Have Faith in the IET

Congratulations Paul! Well done and full marks for perseverence. Enthusiasm goes a long way in talking to the young and you seem to have bags of it.I wish you success in your future involvement with the IET.

Best regards

Hamish (now having completed over 60 yrs of membership and still carrying the flag)

Congratulations Paul, as someone that actively supports candidates working toward professional registration, it is good to see the success stories - particularly from people that have taken a different path - it shows that with a lot of commitment, time and CPD anything really is possible :)

Hi Paul,


Many congratulations, and many thanks for posting this story. We need more stories like this - I am passionate about the fact that the beauty of the CEng (and IEng and EngTech) processes is that it reflects what you are actually doing and have achieved right now, not the path you happened to follow 20, 30, 40 years ago.  


And I can strongly recommend volunteering as a PRA, of all the volunteering roles I have done for the IET (and there have been a lot!) it is by far the most satisfying, precisely because - as you say - you can help show whatever people's background and career path they have the potential to get to registration.


I like the quote from the film Ratatouille: "Not everyone can become a great artist; but a great artist can come from anywhere".


Cheers,


Andy

Well done.

I hope the IET may take note of my post here. I found out yesterday(thanks to Moshe Waserman) that up until 2013 I could have applied for a CGLI GCGI on the the strength of my being an IEng. Sob!Sob! I now know what it must feel like to pull a winning lottery ticket out of your wallet only to find it has expired!

I had looked into that qualification about 14 years ago but had seen no indication of the IEng connection. Certainly the IET did not advertise this fact, which would have allowed me to point out that I had the equivalent of a BEng degree. Here in the US it is extremely difficult to explain foreign qualifications. I have always explained my City & Guilds was not a 4 year degree but more than a 2 year degree.

I assume I am not the only person who is an IEng without a degree (I have a CGLI Full Tech Certificate). What are the chances of the IET petitioning or negotiating with City & Guilds to do a 'one-off' for IEngs without degrees and advertise it strongly? They could go one further by using their computer databases to add it to the annual subscription renewal! Both organisations would make money(I would happily pay the IET a commission for organising things) and the IET especially, would earn itself a lot of good will and positive thoughts from its members.

I am going to post this on a new thread in the hope that some with power and authority within the IET may feel moved to help IEngs in the same position that I am.

Warmest congratulations Paul, a well-deserved achievement.


I share some similarities with your experience having started my "career" as a humble metal basher (of stainless steel urinals and toilets for prisons and the like!), unable to attend University (my folks told me to get a job and contribute to the household which I understood and didn't begrudge, after all "university just wasn't 'done' in our family"). So I read lots, practiced much, learned from others and my mistakes, and over the ensuing years, climbed the ladder, fire-fighting and problem solving as you did, proving my worth as a competent and successful engineering product designer. Ironically, despite lacking academic qualifications, I have now also lectured at some of the best engineering universities in the world including Cambridge, Loughborough, Helsinki, Taipei, Rochester NY, Massachusetts, etc. on my approach, to engineering product design to aspiring engineers and designers.


I only joined the IET last year (2016) though I toyed with the idea for years (decades actually), filling in forms and the like several times, although in the back of my mind I harboured the (false) belief you needed a degree. I have nothing but the highest regard for the IET and that continues to grow! It is an amazing PEI.


And just this week, I got the news I have long desired - and boy, am I extremely happy; no, I am elated and feel more accomplished now than from any of the projects I have contributed to the success of, to learn that my application for CEng was successful.

Well done Paul, I hope that your story inspires others.    

 

Mark it’s also great that you eventually had the confidence to seek recognition and have been successful.

 

I don’t know when your capability and performance first passed over a threshold appropriate for recognition by a professional body, but your post suggests that it was a long time ago. From the perspective of engineering as whole, it is unfortunate that you didn’t choose to engage then. As I see it, the role of a professional community should be to recognise professional  practitioners early, nurture their ongoing development and if necessary sanction those who step outside accepted standards.

 

As you describe, you were deterred (aka excluded) from engagement by the perfectly reasonable belief that your achievement would not be respected, because you didn’t follow school with a full-time undergraduate engineering degree. A member posting in one of these forums recently, expressed the (commonly articulated) view that we don’t want “unqualified” engineers, asking “who would want to be treated by an unqualified medical doctor”. Superficially this is isn’t unreasonable, but those who press this argument typically also presume that everyone else should follow the same “rights of passage” as they did.

 

Actual evidence of professional performance suggests that many engineers trained via an apprenticeship, perform to an equal or higher standard than an equivalent person from a full-time undergraduate background, especially in early career. However, the established system has had the effect of deeming them to be of “inferior status” relative to someone who was more academically successful in certain aspects of mathematics during their teenage years, for reasons either of aptitude or educationally advantaged circumstances. 

 

If we are to properly fulfil our collective potential, then we need to redouble our efforts to engage with all of those coming into engineering and technology. We also need to learn to respect equally all different types of professional contributions that fall within a reasonable definition of our interests (which for the IET is extremely broad).  

 

I take the view that The IET can add significant value to members, employers and  to society more widely by recognising standards of performance, including encouraging members to subject themselves to “peer review” with periodic re-validation.  As you describe, those who achieve Chartered recognition feel this value in particular, but the value added as felt by other types of registrant is generally less.  

 

The IIE (then the 4^th largest constituent of Engineering Council) promoted the proposition that each type of registrant was “different but equally valuable”, which was adopted by Engineering Council, but the position was subsequently reversed. To be more successful yet, we have to add more value to more people and organisations. The focus of much of the discussions in these forums seems to be on creating and emphasising difference, then apportioning relative status based upon these differences. I would prefer that the emphasis was on adding value through learning (in all its forms) and the enhanced performance of our (hopefully many more) members in all their variety.

 

PS to  Anthony

 

 Equivalence is in the eye of the beholder, in this case City & Guilds. This equivalence wasn’t reciprocated by Engineering Council. There have been various ways over the years to obtain a C&G Senior Award including for a time being Engineering Council registered and paying an additional fee. I wasn’t involved with C&G at that time, but I guess that the option was withdrawn through lack of interest. However, I recall Moshe posting at one time that C&G Senior Awards were on an American list of some kind, potentially offering some small advantage there?

 

When Tech Eng (later IEng) was established a Full Technological Certificate was considered an exemplifying qualification, it usually involved 5 or more years of day-release or evening-only college attendance and was similar to a HNC, but most colleges adopted TEC (later BTEC) awards instead from the late 70s. However a Full Technological Certificate in Telecommunications up to 1991 is recognised as a “standard qualification” for IEng and “International Technologist” on the (obscure) Engineering Council recognised courses database, which is open access on-line. Therefore since the post-1999 benchmark for IEng is “bachelors level”, the two qualifications could be considered equivalent, albeit from different eras. Rather than this being just a technocratic or legalistic point, having experience of both qualifications in both era’s, I would opine that they are of substantially similar standard. Does anyone disagree?   

 

I have seen examples of experienced engineers with Full Technological Certificates who have gained CEng. I have also seen examples of such engineers offered direct entry to masters degree programmes (on the basis of work-based learning deemed to be “bachelors level”) performing to a high academic standard.         

 

Congratulations Paul on confirmation of CEng status!

The recognition is well deserved. I always pointed out that the experienced professional route to registration is respected way and 

EC UK with PEI"s provides great service to the deserving professional like you.

As to C&G indeed the recognition of the Sr/professional awards is in the eye of the beholder. The C&G Royal Charter and statement from C&G

about the awards, academic standing, and their NVQ level and OfQal accreditation provide strong backing.

For example, In the USA if one holds C&G LCGI, FTC or FTD, in a technical field then one can become Certified Member of The American Society of Certified Engineering Technicians (& Technologists)  (ASCET).
ASCET is the only national, professional society created especially for, and administered by, engineering technicians and technologists in all engineering disciplines. It provides a level of recognition, networking opportunities, employers may see a value added when are looking for certified Engineering Technicians or Certified Engineering Technologists. I know individuals with LCGI who benefitted from ASCET membership in the USA. 
City and Guilds are listed among recognized certifying bodies alongside with the Canadian Council of Technicians and Technologists (CCTT) etc.

www.ascet.org/CertBodies​

 

 

Congratulations Mark, and many thanks for sharing your story!

Anthony,

A person shared their credential evaluation report.
AACRAO- Evaluation of International Educational Credentials
American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers (AACRAO)

 

Today, I received my international credit evaluation from AACRAO.

The following summarizes their conclusions:


This evaluation is for: Further Education , Employment, and Professional 

Licensure.


"The applicant received membership in the Institution of Incorporated Engineers in 2004, and received the title of Incorporated Engineer . Education , training, and experience are required in order to obtain membership as an Incorporated Engineer . 


Registration as an Incorporated Engineer is a professional qualification, and is comparable to that of a person licensed to practice engineering in the United States."

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I also think you may want to consider APEL rout to a degree.

The following London institutions welcome APEL enquiries: • Birkbeck, University of London www.bbk.ac.uk • London Metropolitan University www.londonmet.ac.uk/credit • Middlesex University www.mdx.ac.uk • Open University www.open.ac.uk • South Bank University www.sbu.ac.uk • Thames Valley University www.tvu.ac.uk • University of East London www.uel.ac.uk • University of Greenwich www.gre.ac.uk • University of Westminster www.wmin.ac.uk.


There are US options as well. Such as TESU.

Your IEng and C&G FTC may be placing you in final year of the degree. So being 55 in not to late.

You may be 56 and hold recognized degree. Cant hurt?