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U.K. ENGINEERING 2016 REPORT

Former Community Member over 8 years ago

I have noted in another discussion, several comments of my own, but there seems to be a lack of interest or it takes too long to read and digest the report.

Apart from Roy's original comments and direction to be able to read the report, it would be great to find out if IMechE, ICE and the IET have had any official comments on the report and if not, when can we expect any.?

Daniel

P.S. Just had to get away from CEng v IEng status discussion.

0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago in reply to Legh Richardson

PRI

ECUK only
does what the PEIs instruct.

The ECUK
agreed that PRI interview should not be part of the
procedure.

I was
refused CEng with other PEIs because I was abroad, there were no
true engineers available, only sales persons and commodity
speculators. They never met ECUK requirements, there were never
three persons at a PRI interview, the procedures were not
followed.

The whole
point is that if you have undertaken accredited academic studies
and have the practical training and work experience, you should not
be assessed by a few subjective PRIs who do not even make UK Spec.
( Some might; but the exception is reason enogh to abandon the
system).

Explain
that to the students that who are embarking on PE studies.

I am
getting into deep water, with economic, social science, history
analysis of the CENG cituation in the UK.

The UK
2016 ENGINEERING REPORT - is trying to undo this UK anomaly.

The reason
I started on this questioning was the disrespect for IEng; the CEng
lobby that are not CEng ECUK; the recruiting of overseas PEs into
UK PE Registration for personal gain and the huge expansion of IET
by overseas membership, and lastly the FEANI or EU engineering
registration for the majority of UK PEs ie BSc or equivalent, who
are refused PE registration in Europe.

I am not
alone in this questioning.

I live in
France because of corruption in EU & UK administration.
plagiarising my name and work.

In France
I have met the President, the Minister of Industry and EU
officials, they explained to me the universal political drive
to train people for technology and to set up and finance
apprenticeships.

I have led
French Trade missions, was noted as one of the 100 hightech
companies to help start the EU market in 1992, and am now a leading
nuclear engineer in R&D. I am lEng by default.

The UK is
now starting this approach to opening up technology to all and to
recognise the need for the IEng type PE.

I had
ideas which I tried to analyse, then in mentoring students in
technical English, I came across the same phenomena in other
academic fields.

It is all
related to Neo-liberalism and commutarianism. This is now
recognised as dead, but the damage is done and the UK has it
embeded in its Institutions, British Chamber of Commerce, EFL,
IET.

We have
terms of hegemony ( CEng controling majority IEng),
commodification, (selling products such as education, language and
dimplomas for profit where there was no previuos market);
globalisation, global culture.

IET seems
to have gone down this path at the deprement of the non CEng
members.

Some
people want status, what I feel is necessary is access to work with
equal opportunities. This is not political it is simply a just
reward for hard effort and professionalism. CEng & IEng, Male
& Female, complementary and equal. I have worked in teams as an
equal partner with emminent professors, Nobel laureates, and been
consulted by UKAEA, IBM, CERN CEA and others , no one said you are
anly aN IENG.

I am not
interested in descriptions and titles.

look at
the state the UK is in, not even capable of building a fully design
well proven nuclear reactor. which I had analysed and made my
comments on for immediate action. - now the UK EPR.

I am not
CEng, have been denigrated by UK universities HNC = 30 ECTS!, have
undertaken two MEng and was mocked by a Lord of the realm faciong
corruption charges and a drunke PRI who also face legal
charges.

Change is
needed, The ECUK is not in a position to change anything, it
follows PEI orders, IET is a minority in the PEI club, it can
infuence but not change anything.

The CEng
hemogemists have the upper hand.

IEng have
voted, a blank vote.

Has any
one on these blogs the courrage to stand and speak.

Those that
do are belittled.

My advice
is ignore and keep on stating what needs to be changed.

I' m for a
democratic PEI that respects its majority membership - BSc,
Technicians, Technologists and those that want to do real research
-taught masters and PhDs.

Not elite
hemegonists.

IIE was
working hard for that but the grandfather CEng Electricals have
killed the movement. Let's get IET back on the tracks.

John
Gowman MIET
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago in reply to Legh Richardson

PRI

ECUK only
does what the PEIs instruct.

The ECUK
agreed that PRI interview should not be part of the
procedure.

I was
refused CEng with other PEIs because I was abroad, there were no
true engineers available, only sales persons and commodity
speculators. They never met ECUK requirements, there were never
three persons at a PRI interview, the procedures were not
followed.

The whole
point is that if you have undertaken accredited academic studies
and have the practical training and work experience, you should not
be assessed by a few subjective PRIs who do not even make UK Spec.
( Some might; but the exception is reason enogh to abandon the
system).

Explain
that to the students that who are embarking on PE studies.

I am
getting into deep water, with economic, social science, history
analysis of the CENG cituation in the UK.

The UK
2016 ENGINEERING REPORT - is trying to undo this UK anomaly.

The reason
I started on this questioning was the disrespect for IEng; the CEng
lobby that are not CEng ECUK; the recruiting of overseas PEs into
UK PE Registration for personal gain and the huge expansion of IET
by overseas membership, and lastly the FEANI or EU engineering
registration for the majority of UK PEs ie BSc or equivalent, who
are refused PE registration in Europe.

I am not
alone in this questioning.

I live in
France because of corruption in EU & UK administration.
plagiarising my name and work.

In France
I have met the President, the Minister of Industry and EU
officials, they explained to me the universal political drive
to train people for technology and to set up and finance
apprenticeships.

I have led
French Trade missions, was noted as one of the 100 hightech
companies to help start the EU market in 1992, and am now a leading
nuclear engineer in R&D. I am lEng by default.

The UK is
now starting this approach to opening up technology to all and to
recognise the need for the IEng type PE.

I had
ideas which I tried to analyse, then in mentoring students in
technical English, I came across the same phenomena in other
academic fields.

It is all
related to Neo-liberalism and commutarianism. This is now
recognised as dead, but the damage is done and the UK has it
embeded in its Institutions, British Chamber of Commerce, EFL,
IET.

We have
terms of hegemony ( CEng controling majority IEng),
commodification, (selling products such as education, language and
dimplomas for profit where there was no previuos market);
globalisation, global culture.

IET seems
to have gone down this path at the deprement of the non CEng
members.

Some
people want status, what I feel is necessary is access to work with
equal opportunities. This is not political it is simply a just
reward for hard effort and professionalism. CEng & IEng, Male
& Female, complementary and equal. I have worked in teams as an
equal partner with emminent professors, Nobel laureates, and been
consulted by UKAEA, IBM, CERN CEA and others , no one said you are
anly aN IENG.

I am not
interested in descriptions and titles.

look at
the state the UK is in, not even capable of building a fully design
well proven nuclear reactor. which I had analysed and made my
comments on for immediate action. - now the UK EPR.

I am not
CEng, have been denigrated by UK universities HNC = 30 ECTS!, have
undertaken two MEng and was mocked by a Lord of the realm faciong
corruption charges and a drunke PRI who also face legal
charges.

Change is
needed, The ECUK is not in a position to change anything, it
follows PEI orders, IET is a minority in the PEI club, it can
infuence but not change anything.

The CEng
hemogemists have the upper hand.

IEng have
voted, a blank vote.

Has any
one on these blogs the courrage to stand and speak.

Those that
do are belittled.

My advice
is ignore and keep on stating what needs to be changed.

I' m for a
democratic PEI that respects its majority membership - BSc,
Technicians, Technologists and those that want to do real research
-taught masters and PhDs.

Not elite
hemegonists.

IIE was
working hard for that but the grandfather CEng Electricals have
killed the movement. Let's get IET back on the tracks.

John
Gowman MIET
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago in reply to Legh Richardson

PRI

ECUK only
does what the PEIs instruct.

The ECUK
agreed that PRI interview should not be part of the
procedure.

I was
refused CEng with other PEIs because I was abroad, there were no
true engineers available, only sales persons and commodity
speculators. They never met ECUK requirements, there were never
three persons at a PRI interview, the procedures were not
followed.

The whole
point is that if you have undertaken accredited academic studies
and have the practical training and work experience, you should not
be assessed by a few subjective PRIs who do not even make UK Spec.
( Some might; but the exception is reason enogh to abandon the
system).

Explain
that to the students that who are embarking on PE studies.

I am
getting into deep water, with economic, social science, history
analysis of the CENG cituation in the UK.

The UK
2016 ENGINEERING REPORT - is trying to undo this UK anomaly.

The reason
I started on this questioning was the disrespect for IEng; the CEng
lobby that are not CEng ECUK; the recruiting of overseas PEs into
UK PE Registration for personal gain and the huge expansion of IET
by overseas membership, and lastly the FEANI or EU engineering
registration for the majority of UK PEs ie BSc or equivalent, who
are refused PE registration in Europe.

I am not
alone in this questioning.

I live in
France because of corruption in EU & UK administration.
plagiarising my name and work.

In France
I have met the President, the Minister of Industry and EU
officials, they explained to me the universal political drive
to train people for technology and to set up and finance
apprenticeships.

I have led
French Trade missions, was noted as one of the 100 hightech
companies to help start the EU market in 1992, and am now a leading
nuclear engineer in R&D. I am lEng by default.

The UK is
now starting this approach to opening up technology to all and to
recognise the need for the IEng type PE.

I had
ideas which I tried to analyse, then in mentoring students in
technical English, I came across the same phenomena in other
academic fields.

It is all
related to Neo-liberalism and commutarianism. This is now
recognised as dead, but the damage is done and the UK has it
embeded in its Institutions, British Chamber of Commerce, EFL,
IET.

We have
terms of hegemony ( CEng controling majority IEng),
commodification, (selling products such as education, language and
dimplomas for profit where there was no previuos market);
globalisation, global culture.

IET seems
to have gone down this path at the deprement of the non CEng
members.

Some
people want status, what I feel is necessary is access to work with
equal opportunities. This is not political it is simply a just
reward for hard effort and professionalism. CEng & IEng, Male
& Female, complementary and equal. I have worked in teams as an
equal partner with emminent professors, Nobel laureates, and been
consulted by UKAEA, IBM, CERN CEA and others , no one said you are
anly aN IENG.

I am not
interested in descriptions and titles.

look at
the state the UK is in, not even capable of building a fully design
well proven nuclear reactor. which I had analysed and made my
comments on for immediate action. - now the UK EPR.

I am not
CEng, have been denigrated by UK universities HNC = 30 ECTS!, have
undertaken two MEng and was mocked by a Lord of the realm faciong
corruption charges and a drunke PRI who also face legal
charges.

Change is
needed, The ECUK is not in a position to change anything, it
follows PEI orders, IET is a minority in the PEI club, it can
infuence but not change anything.

The CEng
hemogemists have the upper hand.

IEng have
voted, a blank vote.

Has any
one on these blogs the courrage to stand and speak.

Those that
do are belittled.

My advice
is ignore and keep on stating what needs to be changed.

I' m for a
democratic PEI that respects its majority membership - BSc,
Technicians, Technologists and those that want to do real research
-taught masters and PhDs.

Not elite
hemegonists.

IIE was
working hard for that but the grandfather CEng Electricals have
killed the movement. Let's get IET back on the tracks.

John
Gowman MIET
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago in reply to Legh Richardson

PRI

ECUK only
does what the PEIs instruct.

The ECUK
agreed that PRI interview should not be part of the
procedure.

I was
refused CEng with other PEIs because I was abroad, there were no
true engineers available, only sales persons and commodity
speculators. They never met ECUK requirements, there were never
three persons at a PRI interview, the procedures were not
followed.

The whole
point is that if you have undertaken accredited academic studies
and have the practical training and work experience, you should not
be assessed by a few subjective PRIs who do not even make UK Spec.
( Some might; but the exception is reason enogh to abandon the
system).

Explain
that to the students that who are embarking on PE studies.

I am
getting into deep water, with economic, social science, history
analysis of the CENG cituation in the UK.

The UK
2016 ENGINEERING REPORT - is trying to undo this UK anomaly.

The reason
I started on this questioning was the disrespect for IEng; the CEng
lobby that are not CEng ECUK; the recruiting of overseas PEs into
UK PE Registration for personal gain and the huge expansion of IET
by overseas membership, and lastly the FEANI or EU engineering
registration for the majority of UK PEs ie BSc or equivalent, who
are refused PE registration in Europe.

I am not
alone in this questioning.

I live in
France because of corruption in EU & UK administration.
plagiarising my name and work.

In France
I have met the President, the Minister of Industry and EU
officials, they explained to me the universal political drive
to train people for technology and to set up and finance
apprenticeships.

I have led
French Trade missions, was noted as one of the 100 hightech
companies to help start the EU market in 1992, and am now a leading
nuclear engineer in R&D. I am lEng by default.

The UK is
now starting this approach to opening up technology to all and to
recognise the need for the IEng type PE.

I had
ideas which I tried to analyse, then in mentoring students in
technical English, I came across the same phenomena in other
academic fields.

It is all
related to Neo-liberalism and commutarianism. This is now
recognised as dead, but the damage is done and the UK has it
embeded in its Institutions, British Chamber of Commerce, EFL,
IET.

We have
terms of hegemony ( CEng controling majority IEng),
commodification, (selling products such as education, language and
dimplomas for profit where there was no previuos market);
globalisation, global culture.

IET seems
to have gone down this path at the deprement of the non CEng
members.

Some
people want status, what I feel is necessary is access to work with
equal opportunities. This is not political it is simply a just
reward for hard effort and professionalism. CEng & IEng, Male
& Female, complementary and equal. I have worked in teams as an
equal partner with emminent professors, Nobel laureates, and been
consulted by UKAEA, IBM, CERN CEA and others , no one said you are
anly aN IENG.

I am not
interested in descriptions and titles.

look at
the state the UK is in, not even capable of building a fully design
well proven nuclear reactor. which I had analysed and made my
comments on for immediate action. - now the UK EPR.

I am not
CEng, have been denigrated by UK universities HNC = 30 ECTS!, have
undertaken two MEng and was mocked by a Lord of the realm faciong
corruption charges and a drunke PRI who also face legal
charges.

Change is
needed, The ECUK is not in a position to change anything, it
follows PEI orders, IET is a minority in the PEI club, it can
infuence but not change anything.

The CEng
hemogemists have the upper hand.

IEng have
voted, a blank vote.

Has any
one on these blogs the courrage to stand and speak.

Those that
do are belittled.

My advice
is ignore and keep on stating what needs to be changed.

I' m for a
democratic PEI that respects its majority membership - BSc,
Technicians, Technologists and those that want to do real research
-taught masters and PhDs.

Not elite
hemegonists.

IIE was
working hard for that but the grandfather CEng Electricals have
killed the movement. Let's get IET back on the tracks.

John
Gowman MIET
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago

I think no matter what any engineer says about the value of our education or qualification, it will be the marketplace that will have the final say on our value. Many engineers earn a good salary. We must face that our value is not ours to determine, as the marketplace dictates the salaries of physicians, engineers, accountants and other professionals. I think in free countries the Law of Supply and Demand will dictate engineers employability, engineering salaries in the location where the work is done. People will continue to move to find work.

Some of my colleagues say that a professional engineer credential will have very little effect on the market price or the value of an engineer in the short term, and most likely also in the longer term, as there are very competent engineers of all disciplines without the designation. I tend to argue with them and present the opposite.

In the end, business leaders, who control the money/salaries, view engineering as a commodity item that can be bought and sold for the lowest price. Perhaps there is a new differentiator around the corner. The good news is that engineering pays well, as long as the engineer does his/her best to maintain competency. What maintains a CEng, IEng, PEng, PE and one's competence?

Still remains ongoing and successful engineering practice.
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0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago in reply to Legh Richardson

Moshe ;

I agree with your
observations.

People will
continue to move to find
work.  - At a lower salary
because their local market has been destroyed, it is already
happening

Many engineers earn a
good salary. - There is a huge market of
second rate (BSc) engineers on precarious contracts with basic
salaries , as there are medical doctors and
jurists.

In the end, business
leaders, who control the money/salaries, view engineering as a
commodity. - It is happening now
that’s why we have Trump, BREXIT and now FREXIT and
Hungary.

What maintains a CEng, IEng,
PEng, PE and one's competence? Still
remains ongoing and
successful engineering practice.
- After this report
is actualised, I Eng will be degraded

As I am trying to point
out, the UK PEs that strived to form IIE for all grades, all
gender, all domains of engineering have been let down by the IEE
CEng, global contingent at IET.

The UK Engineering 2016
Report is trying to face up to today’s UK necessities as IIE did
before.

That is to say; a quality
education, formation, training and registration of UK
engineers.

However people will
always look after their interests first.

The UK does not have
enough PEs, those that we have do not have the skills for modern
engineering.

There is an over
abundance of Masters and PhDs that cannot find work and are taking
BSc positions for which they do not have the training or
formation.

To today’s necessities
are bilingual, BSc PEs with full IT operational competences, but
skilled in their atypical domains with a full generalist
background, and a basic knowledge of finance, contract law, project
management with systems analysis just for
starters.

The CEng requirements for
higher maths is long gone, it is for those going into specialised
research.

An engineer that
calculates is a danger, he has to apply approved mathematical
models and codes only.

There are two branches of
Master, one is research, the other is specialisation. Research goes
on to a now out of date PhD, and the specialist is only a
specialist in his domain, not able to change
disciplines.

The MEng needs to be re
assessed, but it is the road to a true engineer.

Managers can come from
any field not just engineering.

My family contacts bring
me into relations with young adults of all standards most of them
are over educated with two or three masters and unemployable.
Those that took Licence and worked, have a good start in life with
responsible jobs and all the consequences.

You are basing your
comments on neo liberalism.

This is now abandoned;
Europe is addressing this today and is in a mess, USA went popular
as did Britain with Trump and BREXIT.

We now have
protectionism.

I have worked for US and
German companies, they have all moved the French design offices to
their countries, gone global, delocalising into lower paid
countries and then closing down their production bases outside of
France. This Globalisation.

This policy of unfounded
economics leads to some phenomena which destroy our engineering
systems-

These are :

Hegemonisation,
the ruling by a minority of
a majority. CEng dominating IEng & Technician.

Commodification,
selling unsellable systems
for profit, - English as a foreign language, coupled with
universities and university qualifications, and Professional
English language engineering registration (CEng and IEng).

Communitarianism
which
gives us all the political problems, but includes CEng exclusion of
IEng, I gave examples, but the IET IT system did not print the copy
paste.

What I showed was how Job
propositions made by CEng in the UK specify CEng only for what are
only IEng jobs. The other example was IMech E PEs recruiting only I
Mech Es and blocking IET mechanical engineering.

IET for pure profit
recruited a mass of these PEs even though they were denigrating IET
mechanicals.

Globalisation
which
will destroy home based engineering economies.

Leaving politics, economics
and even religion on the sideline, what we need for our engineering
future is:

-
A sensible equal system of
engineering training which, like law and medicine requires a long
practical formation.

-
We need to bring back the
principle of quality (Six sigma, QA be it what it may) to our
engineering practice.

-
We need to manage our
engineering markets.

-
Each country needs to clean
up and re-establish its own engineering base.

-
We need reasonable free
trade, but not exploitation.

-
Engineers need lots of practice

T

he problem being addressed
is firstly a British
one-

The Major three PEIs ICE, IET, IME are
going to exclude all the other PEIs from The UK ENGINEERING 2016
Report approval.

IET is now acting as the
Electrical and IT spokes person.

The Generalist and
specialist PEI and PEs are being locked out of
discussions.

This is British Politics,
which is based upon Neo liberalism in today’s mutation with Hegemonisation,
Communitarianism, & Globalisation.

The Big Three PEIs at CEng
dominance will decide for the poor incapable rest ie : IEng,
Technologists, Technicians, both specialists and
generalists.

The future of our economy is
based on future quality engineering.

We need true working
engineers

We need to decide what
future engineering is to be

We need to train these
future engineers by apprenticeship combined with educational and
industrial support. Government will give the means but will not
control.

For safety; engineers need
to be properly registered.

The UK ENGINEERING 2016
Report is addressing this problem, do not let it be hijacked by
these out of date hegemonists.

The question is
–

Does the majority of MIET
agree.

If so, then IET has let down
its founding members and its raison d’être.

Change is necessary, but
greed, pride and prejudice is not engineering.

It is not for
me.

I’m an Engineer no matter
what others think – I work and get paid as an
engineer.

John Gowman,
MIET
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Vote Up 0 Vote Down

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0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago in reply to Legh Richardson

Moshe ;

I agree with your
observations.

People will
continue to move to find
work.  - At a lower salary
because their local market has been destroyed, it is already
happening

Many engineers earn a
good salary. - There is a huge market of
second rate (BSc) engineers on precarious contracts with basic
salaries , as there are medical doctors and
jurists.

In the end, business
leaders, who control the money/salaries, view engineering as a
commodity. - It is happening now
that’s why we have Trump, BREXIT and now FREXIT and
Hungary.

What maintains a CEng, IEng,
PEng, PE and one's competence? Still
remains ongoing and
successful engineering practice.
- After this report
is actualised, I Eng will be degraded

As I am trying to point
out, the UK PEs that strived to form IIE for all grades, all
gender, all domains of engineering have been let down by the IEE
CEng, global contingent at IET.

The UK Engineering 2016
Report is trying to face up to today’s UK necessities as IIE did
before.

That is to say; a quality
education, formation, training and registration of UK
engineers.

However people will
always look after their interests first.

The UK does not have
enough PEs, those that we have do not have the skills for modern
engineering.

There is an over
abundance of Masters and PhDs that cannot find work and are taking
BSc positions for which they do not have the training or
formation.

To today’s necessities
are bilingual, BSc PEs with full IT operational competences, but
skilled in their atypical domains with a full generalist
background, and a basic knowledge of finance, contract law, project
management with systems analysis just for
starters.

The CEng requirements for
higher maths is long gone, it is for those going into specialised
research.

An engineer that
calculates is a danger, he has to apply approved mathematical
models and codes only.

There are two branches of
Master, one is research, the other is specialisation. Research goes
on to a now out of date PhD, and the specialist is only a
specialist in his domain, not able to change
disciplines.

The MEng needs to be re
assessed, but it is the road to a true engineer.

Managers can come from
any field not just engineering.

My family contacts bring
me into relations with young adults of all standards most of them
are over educated with two or three masters and unemployable.
Those that took Licence and worked, have a good start in life with
responsible jobs and all the consequences.

You are basing your
comments on neo liberalism.

This is now abandoned;
Europe is addressing this today and is in a mess, USA went popular
as did Britain with Trump and BREXIT.

We now have
protectionism.

I have worked for US and
German companies, they have all moved the French design offices to
their countries, gone global, delocalising into lower paid
countries and then closing down their production bases outside of
France. This Globalisation.

This policy of unfounded
economics leads to some phenomena which destroy our engineering
systems-

These are :

Hegemonisation,
the ruling by a minority of
a majority. CEng dominating IEng & Technician.

Commodification,
selling unsellable systems
for profit, - English as a foreign language, coupled with
universities and university qualifications, and Professional
English language engineering registration (CEng and IEng).

Communitarianism
which
gives us all the political problems, but includes CEng exclusion of
IEng, I gave examples, but the IET IT system did not print the copy
paste.

What I showed was how Job
propositions made by CEng in the UK specify CEng only for what are
only IEng jobs. The other example was IMech E PEs recruiting only I
Mech Es and blocking IET mechanical engineering.

IET for pure profit
recruited a mass of these PEs even though they were denigrating IET
mechanicals.

Globalisation
which
will destroy home based engineering economies.

Leaving politics, economics
and even religion on the sideline, what we need for our engineering
future is:

-
A sensible equal system of
engineering training which, like law and medicine requires a long
practical formation.

-
We need to bring back the
principle of quality (Six sigma, QA be it what it may) to our
engineering practice.

-
We need to manage our
engineering markets.

-
Each country needs to clean
up and re-establish its own engineering base.

-
We need reasonable free
trade, but not exploitation.

-
Engineers need lots of practice

T

he problem being addressed
is firstly a British
one-

The Major three PEIs ICE, IET, IME are
going to exclude all the other PEIs from The UK ENGINEERING 2016
Report approval.

IET is now acting as the
Electrical and IT spokes person.

The Generalist and
specialist PEI and PEs are being locked out of
discussions.

This is British Politics,
which is based upon Neo liberalism in today’s mutation with Hegemonisation,
Communitarianism, & Globalisation.

The Big Three PEIs at CEng
dominance will decide for the poor incapable rest ie : IEng,
Technologists, Technicians, both specialists and
generalists.

The future of our economy is
based on future quality engineering.

We need true working
engineers

We need to decide what
future engineering is to be

We need to train these
future engineers by apprenticeship combined with educational and
industrial support. Government will give the means but will not
control.

For safety; engineers need
to be properly registered.

The UK ENGINEERING 2016
Report is addressing this problem, do not let it be hijacked by
these out of date hegemonists.

The question is
–

Does the majority of MIET
agree.

If so, then IET has let down
its founding members and its raison d’être.

Change is necessary, but
greed, pride and prejudice is not engineering.

It is not for
me.

I’m an Engineer no matter
what others think – I work and get paid as an
engineer.

John Gowman,
MIET
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago in reply to Legh Richardson

Moshe ;

I agree with your
observations.

People will
continue to move to find
work.  - At a lower salary
because their local market has been destroyed, it is already
happening

Many engineers earn a
good salary. - There is a huge market of
second rate (BSc) engineers on precarious contracts with basic
salaries , as there are medical doctors and
jurists.

In the end, business
leaders, who control the money/salaries, view engineering as a
commodity. - It is happening now
that’s why we have Trump, BREXIT and now FREXIT and
Hungary.

What maintains a CEng, IEng,
PEng, PE and one's competence? Still
remains ongoing and
successful engineering practice.
- After this report
is actualised, I Eng will be degraded

As I am trying to point
out, the UK PEs that strived to form IIE for all grades, all
gender, all domains of engineering have been let down by the IEE
CEng, global contingent at IET.

The UK Engineering 2016
Report is trying to face up to today’s UK necessities as IIE did
before.

That is to say; a quality
education, formation, training and registration of UK
engineers.

However people will
always look after their interests first.

The UK does not have
enough PEs, those that we have do not have the skills for modern
engineering.

There is an over
abundance of Masters and PhDs that cannot find work and are taking
BSc positions for which they do not have the training or
formation.

To today’s necessities
are bilingual, BSc PEs with full IT operational competences, but
skilled in their atypical domains with a full generalist
background, and a basic knowledge of finance, contract law, project
management with systems analysis just for
starters.

The CEng requirements for
higher maths is long gone, it is for those going into specialised
research.

An engineer that
calculates is a danger, he has to apply approved mathematical
models and codes only.

There are two branches of
Master, one is research, the other is specialisation. Research goes
on to a now out of date PhD, and the specialist is only a
specialist in his domain, not able to change
disciplines.

The MEng needs to be re
assessed, but it is the road to a true engineer.

Managers can come from
any field not just engineering.

My family contacts bring
me into relations with young adults of all standards most of them
are over educated with two or three masters and unemployable.
Those that took Licence and worked, have a good start in life with
responsible jobs and all the consequences.

You are basing your
comments on neo liberalism.

This is now abandoned;
Europe is addressing this today and is in a mess, USA went popular
as did Britain with Trump and BREXIT.

We now have
protectionism.

I have worked for US and
German companies, they have all moved the French design offices to
their countries, gone global, delocalising into lower paid
countries and then closing down their production bases outside of
France. This Globalisation.

This policy of unfounded
economics leads to some phenomena which destroy our engineering
systems-

These are :

Hegemonisation,
the ruling by a minority of
a majority. CEng dominating IEng & Technician.

Commodification,
selling unsellable systems
for profit, - English as a foreign language, coupled with
universities and university qualifications, and Professional
English language engineering registration (CEng and IEng).

Communitarianism
which
gives us all the political problems, but includes CEng exclusion of
IEng, I gave examples, but the IET IT system did not print the copy
paste.

What I showed was how Job
propositions made by CEng in the UK specify CEng only for what are
only IEng jobs. The other example was IMech E PEs recruiting only I
Mech Es and blocking IET mechanical engineering.

IET for pure profit
recruited a mass of these PEs even though they were denigrating IET
mechanicals.

Globalisation
which
will destroy home based engineering economies.

Leaving politics, economics
and even religion on the sideline, what we need for our engineering
future is:

-
A sensible equal system of
engineering training which, like law and medicine requires a long
practical formation.

-
We need to bring back the
principle of quality (Six sigma, QA be it what it may) to our
engineering practice.

-
We need to manage our
engineering markets.

-
Each country needs to clean
up and re-establish its own engineering base.

-
We need reasonable free
trade, but not exploitation.

-
Engineers need lots of practice

T

he problem being addressed
is firstly a British
one-

The Major three PEIs ICE, IET, IME are
going to exclude all the other PEIs from The UK ENGINEERING 2016
Report approval.

IET is now acting as the
Electrical and IT spokes person.

The Generalist and
specialist PEI and PEs are being locked out of
discussions.

This is British Politics,
which is based upon Neo liberalism in today’s mutation with Hegemonisation,
Communitarianism, & Globalisation.

The Big Three PEIs at CEng
dominance will decide for the poor incapable rest ie : IEng,
Technologists, Technicians, both specialists and
generalists.

The future of our economy is
based on future quality engineering.

We need true working
engineers

We need to decide what
future engineering is to be

We need to train these
future engineers by apprenticeship combined with educational and
industrial support. Government will give the means but will not
control.

For safety; engineers need
to be properly registered.

The UK ENGINEERING 2016
Report is addressing this problem, do not let it be hijacked by
these out of date hegemonists.

The question is
–

Does the majority of MIET
agree.

If so, then IET has let down
its founding members and its raison d’être.

Change is necessary, but
greed, pride and prejudice is not engineering.

It is not for
me.

I’m an Engineer no matter
what others think – I work and get paid as an
engineer.

John Gowman,
MIET
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago in reply to Legh Richardson

Moshe ;

I agree with your
observations.

People will
continue to move to find
work.  - At a lower salary
because their local market has been destroyed, it is already
happening

Many engineers earn a
good salary. - There is a huge market of
second rate (BSc) engineers on precarious contracts with basic
salaries , as there are medical doctors and
jurists.

In the end, business
leaders, who control the money/salaries, view engineering as a
commodity. - It is happening now
that’s why we have Trump, BREXIT and now FREXIT and
Hungary.

What maintains a CEng, IEng,
PEng, PE and one's competence? Still
remains ongoing and
successful engineering practice.
- After this report
is actualised, I Eng will be degraded

As I am trying to point
out, the UK PEs that strived to form IIE for all grades, all
gender, all domains of engineering have been let down by the IEE
CEng, global contingent at IET.

The UK Engineering 2016
Report is trying to face up to today’s UK necessities as IIE did
before.

That is to say; a quality
education, formation, training and registration of UK
engineers.

However people will
always look after their interests first.

The UK does not have
enough PEs, those that we have do not have the skills for modern
engineering.

There is an over
abundance of Masters and PhDs that cannot find work and are taking
BSc positions for which they do not have the training or
formation.

To today’s necessities
are bilingual, BSc PEs with full IT operational competences, but
skilled in their atypical domains with a full generalist
background, and a basic knowledge of finance, contract law, project
management with systems analysis just for
starters.

The CEng requirements for
higher maths is long gone, it is for those going into specialised
research.

An engineer that
calculates is a danger, he has to apply approved mathematical
models and codes only.

There are two branches of
Master, one is research, the other is specialisation. Research goes
on to a now out of date PhD, and the specialist is only a
specialist in his domain, not able to change
disciplines.

The MEng needs to be re
assessed, but it is the road to a true engineer.

Managers can come from
any field not just engineering.

My family contacts bring
me into relations with young adults of all standards most of them
are over educated with two or three masters and unemployable.
Those that took Licence and worked, have a good start in life with
responsible jobs and all the consequences.

You are basing your
comments on neo liberalism.

This is now abandoned;
Europe is addressing this today and is in a mess, USA went popular
as did Britain with Trump and BREXIT.

We now have
protectionism.

I have worked for US and
German companies, they have all moved the French design offices to
their countries, gone global, delocalising into lower paid
countries and then closing down their production bases outside of
France. This Globalisation.

This policy of unfounded
economics leads to some phenomena which destroy our engineering
systems-

These are :

Hegemonisation,
the ruling by a minority of
a majority. CEng dominating IEng & Technician.

Commodification,
selling unsellable systems
for profit, - English as a foreign language, coupled with
universities and university qualifications, and Professional
English language engineering registration (CEng and IEng).

Communitarianism
which
gives us all the political problems, but includes CEng exclusion of
IEng, I gave examples, but the IET IT system did not print the copy
paste.

What I showed was how Job
propositions made by CEng in the UK specify CEng only for what are
only IEng jobs. The other example was IMech E PEs recruiting only I
Mech Es and blocking IET mechanical engineering.

IET for pure profit
recruited a mass of these PEs even though they were denigrating IET
mechanicals.

Globalisation
which
will destroy home based engineering economies.

Leaving politics, economics
and even religion on the sideline, what we need for our engineering
future is:

-
A sensible equal system of
engineering training which, like law and medicine requires a long
practical formation.

-
We need to bring back the
principle of quality (Six sigma, QA be it what it may) to our
engineering practice.

-
We need to manage our
engineering markets.

-
Each country needs to clean
up and re-establish its own engineering base.

-
We need reasonable free
trade, but not exploitation.

-
Engineers need lots of practice

T

he problem being addressed
is firstly a British
one-

The Major three PEIs ICE, IET, IME are
going to exclude all the other PEIs from The UK ENGINEERING 2016
Report approval.

IET is now acting as the
Electrical and IT spokes person.

The Generalist and
specialist PEI and PEs are being locked out of
discussions.

This is British Politics,
which is based upon Neo liberalism in today’s mutation with Hegemonisation,
Communitarianism, & Globalisation.

The Big Three PEIs at CEng
dominance will decide for the poor incapable rest ie : IEng,
Technologists, Technicians, both specialists and
generalists.

The future of our economy is
based on future quality engineering.

We need true working
engineers

We need to decide what
future engineering is to be

We need to train these
future engineers by apprenticeship combined with educational and
industrial support. Government will give the means but will not
control.

For safety; engineers need
to be properly registered.

The UK ENGINEERING 2016
Report is addressing this problem, do not let it be hijacked by
these out of date hegemonists.

The question is
–

Does the majority of MIET
agree.

If so, then IET has let down
its founding members and its raison d’être.

Change is necessary, but
greed, pride and prejudice is not engineering.

It is not for
me.

I’m an Engineer no matter
what others think – I work and get paid as an
engineer.

John Gowman,
MIET
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Peter Miller over 8 years ago

Interesting response from the CEO of the iMechE, seems to me the more radical parts of the review have already been discounted!

www.imeche.org/.../hunt-is-on-for-3m-missing-members
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