feeling deeply embarrassed that I hadn't read this report before now!


I agree that this particular thread is probably not the right place to discuss it, except for those points which directly relate to the relative status of CEng / IEng. 


I look forward to reading this properly over the weekend, but I am already intruiged by the statement "With regard to the numbers of registered engineers, it has been calculated that this represents only some 51% of engineers eligible for Chartered status and that the proportion of those eligible for Incorporated status drops to 5%" (referenced from the Engineering Council). I would have thought that the percentages were actually very considerably lower than this, but I have to admit I don't have evidence for this beyond very back-of-the-envelope calculations and potentially unrepresentative experience of engineers I meet.


Thanks again,


Andy

Andy, it only came to my attention today early today.

Not forgetting, the public perception that an Engineer is the guy with a toolbox who turns up to service your boiler, or install a phone line or fix the lift.

Engineer should have hands on ability to fix something, not only design, in current system very rare that Engineer can fix the boiler or machine. In other professional like medical doctor, the specialist are the one who has the best skill to do operations, but Engineers are not. Accountants are able to make budget, balance sheet and audit etc.

In the past Polytechnic trained Engineers has the better hands on ability.
Last 2 decads the whole world 's trend is change the practical higher education to only focus on

Engineer should have hands on ability to fix something, not only design and management. I agree that the system went wrong. Even the Engineering Council requirements went wrong, too much emphasis on management and communication skills. The practical elements are not sufficient. Engineer should has the ability to fix a machine or lay the cables, like other professional such as medical doctor, the best practitioner are the one has better skill to do operations or Accountants​ are able to make balance sheet, budgets and audits. In addition, medical doctor is able to do or practice all nurse job. Can Engineers perform technicians' job?

Now a lot of professional Engineers are in management position instead of Engineer position.

Also the reform of higher education went wrong globally. In the past, there are Polytechnics that provided practice Engineer course, graduates are able to work in workshop or do welding. Now all change to universities, course are more theory, but very limited workshops or lab works. Academic wise, I cannot see much different between 3 years Engineering degree and 4 years M Engineering. The major difference are in management. I think for Engineer training practical is more important than management, as you can learn management by job and by CPD later on when career progressive​. Therefore, under currently IEng skill, they are all qualified professional Engineers.

I think that the term Engineer as a profession is very wide. Many employers add label to the term Engineer.

For example Design Engineer, Systems Engineer, Integration Engineer, Network Engineer, Broadcast Engineer and that is in addition to the Mechanical Engineer, Electrical Engineer, 

Computer Engineer, Water Engineer etc etc.

This provides more clarity to the professional activities one is practicing.

The specialization or multiple specializations allow the professional to be an expert in their field. One goes to a mechanic to repair the engine and to engineer to design an engine.


When I look at UK SPEC for I.Eng I see a standard that for example in USA or Canada is Engineer suitable to be licensed as P.E or P.Eng and in Europe as Eur Ing.

In my humble view IEng while not equal to CEng is a Professional Engineer as well. This is unique to UK.

IEng is expected to design, develop, manufacture, commission, operate and maintain products, equipment, processes and services; 


In other countries there is no need for two professional Engineer categories. They prefer the Technician, Technologist and Engineer standard.

They have one category for Professional Engineer. In UK there are two.

Other countries like Canada,Australia, Ireland  created another category for an Associate Engineer, for Technologist who usually study Engineering Technology degree vs Engineer who study Engineering degree.. 


At this time UK doesn't really have an exact match for the Technologist professional so ENgC  mapped I.Eng to the Technologist category internationally.

In Ireland one studies a bachelors honours degree in Engineering Technology to be Associate Engineer or what is in Australia or Canada a Technologist.



Moshe Michael Waserman  


BTechEE, MCGI, CEng MBCS, MIET, FInstLM, CBT.

Pricipal Engineer at Verizon.