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U.K. ENGINEERING 2016 REPORT

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
​I have noted in another discussion, several comments of my own, but there seems to be a lack of interest or it takes too long to read and digest the report.

​Apart from Roy's original comments and direction to be able to read the report, it would be great to find out if IMechE, ICE and the IET have had any official comments on the report and if not, when can we expect any.?


​Daniel


P.S. Just had to get away from CEng v IEng status discussion.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Legh Richardson


    A long blog.

    There are so many
    misconceptions that some facts have to be given. I avoid the
    politics.

    Results of
     Globalisation  = Hegemony  -  
    Commodification  - Neoliberalism 

     

    What certain IET members
    would like to see revised and implemented in order to work in
    engineering.

    Re:

    Andy Millar


    ·        
    I do strongly disagree
    with the suggestion in the Discussion & Conclusions (and Exec
    Summary) that IEng / EngTech should be merged, 
    JG – They are two distinct
    professions with different training and applications. A Ceng would
    not appreciate the difference unless hes has passed through these
    metiers.


    ·        
    but in the actual
    Recommendations is the very sensible suggestion that the PEIs and
    EC should "...review other grades of registration
    and membership." (I.e. find out why people aren't applying for
    IEng and EngTech, and then decide what to
    do about it.)


    ·        
    the vast majority of
    engineers aren't members of an institution. 

    Moshe Waserman


    ·        
    Can UK engineers
    benefit from a body with the power that NSPE has in the
    USA?
    NSPE is a National
    Society of Professional Engineers.



    ·        
    Registration provides
    formal recognition of the     qualification, experience
    competency     of an engineer same as
    CEng.

    Engineers occupy positions of trust and responsibility within the
    community, industry and across government and perform a critical
    role in the design and construction of major infrastructure and in
    the mining, resources and manufacturing sectors.

    Daniel Sott


    I know for a fact that
    here in Canada that CEng doesn't mean a thing unless you can
    become registered as a PEng.     JG – This is a form of


     

    Firstly : ECUK -
    BREXIT

    Jon Prichard CEng FICE
    FInstRE, CEO of the Engineering Council, says:

    “Further to the ‘Leave’
    result in the EU referendum, the Engineering Council will continue
    to work with the professional engineering community to ensure that
    the needs of the profession, including the crucial role that
    registration plays in maintaining public confidence in engineering
    products and services, are understood by
    government. 

    **************************************


    “With regards to
    registration with FEANI as a European Engineer (EUR ING), the
    criteria are not dependent on place of residence, or location of
    study or work experience. We expect registrants who are already EUR
    ING to be able to remain on the FEANI register, with those wishing
    to become registered also being able to do so, providing they meet
    the required combination of education and
    experience.”


    Neoliberalism

    News Flash today: la
    souveraineté populaire (laquelle dit de plus en plus fortement non
    au néo-libéralisme)


    British people (who say
    more and more strongly no to Neo liberalism) This is BREXIT which
    will penalise UK PEs if the     U.K. ENGINEERING 2016
    REPORT     is not correctly prepared in the favour of
    PEs - BSc (I Eng)& FEANI Eur Ing


     

    Hegemony

     

    PEIs apply restrictive
    practices in :


    ·        
    CEng registration

    IEng registration


    ·        
    FEANI UK membership.

     

    IET
    hegemony

    Why be a member of a
    PEI  = to be CEng to gain a post in engineering by excluding
    others    :


    ·        
    C Eng is needed to gain a PE
    engineering post


    ·        
    CEng are in a recruiting
    position


    ·        
    CEng give specifications for
    recruiting to HR


    ·        
    CEng recruit mainly CEng
    first

    Rule :
    you
    must be a CEng to work as a PE now in many cases; you must be a
    member of a PEI to be CEng.

     

    Definition

    A group or class can
    achieve domination of another by cultural ideological means ex :
    BREXIT, ISIS, CENG.

    Domination
    by
    hegemony of a minority = ( CEng). Those dominated = majority (IEng
    & non CEng MIET) via consensus of the majority. This domination
    is more powerful than by force.

    By occupation of
    influential positions ie Council, Board, Advisors by those CEng not
    actively working.

    ECUK is another example
    where most decision makers are CEng.

     

    How to gain
    CEng?

    You must be a PEI
    member.

    To be A PEI member and
    CEng registered you must conform with and be approved by a
    PRA

     


    YOUR
    CONSENT    : In the course of
    contacting and liaising with the PRA you acknowledge and agree to
    the PRA contacting the Professional Registration Team to advise
    them of any dialogue which may be relevant to any current or future
    Professional Registration application. By continuing to request
    contact, you agree to these terms.

    JG see below ECUK does not
    see the need for this role.

     


     


     

    This report is a first step
    in re-establishing the importance of the cross discipline, multi
    grades professional engineer.

    We must forget the history
    and the past and strive to repair and replenish and promote our
    profession.

    The ECUK is a British
    institution for British PEs who have British needs in this global
    market that is being exploited – we have national interests to
    secure primarily.

     

    The UK needs to recruit,
    train, and educate more PEs at all levels: (JG - Specialised Crafts
    man, Technician, Engineer, Technologist).     The case has been
    stated; it needs to have a UK PE consensus and rapid
    implementation.

     

    I have brought up certain
    questions with the ECUK, being debated in these blogs, as I am not
    in the UK and excluded from normal political and civil rights. – I
    am not allowed to contact a MP or Vote.

     

    I have questioned the ECUK
    concerning :


    ·        
    Peer review on PE -ECUK
    registration;


    ·        
    the procedure of certain
    PEIs excluding other PEI members from apply for engineering
    posts


    ·        
    the true status and right to
    be IEng or CEng.


    ·        
    I question why ECUK
    registers PEs from countries that are not UK or European
    related.

     

    I have questioned practices
    and procedures that concern ECUK PE registration by UK
    PEIs.

     

    Is the Electrical – IT CEng
    group the PEIhegemon exerting undue
    influence within IET?

    This cultural hegemony "is
    hegemonic only if
    those (IEng) affected by it also consent to and struggle over its
    common sense".

     

    My advice would be, if
    you're letting someone get on your nerves that really shouldn't
    have the power, remember that they're just a fopdoodle; then carry
    on, but make your views be known.

     

    Commodification


    ·                 
    People are commodified—turned into
    objects—when working, by selling their labour on the market to an
    employer; this leads to a cultural commodification as
    "eating the other".

     

    Why register for
    CEng     – to sell your commodity
    to gain prestige and a salary above others (IEng or non ECUK
    PEs).     Students as consumers and
    higher education institutions and PEIs are ’education product’
    providers. They regard their degree solely as a qualification that
    will allow them to progress on to a well paid job.

     

    Why recruit foreign PEs
    as UK ECUK registered I Eng or CEng?     - To
    commodify.

    It is the menu of the
    day, developed by politicians, schools of commerce – MBA,
    it is
    the result of  Neo liberalism = globalisation, it leads
    to  Commodification.

     

    IET sells CEng abroad as a
    commodity, we could just sell MIET but who would buy
    that?

     

    Diploma or PE
    registration     causes problems abroad
    because it creates systems that don’t work in the country because
    they are copied from elsewhere and are not adapted to local needs
    and traditions.

    Daniel Sott
    stated this above, I have
    stated this on the French IET Community blog.

     

    In both cases the commodification of PEI
    ECUK registration results as a possible benefit lost both to the
    PEs and to society.

     


    ·                 
    We are changing to a
    knowledge based economy at the expense of training and experience
    competences.

    Many are choosing to
    focus only on preparation for the labour market and possibilities
    for maximising personal financial returns upon graduation, which is
    a negative and one-sided approach. This has also led to a decrease
    in cooperation and solidarity between individual students of
    different objectives (Technician, IEng, CEng) and an increase in
    unhealthy competition for the purpose of the fulfilment of personal
    aims.

    These are not my words –
    JG.

     


    ·        
    Mark Curtis

    I am aware of the some of
    the history, but I strongly believe a merger of the PEIs (i.e.
    IMechE, IET, ICE, RAE, IED, etc) makes an awful lot of sense to me
    –

    JG - When PEIs
    blatantly block recruiting of PEs from fellow PEIs then the ECUK
    system will not be appropriate.

     


    ·        
    PEI member ship is
    confounded with ECUK registration. A PEI is a private club, the
    ECUK is a UK Non Government organisation, where as you cannot argue
    about IET selecting its members, ECUK does not approve of selecting
    the registration of PEs.

    Therefore Peer reviews and
    sponsors is not an
    UKEC prerquisite    .

     

    Examples to back up my
    stements.

    Recruiting criteria note
    ONC, HNC, BSc,-  no CENG

    UKAEA Posts for Professional
    engineers:


    ·        
    Radwaste Interface
    Officer

    While no formal
    qualifications are required for this post an ONC,
    or similar, in a relevant subject would be considered
    advantageous.


    ·        
    UKAEA Windscale -
    Lead Project
    Engineer

    Requirements

    Ideally qualified to a
    HNC in an engineering
    discipline     or with a Project Management
    qualification


    ·        
    UKAEA Windscale 
    -    Engineering
    Manager

    Requirements

    Preferably qualified to
    degree level or
    equivalent     in a relevant engineering
    discipline,

     

    The same UK Non -Government
    Organisation UKAEA Culham had a closed shop
    approach:

    UKAEA
    -CCFE-Culham     Safety Case Managers and
    Engineers      -
    For both positions, ideally
    you will be qualified to degree level in an
    engineering or science     discipline (or have equivalent
    professional experience). You should have, or at least be working
    towards    , membership of an appropriate
    professional body.

     

    CCFE then changed its approach to
    recruiting.

    This section of UKAEA
    refused IEng as engineers, and refused CEng IET for
    mechanical posts.










    The irony of the
    situation is that the plant where the posts are advertised was
    designed and built by an IET IEng generalist whose application was
    refused for the posts calling for IMechE CEng.

     

    I went to UKAEA  to
    find out what was happening. I explained that IET was a generalist
    PEI including Mechanical engineers.  Result:

     

    Chief Engineer CCFE –
    JET : Comments on applicants CV &
    interview

    “Huge pedigree &
    experience     but no C Eng.”

    I have to supply CV’s with
    bid,     looking for C Eng – I
    MechE      -  (because he insisted
    on C Eng (I Mech E) registration.)  - see Culham job
    descriptions above

     

    After my visit they still
    called for CEng for all engineering posts but accepted IET for
    mechanical posts if you met the specification.

    This same group frog marched
    30 + PEs into IET and their CEO was given Hon Fellow
    IET.

     

    IET should respect and
    support its members.

    This happens all over
    England, it is a procedure that is not acceptable.

    Closed shop
    promotions.

    UKAEA is the UK Nuclear
    R&D Centre for Fusion and complementary Technologies; it should
    be an example of quality and standards in the UK.


     This above case is the
    reason I did not ask for IET CEng; I would have been refused a post
    as I was not IMech E!



    ECUK personal
    communication     Jon
    Prichard    :

    Sponsorship






     



    Role
    Competence






     

    Personal communication JG to
    CEO IET


    **** I suggest that IET
    should enter into negotiations with NI to
    amalgamate and to have a sound nuclear R & D background and
    Nuclear Engineering Technologist of all levels in
    IET.


     

    There are so many
    discrepancies between PEI traditional values and ECUK PE
    registration requisites; that are still implemented by the majority
    of UK PEIs.

    ECUK CEng
    registration


     

    Remember that formal
    education is just one option.

    If you do not hold a
    formal qualification, but can provide other evidence of your
    technical knowledge and understanding, you can still become
    registered.

     

    European Engineer (EUR ING)
    Registration


    Having achieved Chartered
    Engineer status, engineers are able to apply for EUR ING
    registration – a title recognised by the European Commission and in
    member states

     

    To apply for EUR ING
    registration in the UK you must be a member of a professional
    engineering institution and registered as a Chartered Engineer with
    the Engineering Council.

    JG
    Therefore a UK PE living
    outside of the UK is under UK domination.

    How to Apply for the EUR
    ING Title


    For UK, the applications
    should be sent to the appropriate Institution with the appropriate
    fee. The Institutions are listed in the section
    "    Members". A Guidance Note to
    assist in completing the form is also available to UK applicants from their
    Institution.

    I have been refused CEng
    on five occassions, ECUK agree that I should have been made CEng 30
    years ago, but ECUK has no power over
    PEIs. 

     

    EU secondary
    education

    At 18 years = France,
    baccalaureate (Scientific = 2 + languages, history, geography,
    Literature, Philosophy + physics/ chemistry mathematics ) ; Germany
    ABITUR.

    UK secondary education at 18
    years  = 3 A Levels in maths  & 2 science subjects =
    a total lack of general education. However the UK allows pupils to
    leave School at 16. GCSE is the perquisite for apprenticeships in
    Engineering.

     

    FEANI
    Registration

    Requirements  for
    education      B + 3 U

    B
    represents a high level of secondary education validated by one or
    more official certificates awarded at about the age of 18
    years.

    U
    represents a year (full-time or equivalent) of approved University
    Programme either given by a university or other recognized body at
    the university level, recognized by FEANI and included in the FEANI
    INDEX - the "List of Schools and Programmes". =
    180
    Bologna ECTS

    Requirements for Euro
    Ing

    B + 3 U) + 2 (U / E) + 2
    E

    This is I Eng
    equivalent!

     

    ECUK - IEng - IET


    ·        
    You must be a member of
    the IET before applying for professional registration. 


    ·        
    You will need to present
    evidence to demonstrate your level of competence in both your
    application form and face-to-face interview.

    • An accredited Bachelors
      degree in engineering or technology -       180 Bologna
      ECTS


     

    Evidence of your
    competence

    If you are working towards
    IEng registration you must show:

    • how you have used your
      technical and/or engineering knowledge and understanding to apply
      technology to an aspect of your work;

    • how you have applied
      theoretical and practical methods to design, develop, manufacture,
      construct, commission, operate, maintain, decommission or recycle a
      technical/engineering process, system, service or
      product;

    • where you exercised
      your       technical and commercial
      management skills      ;

    • your personal commitment to
      professional standards and recognition to obligations to society,
      the profession and the environment.

     

    Spot the
    anomaly?

    FEANI  Europe=
    IEng,

    FEANI UK =
    CEng

    By logic IEng =
    CEng!!!

     

    I am an atypical
    generalist, “Ingénieur
    chercheur”     who would like to see the U.K. ENGINEERING 2016
    REPORT     brought into line with other European PE
    rulings in order that this generation of PEs do not suffer as I
    have, at the hands of others, who have no difference in competence
    or academic attainments:


    ·        
    All BSc +2 E PEs
    meeting FEANI criteria be allowed to be registered as Eur
    Ing


    ·        
    That CEng be allowed to be
    Eur Ing and use the MEng to show specialist
    competences

    That UK PEs with BSc
    +2
    E     that meet UK Spec be automatically registered as CEng
    the day they meet ECUK criteria, with no PRA intervention -
    PRA is not an ECUK
    prerequisite


    ·        
    That IET applies the CEng
    rules & regulations each year for practicing MIET


    ·        
    That IET creates a class of
    membership that honours past ECUK registered engineers who have
    retired or moved into parallel fields of work.


    ·        
    As Moshe Waserman said about
    a PE register (for BSc PEs – “    So what I was saying to
    my fellow members in the UK maybe there is a need for something
    like that in the UK?    ”) 

    JG - as I have stated
    before.

     

    That IET members abandon
    this CEng hegemony and respect, protect and promote all PEs to
    their highest possible registration grades.

    And that from other PEIs
    that block MIET from obtaining engineering posts be made to justify
    themselves and be barred from E&T.

     

    The IET is setting up a
    stringent disciplinary courts is this to protect CEng
    Hegemony

     

    U.K. ENGINEERING 2016
    REPORT     is a first step into realignment of the
    profession; do not let it be taken over by CEng
    hegemonists.

     

    John Gowman
     MIET

    Sorry for the length of my
    statement, but this UK protectionism has cost me my career and all
    appeals have been blocked by the EU to protect a project that is
    not technically viable, but has ruined European state of the
    R&D.


    The above cases can be
    justified by the UK Official Secrets files just been made
    available.




  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Legh Richardson


    A long blog.

    There are so many
    misconceptions that some facts have to be given. I avoid the
    politics.

    Results of
     Globalisation  = Hegemony  -  
    Commodification  - Neoliberalism 

     

    What certain IET members
    would like to see revised and implemented in order to work in
    engineering.

    Re:

    Andy Millar


    ·        
    I do strongly disagree
    with the suggestion in the Discussion & Conclusions (and Exec
    Summary) that IEng / EngTech should be merged, 
    JG – They are two distinct
    professions with different training and applications. A Ceng would
    not appreciate the difference unless hes has passed through these
    metiers.


    ·        
    but in the actual
    Recommendations is the very sensible suggestion that the PEIs and
    EC should "...review other grades of registration
    and membership." (I.e. find out why people aren't applying for
    IEng and EngTech, and then decide what to
    do about it.)


    ·        
    the vast majority of
    engineers aren't members of an institution. 

    Moshe Waserman


    ·        
    Can UK engineers
    benefit from a body with the power that NSPE has in the
    USA?
    NSPE is a National
    Society of Professional Engineers.



    ·        
    Registration provides
    formal recognition of the     qualification, experience
    competency     of an engineer same as
    CEng.

    Engineers occupy positions of trust and responsibility within the
    community, industry and across government and perform a critical
    role in the design and construction of major infrastructure and in
    the mining, resources and manufacturing sectors.

    Daniel Sott


    I know for a fact that
    here in Canada that CEng doesn't mean a thing unless you can
    become registered as a PEng.     JG – This is a form of


     

    Firstly : ECUK -
    BREXIT

    Jon Prichard CEng FICE
    FInstRE, CEO of the Engineering Council, says:

    “Further to the ‘Leave’
    result in the EU referendum, the Engineering Council will continue
    to work with the professional engineering community to ensure that
    the needs of the profession, including the crucial role that
    registration plays in maintaining public confidence in engineering
    products and services, are understood by
    government. 

    **************************************


    “With regards to
    registration with FEANI as a European Engineer (EUR ING), the
    criteria are not dependent on place of residence, or location of
    study or work experience. We expect registrants who are already EUR
    ING to be able to remain on the FEANI register, with those wishing
    to become registered also being able to do so, providing they meet
    the required combination of education and
    experience.”


    Neoliberalism

    News Flash today: la
    souveraineté populaire (laquelle dit de plus en plus fortement non
    au néo-libéralisme)


    British people (who say
    more and more strongly no to Neo liberalism) This is BREXIT which
    will penalise UK PEs if the     U.K. ENGINEERING 2016
    REPORT     is not correctly prepared in the favour of
    PEs - BSc (I Eng)& FEANI Eur Ing


     

    Hegemony

     

    PEIs apply restrictive
    practices in :


    ·        
    CEng registration

    IEng registration


    ·        
    FEANI UK membership.

     

    IET
    hegemony

    Why be a member of a
    PEI  = to be CEng to gain a post in engineering by excluding
    others    :


    ·        
    C Eng is needed to gain a PE
    engineering post


    ·        
    CEng are in a recruiting
    position


    ·        
    CEng give specifications for
    recruiting to HR


    ·        
    CEng recruit mainly CEng
    first

    Rule :
    you
    must be a CEng to work as a PE now in many cases; you must be a
    member of a PEI to be CEng.

     

    Definition

    A group or class can
    achieve domination of another by cultural ideological means ex :
    BREXIT, ISIS, CENG.

    Domination
    by
    hegemony of a minority = ( CEng). Those dominated = majority (IEng
    & non CEng MIET) via consensus of the majority. This domination
    is more powerful than by force.

    By occupation of
    influential positions ie Council, Board, Advisors by those CEng not
    actively working.

    ECUK is another example
    where most decision makers are CEng.

     

    How to gain
    CEng?

    You must be a PEI
    member.

    To be A PEI member and
    CEng registered you must conform with and be approved by a
    PRA

     


    YOUR
    CONSENT    : In the course of
    contacting and liaising with the PRA you acknowledge and agree to
    the PRA contacting the Professional Registration Team to advise
    them of any dialogue which may be relevant to any current or future
    Professional Registration application. By continuing to request
    contact, you agree to these terms.

    JG see below ECUK does not
    see the need for this role.

     


     


     

    This report is a first step
    in re-establishing the importance of the cross discipline, multi
    grades professional engineer.

    We must forget the history
    and the past and strive to repair and replenish and promote our
    profession.

    The ECUK is a British
    institution for British PEs who have British needs in this global
    market that is being exploited – we have national interests to
    secure primarily.

     

    The UK needs to recruit,
    train, and educate more PEs at all levels: (JG - Specialised Crafts
    man, Technician, Engineer, Technologist).     The case has been
    stated; it needs to have a UK PE consensus and rapid
    implementation.

     

    I have brought up certain
    questions with the ECUK, being debated in these blogs, as I am not
    in the UK and excluded from normal political and civil rights. – I
    am not allowed to contact a MP or Vote.

     

    I have questioned the ECUK
    concerning :


    ·        
    Peer review on PE -ECUK
    registration;


    ·        
    the procedure of certain
    PEIs excluding other PEI members from apply for engineering
    posts


    ·        
    the true status and right to
    be IEng or CEng.


    ·        
    I question why ECUK
    registers PEs from countries that are not UK or European
    related.

     

    I have questioned practices
    and procedures that concern ECUK PE registration by UK
    PEIs.

     

    Is the Electrical – IT CEng
    group the PEIhegemon exerting undue
    influence within IET?

    This cultural hegemony "is
    hegemonic only if
    those (IEng) affected by it also consent to and struggle over its
    common sense".

     

    My advice would be, if
    you're letting someone get on your nerves that really shouldn't
    have the power, remember that they're just a fopdoodle; then carry
    on, but make your views be known.

     

    Commodification


    ·                 
    People are commodified—turned into
    objects—when working, by selling their labour on the market to an
    employer; this leads to a cultural commodification as
    "eating the other".

     

    Why register for
    CEng     – to sell your commodity
    to gain prestige and a salary above others (IEng or non ECUK
    PEs).     Students as consumers and
    higher education institutions and PEIs are ’education product’
    providers. They regard their degree solely as a qualification that
    will allow them to progress on to a well paid job.

     

    Why recruit foreign PEs
    as UK ECUK registered I Eng or CEng?     - To
    commodify.

    It is the menu of the
    day, developed by politicians, schools of commerce – MBA,
    it is
    the result of  Neo liberalism = globalisation, it leads
    to  Commodification.

     

    IET sells CEng abroad as a
    commodity, we could just sell MIET but who would buy
    that?

     

    Diploma or PE
    registration     causes problems abroad
    because it creates systems that don’t work in the country because
    they are copied from elsewhere and are not adapted to local needs
    and traditions.

    Daniel Sott
    stated this above, I have
    stated this on the French IET Community blog.

     

    In both cases the commodification of PEI
    ECUK registration results as a possible benefit lost both to the
    PEs and to society.

     


    ·                 
    We are changing to a
    knowledge based economy at the expense of training and experience
    competences.

    Many are choosing to
    focus only on preparation for the labour market and possibilities
    for maximising personal financial returns upon graduation, which is
    a negative and one-sided approach. This has also led to a decrease
    in cooperation and solidarity between individual students of
    different objectives (Technician, IEng, CEng) and an increase in
    unhealthy competition for the purpose of the fulfilment of personal
    aims.

    These are not my words –
    JG.

     


    ·        
    Mark Curtis

    I am aware of the some of
    the history, but I strongly believe a merger of the PEIs (i.e.
    IMechE, IET, ICE, RAE, IED, etc) makes an awful lot of sense to me
    –

    JG - When PEIs
    blatantly block recruiting of PEs from fellow PEIs then the ECUK
    system will not be appropriate.

     


    ·        
    PEI member ship is
    confounded with ECUK registration. A PEI is a private club, the
    ECUK is a UK Non Government organisation, where as you cannot argue
    about IET selecting its members, ECUK does not approve of selecting
    the registration of PEs.

    Therefore Peer reviews and
    sponsors is not an
    UKEC prerquisite    .

     

    Examples to back up my
    stements.

    Recruiting criteria note
    ONC, HNC, BSc,-  no CENG

    UKAEA Posts for Professional
    engineers:


    ·        
    Radwaste Interface
    Officer

    While no formal
    qualifications are required for this post an ONC,
    or similar, in a relevant subject would be considered
    advantageous.


    ·        
    UKAEA Windscale -
    Lead Project
    Engineer

    Requirements

    Ideally qualified to a
    HNC in an engineering
    discipline     or with a Project Management
    qualification


    ·        
    UKAEA Windscale 
    -    Engineering
    Manager

    Requirements

    Preferably qualified to
    degree level or
    equivalent     in a relevant engineering
    discipline,

     

    The same UK Non -Government
    Organisation UKAEA Culham had a closed shop
    approach:

    UKAEA
    -CCFE-Culham     Safety Case Managers and
    Engineers      -
    For both positions, ideally
    you will be qualified to degree level in an
    engineering or science     discipline (or have equivalent
    professional experience). You should have, or at least be working
    towards    , membership of an appropriate
    professional body.

     

    CCFE then changed its approach to
    recruiting.

    This section of UKAEA
    refused IEng as engineers, and refused CEng IET for
    mechanical posts.










    The irony of the
    situation is that the plant where the posts are advertised was
    designed and built by an IET IEng generalist whose application was
    refused for the posts calling for IMechE CEng.

     

    I went to UKAEA  to
    find out what was happening. I explained that IET was a generalist
    PEI including Mechanical engineers.  Result:

     

    Chief Engineer CCFE –
    JET : Comments on applicants CV &
    interview

    “Huge pedigree &
    experience     but no C Eng.”

    I have to supply CV’s with
    bid,     looking for C Eng – I
    MechE      -  (because he insisted
    on C Eng (I Mech E) registration.)  - see Culham job
    descriptions above

     

    After my visit they still
    called for CEng for all engineering posts but accepted IET for
    mechanical posts if you met the specification.

    This same group frog marched
    30 + PEs into IET and their CEO was given Hon Fellow
    IET.

     

    IET should respect and
    support its members.

    This happens all over
    England, it is a procedure that is not acceptable.

    Closed shop
    promotions.

    UKAEA is the UK Nuclear
    R&D Centre for Fusion and complementary Technologies; it should
    be an example of quality and standards in the UK.


     This above case is the
    reason I did not ask for IET CEng; I would have been refused a post
    as I was not IMech E!



    ECUK personal
    communication     Jon
    Prichard    :

    Sponsorship






     



    Role
    Competence






     

    Personal communication JG to
    CEO IET


    **** I suggest that IET
    should enter into negotiations with NI to
    amalgamate and to have a sound nuclear R & D background and
    Nuclear Engineering Technologist of all levels in
    IET.


     

    There are so many
    discrepancies between PEI traditional values and ECUK PE
    registration requisites; that are still implemented by the majority
    of UK PEIs.

    ECUK CEng
    registration


     

    Remember that formal
    education is just one option.

    If you do not hold a
    formal qualification, but can provide other evidence of your
    technical knowledge and understanding, you can still become
    registered.

     

    European Engineer (EUR ING)
    Registration


    Having achieved Chartered
    Engineer status, engineers are able to apply for EUR ING
    registration – a title recognised by the European Commission and in
    member states

     

    To apply for EUR ING
    registration in the UK you must be a member of a professional
    engineering institution and registered as a Chartered Engineer with
    the Engineering Council.

    JG
    Therefore a UK PE living
    outside of the UK is under UK domination.

    How to Apply for the EUR
    ING Title


    For UK, the applications
    should be sent to the appropriate Institution with the appropriate
    fee. The Institutions are listed in the section
    "    Members". A Guidance Note to
    assist in completing the form is also available to UK applicants from their
    Institution.

    I have been refused CEng
    on five occassions, ECUK agree that I should have been made CEng 30
    years ago, but ECUK has no power over
    PEIs. 

     

    EU secondary
    education

    At 18 years = France,
    baccalaureate (Scientific = 2 + languages, history, geography,
    Literature, Philosophy + physics/ chemistry mathematics ) ; Germany
    ABITUR.

    UK secondary education at 18
    years  = 3 A Levels in maths  & 2 science subjects =
    a total lack of general education. However the UK allows pupils to
    leave School at 16. GCSE is the perquisite for apprenticeships in
    Engineering.

     

    FEANI
    Registration

    Requirements  for
    education      B + 3 U

    B
    represents a high level of secondary education validated by one or
    more official certificates awarded at about the age of 18
    years.

    U
    represents a year (full-time or equivalent) of approved University
    Programme either given by a university or other recognized body at
    the university level, recognized by FEANI and included in the FEANI
    INDEX - the "List of Schools and Programmes". =
    180
    Bologna ECTS

    Requirements for Euro
    Ing

    B + 3 U) + 2 (U / E) + 2
    E

    This is I Eng
    equivalent!

     

    ECUK - IEng - IET


    ·        
    You must be a member of
    the IET before applying for professional registration. 


    ·        
    You will need to present
    evidence to demonstrate your level of competence in both your
    application form and face-to-face interview.

    • An accredited Bachelors
      degree in engineering or technology -       180 Bologna
      ECTS


     

    Evidence of your
    competence

    If you are working towards
    IEng registration you must show:

    • how you have used your
      technical and/or engineering knowledge and understanding to apply
      technology to an aspect of your work;

    • how you have applied
      theoretical and practical methods to design, develop, manufacture,
      construct, commission, operate, maintain, decommission or recycle a
      technical/engineering process, system, service or
      product;

    • where you exercised
      your       technical and commercial
      management skills      ;

    • your personal commitment to
      professional standards and recognition to obligations to society,
      the profession and the environment.

     

    Spot the
    anomaly?

    FEANI  Europe=
    IEng,

    FEANI UK =
    CEng

    By logic IEng =
    CEng!!!

     

    I am an atypical
    generalist, “Ingénieur
    chercheur”     who would like to see the U.K. ENGINEERING 2016
    REPORT     brought into line with other European PE
    rulings in order that this generation of PEs do not suffer as I
    have, at the hands of others, who have no difference in competence
    or academic attainments:


    ·        
    All BSc +2 E PEs
    meeting FEANI criteria be allowed to be registered as Eur
    Ing


    ·        
    That CEng be allowed to be
    Eur Ing and use the MEng to show specialist
    competences

    That UK PEs with BSc
    +2
    E     that meet UK Spec be automatically registered as CEng
    the day they meet ECUK criteria, with no PRA intervention -
    PRA is not an ECUK
    prerequisite


    ·        
    That IET applies the CEng
    rules & regulations each year for practicing MIET


    ·        
    That IET creates a class of
    membership that honours past ECUK registered engineers who have
    retired or moved into parallel fields of work.


    ·        
    As Moshe Waserman said about
    a PE register (for BSc PEs – “    So what I was saying to
    my fellow members in the UK maybe there is a need for something
    like that in the UK?    ”) 

    JG - as I have stated
    before.

     

    That IET members abandon
    this CEng hegemony and respect, protect and promote all PEs to
    their highest possible registration grades.

    And that from other PEIs
    that block MIET from obtaining engineering posts be made to justify
    themselves and be barred from E&T.

     

    The IET is setting up a
    stringent disciplinary courts is this to protect CEng
    Hegemony

     

    U.K. ENGINEERING 2016
    REPORT     is a first step into realignment of the
    profession; do not let it be taken over by CEng
    hegemonists.

     

    John Gowman
     MIET

    Sorry for the length of my
    statement, but this UK protectionism has cost me my career and all
    appeals have been blocked by the EU to protect a project that is
    not technically viable, but has ruined European state of the
    R&D.


    The above cases can be
    justified by the UK Official Secrets files just been made
    available.




  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Legh Richardson


    A long blog.

    There are so many
    misconceptions that some facts have to be given. I avoid the
    politics.

    Results of
     Globalisation  = Hegemony  -  
    Commodification  - Neoliberalism 

     

    What certain IET members
    would like to see revised and implemented in order to work in
    engineering.

    Re:

    Andy Millar


    ·        
    I do strongly disagree
    with the suggestion in the Discussion & Conclusions (and Exec
    Summary) that IEng / EngTech should be merged, 
    JG – They are two distinct
    professions with different training and applications. A Ceng would
    not appreciate the difference unless hes has passed through these
    metiers.


    ·        
    but in the actual
    Recommendations is the very sensible suggestion that the PEIs and
    EC should "...review other grades of registration
    and membership." (I.e. find out why people aren't applying for
    IEng and EngTech, and then decide what to
    do about it.)


    ·        
    the vast majority of
    engineers aren't members of an institution. 

    Moshe Waserman


    ·        
    Can UK engineers
    benefit from a body with the power that NSPE has in the
    USA?
    NSPE is a National
    Society of Professional Engineers.



    ·        
    Registration provides
    formal recognition of the     qualification, experience
    competency     of an engineer same as
    CEng.

    Engineers occupy positions of trust and responsibility within the
    community, industry and across government and perform a critical
    role in the design and construction of major infrastructure and in
    the mining, resources and manufacturing sectors.

    Daniel Sott


    I know for a fact that
    here in Canada that CEng doesn't mean a thing unless you can
    become registered as a PEng.     JG – This is a form of


     

    Firstly : ECUK -
    BREXIT

    Jon Prichard CEng FICE
    FInstRE, CEO of the Engineering Council, says:

    “Further to the ‘Leave’
    result in the EU referendum, the Engineering Council will continue
    to work with the professional engineering community to ensure that
    the needs of the profession, including the crucial role that
    registration plays in maintaining public confidence in engineering
    products and services, are understood by
    government. 

    **************************************


    “With regards to
    registration with FEANI as a European Engineer (EUR ING), the
    criteria are not dependent on place of residence, or location of
    study or work experience. We expect registrants who are already EUR
    ING to be able to remain on the FEANI register, with those wishing
    to become registered also being able to do so, providing they meet
    the required combination of education and
    experience.”


    Neoliberalism

    News Flash today: la
    souveraineté populaire (laquelle dit de plus en plus fortement non
    au néo-libéralisme)


    British people (who say
    more and more strongly no to Neo liberalism) This is BREXIT which
    will penalise UK PEs if the     U.K. ENGINEERING 2016
    REPORT     is not correctly prepared in the favour of
    PEs - BSc (I Eng)& FEANI Eur Ing


     

    Hegemony

     

    PEIs apply restrictive
    practices in :


    ·        
    CEng registration

    IEng registration


    ·        
    FEANI UK membership.

     

    IET
    hegemony

    Why be a member of a
    PEI  = to be CEng to gain a post in engineering by excluding
    others    :


    ·        
    C Eng is needed to gain a PE
    engineering post


    ·        
    CEng are in a recruiting
    position


    ·        
    CEng give specifications for
    recruiting to HR


    ·        
    CEng recruit mainly CEng
    first

    Rule :
    you
    must be a CEng to work as a PE now in many cases; you must be a
    member of a PEI to be CEng.

     

    Definition

    A group or class can
    achieve domination of another by cultural ideological means ex :
    BREXIT, ISIS, CENG.

    Domination
    by
    hegemony of a minority = ( CEng). Those dominated = majority (IEng
    & non CEng MIET) via consensus of the majority. This domination
    is more powerful than by force.

    By occupation of
    influential positions ie Council, Board, Advisors by those CEng not
    actively working.

    ECUK is another example
    where most decision makers are CEng.

     

    How to gain
    CEng?

    You must be a PEI
    member.

    To be A PEI member and
    CEng registered you must conform with and be approved by a
    PRA

     


    YOUR
    CONSENT    : In the course of
    contacting and liaising with the PRA you acknowledge and agree to
    the PRA contacting the Professional Registration Team to advise
    them of any dialogue which may be relevant to any current or future
    Professional Registration application. By continuing to request
    contact, you agree to these terms.

    JG see below ECUK does not
    see the need for this role.

     


     


     

    This report is a first step
    in re-establishing the importance of the cross discipline, multi
    grades professional engineer.

    We must forget the history
    and the past and strive to repair and replenish and promote our
    profession.

    The ECUK is a British
    institution for British PEs who have British needs in this global
    market that is being exploited – we have national interests to
    secure primarily.

     

    The UK needs to recruit,
    train, and educate more PEs at all levels: (JG - Specialised Crafts
    man, Technician, Engineer, Technologist).     The case has been
    stated; it needs to have a UK PE consensus and rapid
    implementation.

     

    I have brought up certain
    questions with the ECUK, being debated in these blogs, as I am not
    in the UK and excluded from normal political and civil rights. – I
    am not allowed to contact a MP or Vote.

     

    I have questioned the ECUK
    concerning :


    ·        
    Peer review on PE -ECUK
    registration;


    ·        
    the procedure of certain
    PEIs excluding other PEI members from apply for engineering
    posts


    ·        
    the true status and right to
    be IEng or CEng.


    ·        
    I question why ECUK
    registers PEs from countries that are not UK or European
    related.

     

    I have questioned practices
    and procedures that concern ECUK PE registration by UK
    PEIs.

     

    Is the Electrical – IT CEng
    group the PEIhegemon exerting undue
    influence within IET?

    This cultural hegemony "is
    hegemonic only if
    those (IEng) affected by it also consent to and struggle over its
    common sense".

     

    My advice would be, if
    you're letting someone get on your nerves that really shouldn't
    have the power, remember that they're just a fopdoodle; then carry
    on, but make your views be known.

     

    Commodification


    ·                 
    People are commodified—turned into
    objects—when working, by selling their labour on the market to an
    employer; this leads to a cultural commodification as
    "eating the other".

     

    Why register for
    CEng     – to sell your commodity
    to gain prestige and a salary above others (IEng or non ECUK
    PEs).     Students as consumers and
    higher education institutions and PEIs are ’education product’
    providers. They regard their degree solely as a qualification that
    will allow them to progress on to a well paid job.

     

    Why recruit foreign PEs
    as UK ECUK registered I Eng or CEng?     - To
    commodify.

    It is the menu of the
    day, developed by politicians, schools of commerce – MBA,
    it is
    the result of  Neo liberalism = globalisation, it leads
    to  Commodification.

     

    IET sells CEng abroad as a
    commodity, we could just sell MIET but who would buy
    that?

     

    Diploma or PE
    registration     causes problems abroad
    because it creates systems that don’t work in the country because
    they are copied from elsewhere and are not adapted to local needs
    and traditions.

    Daniel Sott
    stated this above, I have
    stated this on the French IET Community blog.

     

    In both cases the commodification of PEI
    ECUK registration results as a possible benefit lost both to the
    PEs and to society.

     


    ·                 
    We are changing to a
    knowledge based economy at the expense of training and experience
    competences.

    Many are choosing to
    focus only on preparation for the labour market and possibilities
    for maximising personal financial returns upon graduation, which is
    a negative and one-sided approach. This has also led to a decrease
    in cooperation and solidarity between individual students of
    different objectives (Technician, IEng, CEng) and an increase in
    unhealthy competition for the purpose of the fulfilment of personal
    aims.

    These are not my words –
    JG.

     


    ·        
    Mark Curtis

    I am aware of the some of
    the history, but I strongly believe a merger of the PEIs (i.e.
    IMechE, IET, ICE, RAE, IED, etc) makes an awful lot of sense to me
    –

    JG - When PEIs
    blatantly block recruiting of PEs from fellow PEIs then the ECUK
    system will not be appropriate.

     


    ·        
    PEI member ship is
    confounded with ECUK registration. A PEI is a private club, the
    ECUK is a UK Non Government organisation, where as you cannot argue
    about IET selecting its members, ECUK does not approve of selecting
    the registration of PEs.

    Therefore Peer reviews and
    sponsors is not an
    UKEC prerquisite    .

     

    Examples to back up my
    stements.

    Recruiting criteria note
    ONC, HNC, BSc,-  no CENG

    UKAEA Posts for Professional
    engineers:


    ·        
    Radwaste Interface
    Officer

    While no formal
    qualifications are required for this post an ONC,
    or similar, in a relevant subject would be considered
    advantageous.


    ·        
    UKAEA Windscale -
    Lead Project
    Engineer

    Requirements

    Ideally qualified to a
    HNC in an engineering
    discipline     or with a Project Management
    qualification


    ·        
    UKAEA Windscale 
    -    Engineering
    Manager

    Requirements

    Preferably qualified to
    degree level or
    equivalent     in a relevant engineering
    discipline,

     

    The same UK Non -Government
    Organisation UKAEA Culham had a closed shop
    approach:

    UKAEA
    -CCFE-Culham     Safety Case Managers and
    Engineers      -
    For both positions, ideally
    you will be qualified to degree level in an
    engineering or science     discipline (or have equivalent
    professional experience). You should have, or at least be working
    towards    , membership of an appropriate
    professional body.

     

    CCFE then changed its approach to
    recruiting.

    This section of UKAEA
    refused IEng as engineers, and refused CEng IET for
    mechanical posts.










    The irony of the
    situation is that the plant where the posts are advertised was
    designed and built by an IET IEng generalist whose application was
    refused for the posts calling for IMechE CEng.

     

    I went to UKAEA  to
    find out what was happening. I explained that IET was a generalist
    PEI including Mechanical engineers.  Result:

     

    Chief Engineer CCFE –
    JET : Comments on applicants CV &
    interview

    “Huge pedigree &
    experience     but no C Eng.”

    I have to supply CV’s with
    bid,     looking for C Eng – I
    MechE      -  (because he insisted
    on C Eng (I Mech E) registration.)  - see Culham job
    descriptions above

     

    After my visit they still
    called for CEng for all engineering posts but accepted IET for
    mechanical posts if you met the specification.

    This same group frog marched
    30 + PEs into IET and their CEO was given Hon Fellow
    IET.

     

    IET should respect and
    support its members.

    This happens all over
    England, it is a procedure that is not acceptable.

    Closed shop
    promotions.

    UKAEA is the UK Nuclear
    R&D Centre for Fusion and complementary Technologies; it should
    be an example of quality and standards in the UK.


     This above case is the
    reason I did not ask for IET CEng; I would have been refused a post
    as I was not IMech E!



    ECUK personal
    communication     Jon
    Prichard    :

    Sponsorship






     



    Role
    Competence






     

    Personal communication JG to
    CEO IET


    **** I suggest that IET
    should enter into negotiations with NI to
    amalgamate and to have a sound nuclear R & D background and
    Nuclear Engineering Technologist of all levels in
    IET.


     

    There are so many
    discrepancies between PEI traditional values and ECUK PE
    registration requisites; that are still implemented by the majority
    of UK PEIs.

    ECUK CEng
    registration


     

    Remember that formal
    education is just one option.

    If you do not hold a
    formal qualification, but can provide other evidence of your
    technical knowledge and understanding, you can still become
    registered.

     

    European Engineer (EUR ING)
    Registration


    Having achieved Chartered
    Engineer status, engineers are able to apply for EUR ING
    registration – a title recognised by the European Commission and in
    member states

     

    To apply for EUR ING
    registration in the UK you must be a member of a professional
    engineering institution and registered as a Chartered Engineer with
    the Engineering Council.

    JG
    Therefore a UK PE living
    outside of the UK is under UK domination.

    How to Apply for the EUR
    ING Title


    For UK, the applications
    should be sent to the appropriate Institution with the appropriate
    fee. The Institutions are listed in the section
    "    Members". A Guidance Note to
    assist in completing the form is also available to UK applicants from their
    Institution.

    I have been refused CEng
    on five occassions, ECUK agree that I should have been made CEng 30
    years ago, but ECUK has no power over
    PEIs. 

     

    EU secondary
    education

    At 18 years = France,
    baccalaureate (Scientific = 2 + languages, history, geography,
    Literature, Philosophy + physics/ chemistry mathematics ) ; Germany
    ABITUR.

    UK secondary education at 18
    years  = 3 A Levels in maths  & 2 science subjects =
    a total lack of general education. However the UK allows pupils to
    leave School at 16. GCSE is the perquisite for apprenticeships in
    Engineering.

     

    FEANI
    Registration

    Requirements  for
    education      B + 3 U

    B
    represents a high level of secondary education validated by one or
    more official certificates awarded at about the age of 18
    years.

    U
    represents a year (full-time or equivalent) of approved University
    Programme either given by a university or other recognized body at
    the university level, recognized by FEANI and included in the FEANI
    INDEX - the "List of Schools and Programmes". =
    180
    Bologna ECTS

    Requirements for Euro
    Ing

    B + 3 U) + 2 (U / E) + 2
    E

    This is I Eng
    equivalent!

     

    ECUK - IEng - IET


    ·        
    You must be a member of
    the IET before applying for professional registration. 


    ·        
    You will need to present
    evidence to demonstrate your level of competence in both your
    application form and face-to-face interview.

    • An accredited Bachelors
      degree in engineering or technology -       180 Bologna
      ECTS


     

    Evidence of your
    competence

    If you are working towards
    IEng registration you must show:

    • how you have used your
      technical and/or engineering knowledge and understanding to apply
      technology to an aspect of your work;

    • how you have applied
      theoretical and practical methods to design, develop, manufacture,
      construct, commission, operate, maintain, decommission or recycle a
      technical/engineering process, system, service or
      product;

    • where you exercised
      your       technical and commercial
      management skills      ;

    • your personal commitment to
      professional standards and recognition to obligations to society,
      the profession and the environment.

     

    Spot the
    anomaly?

    FEANI  Europe=
    IEng,

    FEANI UK =
    CEng

    By logic IEng =
    CEng!!!

     

    I am an atypical
    generalist, “Ingénieur
    chercheur”     who would like to see the U.K. ENGINEERING 2016
    REPORT     brought into line with other European PE
    rulings in order that this generation of PEs do not suffer as I
    have, at the hands of others, who have no difference in competence
    or academic attainments:


    ·        
    All BSc +2 E PEs
    meeting FEANI criteria be allowed to be registered as Eur
    Ing


    ·        
    That CEng be allowed to be
    Eur Ing and use the MEng to show specialist
    competences

    That UK PEs with BSc
    +2
    E     that meet UK Spec be automatically registered as CEng
    the day they meet ECUK criteria, with no PRA intervention -
    PRA is not an ECUK
    prerequisite


    ·        
    That IET applies the CEng
    rules & regulations each year for practicing MIET


    ·        
    That IET creates a class of
    membership that honours past ECUK registered engineers who have
    retired or moved into parallel fields of work.


    ·        
    As Moshe Waserman said about
    a PE register (for BSc PEs – “    So what I was saying to
    my fellow members in the UK maybe there is a need for something
    like that in the UK?    ”) 

    JG - as I have stated
    before.

     

    That IET members abandon
    this CEng hegemony and respect, protect and promote all PEs to
    their highest possible registration grades.

    And that from other PEIs
    that block MIET from obtaining engineering posts be made to justify
    themselves and be barred from E&T.

     

    The IET is setting up a
    stringent disciplinary courts is this to protect CEng
    Hegemony

     

    U.K. ENGINEERING 2016
    REPORT     is a first step into realignment of the
    profession; do not let it be taken over by CEng
    hegemonists.

     

    John Gowman
     MIET

    Sorry for the length of my
    statement, but this UK protectionism has cost me my career and all
    appeals have been blocked by the EU to protect a project that is
    not technically viable, but has ruined European state of the
    R&D.


    The above cases can be
    justified by the UK Official Secrets files just been made
    available.




  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Legh Richardson


    A long blog.

    There are so many
    misconceptions that some facts have to be given. I avoid the
    politics.

    Results of
     Globalisation  = Hegemony  -  
    Commodification  - Neoliberalism 

     

    What certain IET members
    would like to see revised and implemented in order to work in
    engineering.

    Re:

    Andy Millar


    ·        
    I do strongly disagree
    with the suggestion in the Discussion & Conclusions (and Exec
    Summary) that IEng / EngTech should be merged, 
    JG – They are two distinct
    professions with different training and applications. A Ceng would
    not appreciate the difference unless hes has passed through these
    metiers.


    ·        
    but in the actual
    Recommendations is the very sensible suggestion that the PEIs and
    EC should "...review other grades of registration
    and membership." (I.e. find out why people aren't applying for
    IEng and EngTech, and then decide what to
    do about it.)


    ·        
    the vast majority of
    engineers aren't members of an institution. 

    Moshe Waserman


    ·        
    Can UK engineers
    benefit from a body with the power that NSPE has in the
    USA?
    NSPE is a National
    Society of Professional Engineers.



    ·        
    Registration provides
    formal recognition of the     qualification, experience
    competency     of an engineer same as
    CEng.

    Engineers occupy positions of trust and responsibility within the
    community, industry and across government and perform a critical
    role in the design and construction of major infrastructure and in
    the mining, resources and manufacturing sectors.

    Daniel Sott


    I know for a fact that
    here in Canada that CEng doesn't mean a thing unless you can
    become registered as a PEng.     JG – This is a form of


     

    Firstly : ECUK -
    BREXIT

    Jon Prichard CEng FICE
    FInstRE, CEO of the Engineering Council, says:

    “Further to the ‘Leave’
    result in the EU referendum, the Engineering Council will continue
    to work with the professional engineering community to ensure that
    the needs of the profession, including the crucial role that
    registration plays in maintaining public confidence in engineering
    products and services, are understood by
    government. 

    **************************************


    “With regards to
    registration with FEANI as a European Engineer (EUR ING), the
    criteria are not dependent on place of residence, or location of
    study or work experience. We expect registrants who are already EUR
    ING to be able to remain on the FEANI register, with those wishing
    to become registered also being able to do so, providing they meet
    the required combination of education and
    experience.”


    Neoliberalism

    News Flash today: la
    souveraineté populaire (laquelle dit de plus en plus fortement non
    au néo-libéralisme)


    British people (who say
    more and more strongly no to Neo liberalism) This is BREXIT which
    will penalise UK PEs if the     U.K. ENGINEERING 2016
    REPORT     is not correctly prepared in the favour of
    PEs - BSc (I Eng)& FEANI Eur Ing


     

    Hegemony

     

    PEIs apply restrictive
    practices in :


    ·        
    CEng registration

    IEng registration


    ·        
    FEANI UK membership.

     

    IET
    hegemony

    Why be a member of a
    PEI  = to be CEng to gain a post in engineering by excluding
    others    :


    ·        
    C Eng is needed to gain a PE
    engineering post


    ·        
    CEng are in a recruiting
    position


    ·        
    CEng give specifications for
    recruiting to HR


    ·        
    CEng recruit mainly CEng
    first

    Rule :
    you
    must be a CEng to work as a PE now in many cases; you must be a
    member of a PEI to be CEng.

     

    Definition

    A group or class can
    achieve domination of another by cultural ideological means ex :
    BREXIT, ISIS, CENG.

    Domination
    by
    hegemony of a minority = ( CEng). Those dominated = majority (IEng
    & non CEng MIET) via consensus of the majority. This domination
    is more powerful than by force.

    By occupation of
    influential positions ie Council, Board, Advisors by those CEng not
    actively working.

    ECUK is another example
    where most decision makers are CEng.

     

    How to gain
    CEng?

    You must be a PEI
    member.

    To be A PEI member and
    CEng registered you must conform with and be approved by a
    PRA

     


    YOUR
    CONSENT    : In the course of
    contacting and liaising with the PRA you acknowledge and agree to
    the PRA contacting the Professional Registration Team to advise
    them of any dialogue which may be relevant to any current or future
    Professional Registration application. By continuing to request
    contact, you agree to these terms.

    JG see below ECUK does not
    see the need for this role.

     


     


     

    This report is a first step
    in re-establishing the importance of the cross discipline, multi
    grades professional engineer.

    We must forget the history
    and the past and strive to repair and replenish and promote our
    profession.

    The ECUK is a British
    institution for British PEs who have British needs in this global
    market that is being exploited – we have national interests to
    secure primarily.

     

    The UK needs to recruit,
    train, and educate more PEs at all levels: (JG - Specialised Crafts
    man, Technician, Engineer, Technologist).     The case has been
    stated; it needs to have a UK PE consensus and rapid
    implementation.

     

    I have brought up certain
    questions with the ECUK, being debated in these blogs, as I am not
    in the UK and excluded from normal political and civil rights. – I
    am not allowed to contact a MP or Vote.

     

    I have questioned the ECUK
    concerning :


    ·        
    Peer review on PE -ECUK
    registration;


    ·        
    the procedure of certain
    PEIs excluding other PEI members from apply for engineering
    posts


    ·        
    the true status and right to
    be IEng or CEng.


    ·        
    I question why ECUK
    registers PEs from countries that are not UK or European
    related.

     

    I have questioned practices
    and procedures that concern ECUK PE registration by UK
    PEIs.

     

    Is the Electrical – IT CEng
    group the PEIhegemon exerting undue
    influence within IET?

    This cultural hegemony "is
    hegemonic only if
    those (IEng) affected by it also consent to and struggle over its
    common sense".

     

    My advice would be, if
    you're letting someone get on your nerves that really shouldn't
    have the power, remember that they're just a fopdoodle; then carry
    on, but make your views be known.

     

    Commodification


    ·                 
    People are commodified—turned into
    objects—when working, by selling their labour on the market to an
    employer; this leads to a cultural commodification as
    "eating the other".

     

    Why register for
    CEng     – to sell your commodity
    to gain prestige and a salary above others (IEng or non ECUK
    PEs).     Students as consumers and
    higher education institutions and PEIs are ’education product’
    providers. They regard their degree solely as a qualification that
    will allow them to progress on to a well paid job.

     

    Why recruit foreign PEs
    as UK ECUK registered I Eng or CEng?     - To
    commodify.

    It is the menu of the
    day, developed by politicians, schools of commerce – MBA,
    it is
    the result of  Neo liberalism = globalisation, it leads
    to  Commodification.

     

    IET sells CEng abroad as a
    commodity, we could just sell MIET but who would buy
    that?

     

    Diploma or PE
    registration     causes problems abroad
    because it creates systems that don’t work in the country because
    they are copied from elsewhere and are not adapted to local needs
    and traditions.

    Daniel Sott
    stated this above, I have
    stated this on the French IET Community blog.

     

    In both cases the commodification of PEI
    ECUK registration results as a possible benefit lost both to the
    PEs and to society.

     


    ·                 
    We are changing to a
    knowledge based economy at the expense of training and experience
    competences.

    Many are choosing to
    focus only on preparation for the labour market and possibilities
    for maximising personal financial returns upon graduation, which is
    a negative and one-sided approach. This has also led to a decrease
    in cooperation and solidarity between individual students of
    different objectives (Technician, IEng, CEng) and an increase in
    unhealthy competition for the purpose of the fulfilment of personal
    aims.

    These are not my words –
    JG.

     


    ·        
    Mark Curtis

    I am aware of the some of
    the history, but I strongly believe a merger of the PEIs (i.e.
    IMechE, IET, ICE, RAE, IED, etc) makes an awful lot of sense to me
    –

    JG - When PEIs
    blatantly block recruiting of PEs from fellow PEIs then the ECUK
    system will not be appropriate.

     


    ·        
    PEI member ship is
    confounded with ECUK registration. A PEI is a private club, the
    ECUK is a UK Non Government organisation, where as you cannot argue
    about IET selecting its members, ECUK does not approve of selecting
    the registration of PEs.

    Therefore Peer reviews and
    sponsors is not an
    UKEC prerquisite    .

     

    Examples to back up my
    stements.

    Recruiting criteria note
    ONC, HNC, BSc,-  no CENG

    UKAEA Posts for Professional
    engineers:


    ·        
    Radwaste Interface
    Officer

    While no formal
    qualifications are required for this post an ONC,
    or similar, in a relevant subject would be considered
    advantageous.


    ·        
    UKAEA Windscale -
    Lead Project
    Engineer

    Requirements

    Ideally qualified to a
    HNC in an engineering
    discipline     or with a Project Management
    qualification


    ·        
    UKAEA Windscale 
    -    Engineering
    Manager

    Requirements

    Preferably qualified to
    degree level or
    equivalent     in a relevant engineering
    discipline,

     

    The same UK Non -Government
    Organisation UKAEA Culham had a closed shop
    approach:

    UKAEA
    -CCFE-Culham     Safety Case Managers and
    Engineers      -
    For both positions, ideally
    you will be qualified to degree level in an
    engineering or science     discipline (or have equivalent
    professional experience). You should have, or at least be working
    towards    , membership of an appropriate
    professional body.

     

    CCFE then changed its approach to
    recruiting.

    This section of UKAEA
    refused IEng as engineers, and refused CEng IET for
    mechanical posts.










    The irony of the
    situation is that the plant where the posts are advertised was
    designed and built by an IET IEng generalist whose application was
    refused for the posts calling for IMechE CEng.

     

    I went to UKAEA  to
    find out what was happening. I explained that IET was a generalist
    PEI including Mechanical engineers.  Result:

     

    Chief Engineer CCFE –
    JET : Comments on applicants CV &
    interview

    “Huge pedigree &
    experience     but no C Eng.”

    I have to supply CV’s with
    bid,     looking for C Eng – I
    MechE      -  (because he insisted
    on C Eng (I Mech E) registration.)  - see Culham job
    descriptions above

     

    After my visit they still
    called for CEng for all engineering posts but accepted IET for
    mechanical posts if you met the specification.

    This same group frog marched
    30 + PEs into IET and their CEO was given Hon Fellow
    IET.

     

    IET should respect and
    support its members.

    This happens all over
    England, it is a procedure that is not acceptable.

    Closed shop
    promotions.

    UKAEA is the UK Nuclear
    R&D Centre for Fusion and complementary Technologies; it should
    be an example of quality and standards in the UK.


     This above case is the
    reason I did not ask for IET CEng; I would have been refused a post
    as I was not IMech E!



    ECUK personal
    communication     Jon
    Prichard    :

    Sponsorship






     



    Role
    Competence






     

    Personal communication JG to
    CEO IET


    **** I suggest that IET
    should enter into negotiations with NI to
    amalgamate and to have a sound nuclear R & D background and
    Nuclear Engineering Technologist of all levels in
    IET.


     

    There are so many
    discrepancies between PEI traditional values and ECUK PE
    registration requisites; that are still implemented by the majority
    of UK PEIs.

    ECUK CEng
    registration


     

    Remember that formal
    education is just one option.

    If you do not hold a
    formal qualification, but can provide other evidence of your
    technical knowledge and understanding, you can still become
    registered.

     

    European Engineer (EUR ING)
    Registration


    Having achieved Chartered
    Engineer status, engineers are able to apply for EUR ING
    registration – a title recognised by the European Commission and in
    member states

     

    To apply for EUR ING
    registration in the UK you must be a member of a professional
    engineering institution and registered as a Chartered Engineer with
    the Engineering Council.

    JG
    Therefore a UK PE living
    outside of the UK is under UK domination.

    How to Apply for the EUR
    ING Title


    For UK, the applications
    should be sent to the appropriate Institution with the appropriate
    fee. The Institutions are listed in the section
    "    Members". A Guidance Note to
    assist in completing the form is also available to UK applicants from their
    Institution.

    I have been refused CEng
    on five occassions, ECUK agree that I should have been made CEng 30
    years ago, but ECUK has no power over
    PEIs. 

     

    EU secondary
    education

    At 18 years = France,
    baccalaureate (Scientific = 2 + languages, history, geography,
    Literature, Philosophy + physics/ chemistry mathematics ) ; Germany
    ABITUR.

    UK secondary education at 18
    years  = 3 A Levels in maths  & 2 science subjects =
    a total lack of general education. However the UK allows pupils to
    leave School at 16. GCSE is the perquisite for apprenticeships in
    Engineering.

     

    FEANI
    Registration

    Requirements  for
    education      B + 3 U

    B
    represents a high level of secondary education validated by one or
    more official certificates awarded at about the age of 18
    years.

    U
    represents a year (full-time or equivalent) of approved University
    Programme either given by a university or other recognized body at
    the university level, recognized by FEANI and included in the FEANI
    INDEX - the "List of Schools and Programmes". =
    180
    Bologna ECTS

    Requirements for Euro
    Ing

    B + 3 U) + 2 (U / E) + 2
    E

    This is I Eng
    equivalent!

     

    ECUK - IEng - IET


    ·        
    You must be a member of
    the IET before applying for professional registration. 


    ·        
    You will need to present
    evidence to demonstrate your level of competence in both your
    application form and face-to-face interview.

    • An accredited Bachelors
      degree in engineering or technology -       180 Bologna
      ECTS


     

    Evidence of your
    competence

    If you are working towards
    IEng registration you must show:

    • how you have used your
      technical and/or engineering knowledge and understanding to apply
      technology to an aspect of your work;

    • how you have applied
      theoretical and practical methods to design, develop, manufacture,
      construct, commission, operate, maintain, decommission or recycle a
      technical/engineering process, system, service or
      product;

    • where you exercised
      your       technical and commercial
      management skills      ;

    • your personal commitment to
      professional standards and recognition to obligations to society,
      the profession and the environment.

     

    Spot the
    anomaly?

    FEANI  Europe=
    IEng,

    FEANI UK =
    CEng

    By logic IEng =
    CEng!!!

     

    I am an atypical
    generalist, “Ingénieur
    chercheur”     who would like to see the U.K. ENGINEERING 2016
    REPORT     brought into line with other European PE
    rulings in order that this generation of PEs do not suffer as I
    have, at the hands of others, who have no difference in competence
    or academic attainments:


    ·        
    All BSc +2 E PEs
    meeting FEANI criteria be allowed to be registered as Eur
    Ing


    ·        
    That CEng be allowed to be
    Eur Ing and use the MEng to show specialist
    competences

    That UK PEs with BSc
    +2
    E     that meet UK Spec be automatically registered as CEng
    the day they meet ECUK criteria, with no PRA intervention -
    PRA is not an ECUK
    prerequisite


    ·        
    That IET applies the CEng
    rules & regulations each year for practicing MIET


    ·        
    That IET creates a class of
    membership that honours past ECUK registered engineers who have
    retired or moved into parallel fields of work.


    ·        
    As Moshe Waserman said about
    a PE register (for BSc PEs – “    So what I was saying to
    my fellow members in the UK maybe there is a need for something
    like that in the UK?    ”) 

    JG - as I have stated
    before.

     

    That IET members abandon
    this CEng hegemony and respect, protect and promote all PEs to
    their highest possible registration grades.

    And that from other PEIs
    that block MIET from obtaining engineering posts be made to justify
    themselves and be barred from E&T.

     

    The IET is setting up a
    stringent disciplinary courts is this to protect CEng
    Hegemony

     

    U.K. ENGINEERING 2016
    REPORT     is a first step into realignment of the
    profession; do not let it be taken over by CEng
    hegemonists.

     

    John Gowman
     MIET

    Sorry for the length of my
    statement, but this UK protectionism has cost me my career and all
    appeals have been blocked by the EU to protect a project that is
    not technically viable, but has ruined European state of the
    R&D.


    The above cases can be
    justified by the UK Official Secrets files just been made
    available.




  • 0
    Just to correct one factual point in John's posting above:

    "To be A PEI member and CEng registered you must conform with and be approved by a PRA"

    No you don't. But if you want you may choose to use a PRA to help you with your application. I think of us like barristers (except free of charge smiley), we may be able to help you present your case more clearly, due to the fact that we have seen lots of other applications and we've been trained in the process.


    But you don't have to use us, and even if you do you don't have to take our advice. However, we're around, free and willing should you want to.


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Legh Richardson

    Andy, 

    I have
    simply copied statements from IET or ECUK documents.

    The whole
    problem with the UK system of PE registration is that an Engineer
    after having spent endless years of academic study, having passed
    all his examinations, having been trained in an apprenticeship or
    work placement, can be refused ECUK PE registration because his
    face does not fit.

    I spoke to
    ECUK they reconise that there is a real problem in the UK. ECUK has
    no power, it is the PEIs who make the rules, ECUK has no say in
    what happens in a PEI. They said I should have been CEng 30 years
    ago.



    Then there
    is the case of certain PEI members going beyond the limits in
    recruiting by demanding that you should be a member of their
    particular PEI.

    The case I
    gave was a Chief Engineer who refused to recruit MIET for
    mechanical posts, I had his position 20 yeras ago and I designed
    & built his machine. Then IET accepted his apprentices and
    published non peer reviewed articles in E&T.




    The U.K. ENGINEERING 2016 REPORT is adressing that
    problem.

    The
    problem is a very large majority of UK PEs at BSc level are not
    registered, and not interested in PEIs



    The second
    problem is the CEng hegemony. where a minority who concider them
    selves above all others control all the strings.



    One thing
    at a time, what happened to me must not happen again.



    IET is the
    only generalist PEI, it should concentrate on promoting the
    profession in general and all grades of engineering &
    technology in particular.

    I have
    analysed what is happening, going global increases our finances and
    prestige, at the expense of the UK PEs.

    I consider
    that UK PEIs have failed by this registration competition, which is
    not needed.



    IET in
    France has been a closed shop for a few Electricals, it does
    nothing for PEs in France - look at the French community, apart
    from Tuxedo dinner parties, not much happens. 

    IET is
    ilegal in France and Belgium as all charities have to be registered
    under an owner.



    Look at
    the engineering blogs, no one is interested in engineering.

    IET
    volunteers could be better satisfied by promoting Technology and
    organising activities.



    There are
    major elections in Europe, great change could happen very soon - or
    nothing. 

    PE
    registration is following this trend in 2006 we had the chance to
    register IEng as PEs in Europe, the UK (CEng-) PEIs refused.



    I am
    retired, and have a major battle with Europe on my hands, it is for
    your generation to analyse the U.K. ENGINEERING 2016 REPORT
    report and make it work for the majority PEs (BSc) whatever you
    want to call them, and give them a PE passport to Europe - FEANI
    registration.



    Look at
    E&T April 2017 page p60 - insert, it is a special case. I
    helped train the Chinese nuc engineers and corrected the design for
    the UK project. There are no PEs capable of handling this and many
    other major projects anymore.

    The
    government has stepped in where PEIs should have been
    leading.



    A major
    new step is being made, academic led apprenticeships at all grades
    and and many horizontal disciplines.

    This what
    I went through and the UK destroyed. you could lead this new
    approach to an old winning method, using new technolog. All
    technology today is IT based, not always to the best
    advantage.



    People on
    this blog have worked outside of the UK, they have a different view
    of what is happening. 

    It is a UK
    problem; it needs a UK solution, but Technology is global and the
    UK has to fit in; not control.



    I waste my
    time reading University courses and bizare subjects, what is
    happening with PEIs and CEng, has been happening else where; there
    are similarities which politicians and academics have studied, and
    unscroupulous people have taken to their advantage.



    We need to
    end this obscure PE registration and get back to engineering which
    has been lost in the UK.



    As you
    have noted, I have tried to provoke people, to provoke them into
    analysing, questioning and acting for a better future for our PEs
    that need help from volunteers in learning about the engineering
    global business.



    John
    Gowman



  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Legh Richardson

    Andy, 

    I have
    simply copied statements from IET or ECUK documents.

    The whole
    problem with the UK system of PE registration is that an Engineer
    after having spent endless years of academic study, having passed
    all his examinations, having been trained in an apprenticeship or
    work placement, can be refused ECUK PE registration because his
    face does not fit.

    I spoke to
    ECUK they reconise that there is a real problem in the UK. ECUK has
    no power, it is the PEIs who make the rules, ECUK has no say in
    what happens in a PEI. They said I should have been CEng 30 years
    ago.



    Then there
    is the case of certain PEI members going beyond the limits in
    recruiting by demanding that you should be a member of their
    particular PEI.

    The case I
    gave was a Chief Engineer who refused to recruit MIET for
    mechanical posts, I had his position 20 yeras ago and I designed
    & built his machine. Then IET accepted his apprentices and
    published non peer reviewed articles in E&T.




    The U.K. ENGINEERING 2016 REPORT is adressing that
    problem.

    The
    problem is a very large majority of UK PEs at BSc level are not
    registered, and not interested in PEIs



    The second
    problem is the CEng hegemony. where a minority who concider them
    selves above all others control all the strings.



    One thing
    at a time, what happened to me must not happen again.



    IET is the
    only generalist PEI, it should concentrate on promoting the
    profession in general and all grades of engineering &
    technology in particular.

    I have
    analysed what is happening, going global increases our finances and
    prestige, at the expense of the UK PEs.

    I consider
    that UK PEIs have failed by this registration competition, which is
    not needed.



    IET in
    France has been a closed shop for a few Electricals, it does
    nothing for PEs in France - look at the French community, apart
    from Tuxedo dinner parties, not much happens. 

    IET is
    ilegal in France and Belgium as all charities have to be registered
    under an owner.



    Look at
    the engineering blogs, no one is interested in engineering.

    IET
    volunteers could be better satisfied by promoting Technology and
    organising activities.



    There are
    major elections in Europe, great change could happen very soon - or
    nothing. 

    PE
    registration is following this trend in 2006 we had the chance to
    register IEng as PEs in Europe, the UK (CEng-) PEIs refused.



    I am
    retired, and have a major battle with Europe on my hands, it is for
    your generation to analyse the U.K. ENGINEERING 2016 REPORT
    report and make it work for the majority PEs (BSc) whatever you
    want to call them, and give them a PE passport to Europe - FEANI
    registration.



    Look at
    E&T April 2017 page p60 - insert, it is a special case. I
    helped train the Chinese nuc engineers and corrected the design for
    the UK project. There are no PEs capable of handling this and many
    other major projects anymore.

    The
    government has stepped in where PEIs should have been
    leading.



    A major
    new step is being made, academic led apprenticeships at all grades
    and and many horizontal disciplines.

    This what
    I went through and the UK destroyed. you could lead this new
    approach to an old winning method, using new technolog. All
    technology today is IT based, not always to the best
    advantage.



    People on
    this blog have worked outside of the UK, they have a different view
    of what is happening. 

    It is a UK
    problem; it needs a UK solution, but Technology is global and the
    UK has to fit in; not control.



    I waste my
    time reading University courses and bizare subjects, what is
    happening with PEIs and CEng, has been happening else where; there
    are similarities which politicians and academics have studied, and
    unscroupulous people have taken to their advantage.



    We need to
    end this obscure PE registration and get back to engineering which
    has been lost in the UK.



    As you
    have noted, I have tried to provoke people, to provoke them into
    analysing, questioning and acting for a better future for our PEs
    that need help from volunteers in learning about the engineering
    global business.



    John
    Gowman



  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Legh Richardson

    Andy, 

    I have
    simply copied statements from IET or ECUK documents.

    The whole
    problem with the UK system of PE registration is that an Engineer
    after having spent endless years of academic study, having passed
    all his examinations, having been trained in an apprenticeship or
    work placement, can be refused ECUK PE registration because his
    face does not fit.

    I spoke to
    ECUK they reconise that there is a real problem in the UK. ECUK has
    no power, it is the PEIs who make the rules, ECUK has no say in
    what happens in a PEI. They said I should have been CEng 30 years
    ago.



    Then there
    is the case of certain PEI members going beyond the limits in
    recruiting by demanding that you should be a member of their
    particular PEI.

    The case I
    gave was a Chief Engineer who refused to recruit MIET for
    mechanical posts, I had his position 20 yeras ago and I designed
    & built his machine. Then IET accepted his apprentices and
    published non peer reviewed articles in E&T.




    The U.K. ENGINEERING 2016 REPORT is adressing that
    problem.

    The
    problem is a very large majority of UK PEs at BSc level are not
    registered, and not interested in PEIs



    The second
    problem is the CEng hegemony. where a minority who concider them
    selves above all others control all the strings.



    One thing
    at a time, what happened to me must not happen again.



    IET is the
    only generalist PEI, it should concentrate on promoting the
    profession in general and all grades of engineering &
    technology in particular.

    I have
    analysed what is happening, going global increases our finances and
    prestige, at the expense of the UK PEs.

    I consider
    that UK PEIs have failed by this registration competition, which is
    not needed.



    IET in
    France has been a closed shop for a few Electricals, it does
    nothing for PEs in France - look at the French community, apart
    from Tuxedo dinner parties, not much happens. 

    IET is
    ilegal in France and Belgium as all charities have to be registered
    under an owner.



    Look at
    the engineering blogs, no one is interested in engineering.

    IET
    volunteers could be better satisfied by promoting Technology and
    organising activities.



    There are
    major elections in Europe, great change could happen very soon - or
    nothing. 

    PE
    registration is following this trend in 2006 we had the chance to
    register IEng as PEs in Europe, the UK (CEng-) PEIs refused.



    I am
    retired, and have a major battle with Europe on my hands, it is for
    your generation to analyse the U.K. ENGINEERING 2016 REPORT
    report and make it work for the majority PEs (BSc) whatever you
    want to call them, and give them a PE passport to Europe - FEANI
    registration.



    Look at
    E&T April 2017 page p60 - insert, it is a special case. I
    helped train the Chinese nuc engineers and corrected the design for
    the UK project. There are no PEs capable of handling this and many
    other major projects anymore.

    The
    government has stepped in where PEIs should have been
    leading.



    A major
    new step is being made, academic led apprenticeships at all grades
    and and many horizontal disciplines.

    This what
    I went through and the UK destroyed. you could lead this new
    approach to an old winning method, using new technolog. All
    technology today is IT based, not always to the best
    advantage.



    People on
    this blog have worked outside of the UK, they have a different view
    of what is happening. 

    It is a UK
    problem; it needs a UK solution, but Technology is global and the
    UK has to fit in; not control.



    I waste my
    time reading University courses and bizare subjects, what is
    happening with PEIs and CEng, has been happening else where; there
    are similarities which politicians and academics have studied, and
    unscroupulous people have taken to their advantage.



    We need to
    end this obscure PE registration and get back to engineering which
    has been lost in the UK.



    As you
    have noted, I have tried to provoke people, to provoke them into
    analysing, questioning and acting for a better future for our PEs
    that need help from volunteers in learning about the engineering
    global business.



    John
    Gowman



  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Legh Richardson

    Andy, 

    I have
    simply copied statements from IET or ECUK documents.

    The whole
    problem with the UK system of PE registration is that an Engineer
    after having spent endless years of academic study, having passed
    all his examinations, having been trained in an apprenticeship or
    work placement, can be refused ECUK PE registration because his
    face does not fit.

    I spoke to
    ECUK they reconise that there is a real problem in the UK. ECUK has
    no power, it is the PEIs who make the rules, ECUK has no say in
    what happens in a PEI. They said I should have been CEng 30 years
    ago.



    Then there
    is the case of certain PEI members going beyond the limits in
    recruiting by demanding that you should be a member of their
    particular PEI.

    The case I
    gave was a Chief Engineer who refused to recruit MIET for
    mechanical posts, I had his position 20 yeras ago and I designed
    & built his machine. Then IET accepted his apprentices and
    published non peer reviewed articles in E&T.




    The U.K. ENGINEERING 2016 REPORT is adressing that
    problem.

    The
    problem is a very large majority of UK PEs at BSc level are not
    registered, and not interested in PEIs



    The second
    problem is the CEng hegemony. where a minority who concider them
    selves above all others control all the strings.



    One thing
    at a time, what happened to me must not happen again.



    IET is the
    only generalist PEI, it should concentrate on promoting the
    profession in general and all grades of engineering &
    technology in particular.

    I have
    analysed what is happening, going global increases our finances and
    prestige, at the expense of the UK PEs.

    I consider
    that UK PEIs have failed by this registration competition, which is
    not needed.



    IET in
    France has been a closed shop for a few Electricals, it does
    nothing for PEs in France - look at the French community, apart
    from Tuxedo dinner parties, not much happens. 

    IET is
    ilegal in France and Belgium as all charities have to be registered
    under an owner.



    Look at
    the engineering blogs, no one is interested in engineering.

    IET
    volunteers could be better satisfied by promoting Technology and
    organising activities.



    There are
    major elections in Europe, great change could happen very soon - or
    nothing. 

    PE
    registration is following this trend in 2006 we had the chance to
    register IEng as PEs in Europe, the UK (CEng-) PEIs refused.



    I am
    retired, and have a major battle with Europe on my hands, it is for
    your generation to analyse the U.K. ENGINEERING 2016 REPORT
    report and make it work for the majority PEs (BSc) whatever you
    want to call them, and give them a PE passport to Europe - FEANI
    registration.



    Look at
    E&T April 2017 page p60 - insert, it is a special case. I
    helped train the Chinese nuc engineers and corrected the design for
    the UK project. There are no PEs capable of handling this and many
    other major projects anymore.

    The
    government has stepped in where PEIs should have been
    leading.



    A major
    new step is being made, academic led apprenticeships at all grades
    and and many horizontal disciplines.

    This what
    I went through and the UK destroyed. you could lead this new
    approach to an old winning method, using new technolog. All
    technology today is IT based, not always to the best
    advantage.



    People on
    this blog have worked outside of the UK, they have a different view
    of what is happening. 

    It is a UK
    problem; it needs a UK solution, but Technology is global and the
    UK has to fit in; not control.



    I waste my
    time reading University courses and bizare subjects, what is
    happening with PEIs and CEng, has been happening else where; there
    are similarities which politicians and academics have studied, and
    unscroupulous people have taken to their advantage.



    We need to
    end this obscure PE registration and get back to engineering which
    has been lost in the UK.



    As you
    have noted, I have tried to provoke people, to provoke them into
    analysing, questioning and acting for a better future for our PEs
    that need help from volunteers in learning about the engineering
    global business.



    John
    Gowman



  • 0
    John,

    Andy is correct in saying you have made an error in your statement. I don't know where you copied it from but I suspect that you have accidentally changed a letter and it should read "be approved by a PRI", that is a Professional Registration Interview. This is a requirement of the Engineering Council - UKSpec states "For would-be Incorporated Engineers and Chartered Engineers, a formal interview with the assessors is always part of the process."

    Alasdair Anderson

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