Following on from the UK Engineering Report 2016 (and the discussion of same in this forum) and the adequacy or not of current efforts to educate and train, and to encourage the registration of our future engineers, I am intrigued about a “new model in technology and engineering” (NMiTE http://www.nmite.org.uk ). It is a new University that is to focus on the teaching of engineering. In a recent press release, it says: “At NMiTE we believe that engineering education can be different. We’re here to unlock the creativity and drive of Britain’s next generation – the Passioneers – the designers and builders, problem solvers and innovators who will shape our future. We’re establishing a new model of high-value engineering education: Creating a beacon institution to help address the engineering skills shortage that threatens to hobble the UK’s ability to compete globally. With a new approach to learning – based on real-world problem solving and the blending of high quality engineering, design, liberal arts and humanities with communication and employability skills targeted at the growth sectors of the future. Located on a new and different type of campus – designed for inspiration, collaboration and a deep connection to the global community. And reinforced by an innovation ecosystem of global corporations & SME entrepreneurs, coupled with global universities, not just to invest, but to contribute knowledge and expertise – with New Model students at its centre. We’re shaping an institution to create and deliver 21st century engineers – catalysts for innovation and change – a new model generation of emotionally intelligent entrepreneurs, innovators, employees and leaders for the future." Two things strike me as very different about this proposition: Its motto is “no lectures, no exams, no text books” (!). It plans to be very practically-based, largely conducted within real industry. Apparently, it will also have no departments, no faculties, no tenure, no Council. Instead, it’ll have “ teaching teams designed around the delivery of our unique engineering and Human Interaction curriculum ” (developed by an impressive, international, and overwhelmingly academic array of advisors and partners). It’s located in the city of Hereford (admittedly partly a personal one as a resident of Herefordshire for over 30 years). It is a city by virtue of its cathedral but it is one of the smaller cities in the UK with a population of just over 50k, and is in England's first or second most rural county (depending on how you rank it). Hereford’s engineering heritage is largely unremarkable as it is known more for its agricultural and food output (beef, potatoes, strawberries, apples, cider(!), beer, etc.) and of being home to the UK's elite special forces regiments. It has engineering history in munitions production from during WWII and it's current engineering association is with food production, double-glazing, Morgan chassis and JCB cab manufacture, insulation material forming, and that’s largely it. So, not the most obvious choice to base a new Advanced Engineering University then! The NMiTE project has been described (The Times 6 th Sep 2016) as “ at worst an intriguing experiment and at best an innovative template that traditional universities might learn from”. What do you think? As an aside, I have seen nothing of NMiTE in these forums or indeed on the IET website – yet, apparently (and quite rightly) the IET has been an advisor/contributor/supporter. As a footnote, I would very much like to reach out and connect with any IET members/fellows that are/have been involved in NMiTE with a view of my getting involved too.

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A new model of high-value engineering education

Following on from the UK Engineering Report 2016 (and the discussion of same in this forum) and the adequacy or not of current efforts to educate and train, and to encourage the registration of our future engineers, I am intrigued about a “new model in technology and engineering” (NMiTE http://www.nmite.org.uk). It is a new University that is to focus on the teaching of engineering.

In a recent press release, it says:

“At NMiTE we believe that engineering education can be different.
We’re here to unlock the creativity and drive of Britain’s next generation – the Passioneers – the designers and builders, problem solvers and innovators who will shape our future.

We’re establishing a new model of high-value engineering education:

Creating a beacon institution to help address the engineering skills shortage that threatens to hobble the UK’s ability to compete globally.

With a new approach to learning – based on real-world problem solving and the blending of high quality engineering, design, liberal arts and humanities with communication and employability skills targeted at the growth sectors of the future.

Located on a new and different type of campus – designed for inspiration, collaboration and a deep connection to the global community.

And reinforced by an innovation ecosystem of global corporations & SME entrepreneurs, coupled with global universities, not just to invest, but to contribute knowledge and expertise – with New Model students at its centre.

We’re shaping an institution to create and deliver 21st century engineers – catalysts for innovation and change – a new model generation of emotionally intelligent entrepreneurs, innovators, employees and leaders for the future."

Two things strike me as very different about this proposition:

Its motto is “no lectures, no exams, no text books” (!). It plans to be very practically-based, largely conducted within real industry.

Apparently, it will also have no departments, no faculties, no tenure, no Council. Instead, it’ll have “teaching teams designed around the delivery of our unique engineering and Human Interaction curriculum” (developed by an impressive, international, and overwhelmingly academic array of advisors and partners).

It’s located in the city of Hereford (admittedly partly a personal one as a resident of Herefordshire for over 30 years).

It is a city by virtue of its cathedral but it is one of the smaller cities in the UK with a population of just over 50k, and is in England's first or second most rural county (depending on how you rank it). Hereford’s engineering heritage is largely unremarkable as it is known more for its agricultural and food output (beef, potatoes, strawberries, apples, cider(!), beer, etc.) and of being home to the UK's elite special forces regiments. It has engineering history in munitions production from during WWII and it's current engineering association is with food production, double-glazing, Morgan chassis and JCB cab manufacture, insulation material forming, and that’s largely it. So, not the most obvious choice to base a new Advanced Engineering University then!

The NMiTE project has been described (The Times 6^th Sep 2016) as “at worst an intriguing experiment and at best an innovative template that traditional universities might learn from”.

What do you think?

As an aside, I have seen nothing of NMiTE in these forums or indeed on the IET website – yet, apparently (and quite rightly) the IET has been an advisor/contributor/supporter.

As a footnote, I would very much like to reach out and connect with any IET members/fellows that are/have been involved in NMiTE with a view of my getting involved too.

0 Lisa Miles over 7 years ago

How about designating “status” a swear word within our community. Would that be a quick win?

I can add it to our profanity filter if you wish...?
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0 Andy Millar over 7 years ago

John Gowman:

Note on EPR we could not use any engineers between 35 to 55. They did not have the experience or the competences needed nor the high-value engineering education.

Having been round the block a few times I've heard statements along these lines made many a time. Can I just throw in that across a range of different industries and levels I've worked with excellent engineers representing every imaginable age (ok, over 16!), qualification, school background, career history, "class" (whatever that is), sex, gender, colour, nationality, height, weight, shoe size...I have (as I occasionally mention ) also regularly met employers who say "we don't take in people like xxx because they don't make good engineers". Oh well, their choice and their loss! My guideline for recruiting, which has always worked well, is that "not everyone can be a great engineer, but a great engineer can come from anywhere" (to repeat my favourite adapted quote form Ratatouille )
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0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago

Engineering is also global, in this aspect Brexit or not, the US, UK, India, Russia, China, Malasia etc are all co-dependent.

Industry for decades now adopted distributed approach, a product is developed, tested, and produced in multiple distributed geographic locations.

Engineers a lot of times are members of co-located and geographically distributed teams. While it's more common in Software Engineering and software is everywhere.

I see the same in Automotive, Financial, Telecom and many other industries.

For Software Engineers and Product Engineers, working globally with distributed or remote teams are inescapable, business and industry leaders state this is due to the growing demand and a limited number of high-quality software engineers in Europe and the US.

So at this time Industry need globally working teams that exist for success and high performance because great teams build great products.
High performing teams can accelerate the transformation towards becoming a high performing organization.

What role each county wants to play and how competitive it wants to be is work in progress.

In the STEM events here in the US, IET is proudly represented by it volunteers.

I attended such event(thanks to IET SCal team), some 20 different societies and institutes were there, it was hosted at Northrop Groman corp in Torrance CA, USA.

Parents came with their children. every boot had interesting information to offer to the visitors, the event was filled with lectures from JPL, NASA on interesting subjects

such as Curiosity 2020 Mars mission and new features and tasks, The new telescope that is going to be launched into space in 2018, a clean room tour with actually seeing Engineers working on the gigantic telescope,

IET US colaborates strongly with IEEE in the US and many joint events promote networking and learning.
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0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago
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0 Roy Bowdler over 7 years ago

The social mobility report that I referred to contained the following

Sheffield Hallam is one of the universities leading the way with degree apprenticeships, but has identified low levels of diversity among apprentices. The university found that many employers apply their traditional graduate recruiting model to hiring apprentices and often demand very high levels of social capital and very high academic grades – above the average requirement for a degree at Sheffield Hallam. The university decided to work with employers to encourage and enable them to recruit from a broader pool of applicants.

This allows me to emphasise that my argument isn’t an attempt to attack on academic institutions, we are all in this together. What it also highlights is that those who have competed for a Degree Apprenticeship and who will mostly be more capable in early career than their age group peers from full-time courses such as MEng, will be rightly indignant and dismissive of any who may seek to deem them “second class”. From approximately 6-8 years into career, both pathways should lead to overlapping levels of performance close to a sensible threshold for chartered recognition. Differences in academic syllabuses studied, may be detectable in performance but this could cut either way, depending on the role. Sydney may be better optimised than Washington or vice-versa.

The anecdote from the report also suggests that many employers have become set in their thinking the "traditional graduate recruiting model", wasn't much of a "tradition" at all in many industries until the last 25 years. During that time many HR professionals may also have developed assumptions, perhaps affiliating with the Association of Graduate Recruiters. I hadn't looked into them for a while and when I did I found.

As of today (28th Sept 2017) The Association of Graduate Recruiters (AGR) has been renamed as the Institute of Student Employers (ISE), reflecting a change in member needs since the organisation was formed nearly 50 years ago (1968). The change to the ISE reflects that the majority of its employer members take a broader approach to how they recruit and develop emerging talent, hiring school leavers, apprentices and interns alongside graduates.
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0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago in reply to Chris Pearson

Scott,

Do not count on UK Government.

Secondly, schools are faced with a results problem, and the teaching staff have litle idea of what engineering or technology really means and what education and training our future technologists need. Like military staff, they apply, or are disciplined.

The UK educational system (Wales has an optional bacalaureate system) needs overhauling. I am reading those university courses I was not allowed to study when younger, I wish i had access to this knowledge earlier.

Thee UK educational system needs to be broader before specialising. Engineers have a huge culture defficit unless they read after qualifying.

How can the careers advisers help children when confronted by the mass of uncordinated advisors that knock on their doors.

How many PEIs advise, how many other professions advise ? It must be hundreds!

We need not only a  A new model of high-value engineering education, we need a new model of UK of high-value general education.

I attended a UK experimental school, it was so good that the government closed the system down - a threat to private education.

I have assisted in "European School" teaching which is about as good as any private school world wide. It costs nothing to run but upsets the status quo.

As long as we have a discordinated array of technical institutes that represent less than 10% of the potential UK PEs we are going to achiev nothing at all.

It is up to you to define and call for a  A new model of high-value engineering education.

I was on holiday in France (A Concorde Rugby match actually-1968) when the French youth decided they had enough and wanted change.

I am in France now when a young, well educated man decided "they" had enough and wanted change. - Mr Macron. There are no political parties in France to day, tFrance has had a silent revolution. His first priority is  A new model of high-value engineering education and apprenticeships.

Keep up this line; but do as we did at ITEME , amalgamate and reduce the PEIs to one democratic voice.

The French LN has associated (no leagal ties) with the UK expats and other UK PEIs to meet and communicate.

One thing is certain, the UK system cannot continue for long, as it is change that is needed and the "old guard" has to go.

At UK Civil Service Management classes, our lecturer stated that he had given us the menu of the day. Then he said - all you have to do is communicate.

We need one Technology voice, and   A new model of high-value engineering education.

If you just talk about it on blogs the discussion will never end.

- possitive action is required, take LN France as an example. No status but open communication.

John Gowman
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0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago in reply to Chris Pearson

Scott,

Do not count on UK Government.

Secondly, schools are faced with a results problem, and the teaching staff have litle idea of what engineering or technology really means and what education and training our future technologists need. Like military staff, they apply, or are disciplined.

The UK educational system (Wales has an optional bacalaureate system) needs overhauling. I am reading those university courses I was not allowed to study when younger, I wish i had access to this knowledge earlier.

Thee UK educational system needs to be broader before specialising. Engineers have a huge culture defficit unless they read after qualifying.

How can the careers advisers help children when confronted by the mass of uncordinated advisors that knock on their doors.

How many PEIs advise, how many other professions advise ? It must be hundreds!

We need not only a  A new model of high-value engineering education, we need a new model of UK of high-value general education.

I attended a UK experimental school, it was so good that the government closed the system down - a threat to private education.

I have assisted in "European School" teaching which is about as good as any private school world wide. It costs nothing to run but upsets the status quo.

As long as we have a discordinated array of technical institutes that represent less than 10% of the potential UK PEs we are going to achiev nothing at all.

It is up to you to define and call for a  A new model of high-value engineering education.

I was on holiday in France (A Concorde Rugby match actually-1968) when the French youth decided they had enough and wanted change.

I am in France now when a young, well educated man decided "they" had enough and wanted change. - Mr Macron. There are no political parties in France to day, tFrance has had a silent revolution. His first priority is  A new model of high-value engineering education and apprenticeships.

Keep up this line; but do as we did at ITEME , amalgamate and reduce the PEIs to one democratic voice.

The French LN has associated (no leagal ties) with the UK expats and other UK PEIs to meet and communicate.

One thing is certain, the UK system cannot continue for long, as it is change that is needed and the "old guard" has to go.

At UK Civil Service Management classes, our lecturer stated that he had given us the menu of the day. Then he said - all you have to do is communicate.

We need one Technology voice, and   A new model of high-value engineering education.

If you just talk about it on blogs the discussion will never end.

- possitive action is required, take LN France as an example. No status but open communication.

John Gowman
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Vote Up 0 Vote Down

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0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago in reply to Chris Pearson

Scott,

Do not count on UK Government.

Secondly, schools are faced with a results problem, and the teaching staff have litle idea of what engineering or technology really means and what education and training our future technologists need. Like military staff, they apply, or are disciplined.

The UK educational system (Wales has an optional bacalaureate system) needs overhauling. I am reading those university courses I was not allowed to study when younger, I wish i had access to this knowledge earlier.

Thee UK educational system needs to be broader before specialising. Engineers have a huge culture defficit unless they read after qualifying.

How can the careers advisers help children when confronted by the mass of uncordinated advisors that knock on their doors.

How many PEIs advise, how many other professions advise ? It must be hundreds!

We need not only a  A new model of high-value engineering education, we need a new model of UK of high-value general education.

I attended a UK experimental school, it was so good that the government closed the system down - a threat to private education.

I have assisted in "European School" teaching which is about as good as any private school world wide. It costs nothing to run but upsets the status quo.

As long as we have a discordinated array of technical institutes that represent less than 10% of the potential UK PEs we are going to achiev nothing at all.

It is up to you to define and call for a  A new model of high-value engineering education.

I was on holiday in France (A Concorde Rugby match actually-1968) when the French youth decided they had enough and wanted change.

I am in France now when a young, well educated man decided "they" had enough and wanted change. - Mr Macron. There are no political parties in France to day, tFrance has had a silent revolution. His first priority is  A new model of high-value engineering education and apprenticeships.

Keep up this line; but do as we did at ITEME , amalgamate and reduce the PEIs to one democratic voice.

The French LN has associated (no leagal ties) with the UK expats and other UK PEIs to meet and communicate.

One thing is certain, the UK system cannot continue for long, as it is change that is needed and the "old guard" has to go.

At UK Civil Service Management classes, our lecturer stated that he had given us the menu of the day. Then he said - all you have to do is communicate.

We need one Technology voice, and   A new model of high-value engineering education.

If you just talk about it on blogs the discussion will never end.

- possitive action is required, take LN France as an example. No status but open communication.

John Gowman
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago in reply to Chris Pearson

Scott,

Do not count on UK Government.

Secondly, schools are faced with a results problem, and the teaching staff have litle idea of what engineering or technology really means and what education and training our future technologists need. Like military staff, they apply, or are disciplined.

The UK educational system (Wales has an optional bacalaureate system) needs overhauling. I am reading those university courses I was not allowed to study when younger, I wish i had access to this knowledge earlier.

Thee UK educational system needs to be broader before specialising. Engineers have a huge culture defficit unless they read after qualifying.

How can the careers advisers help children when confronted by the mass of uncordinated advisors that knock on their doors.

How many PEIs advise, how many other professions advise ? It must be hundreds!

We need not only a  A new model of high-value engineering education, we need a new model of UK of high-value general education.

I attended a UK experimental school, it was so good that the government closed the system down - a threat to private education.

I have assisted in "European School" teaching which is about as good as any private school world wide. It costs nothing to run but upsets the status quo.

As long as we have a discordinated array of technical institutes that represent less than 10% of the potential UK PEs we are going to achiev nothing at all.

It is up to you to define and call for a  A new model of high-value engineering education.

I was on holiday in France (A Concorde Rugby match actually-1968) when the French youth decided they had enough and wanted change.

I am in France now when a young, well educated man decided "they" had enough and wanted change. - Mr Macron. There are no political parties in France to day, tFrance has had a silent revolution. His first priority is  A new model of high-value engineering education and apprenticeships.

Keep up this line; but do as we did at ITEME , amalgamate and reduce the PEIs to one democratic voice.

The French LN has associated (no leagal ties) with the UK expats and other UK PEIs to meet and communicate.

One thing is certain, the UK system cannot continue for long, as it is change that is needed and the "old guard" has to go.

At UK Civil Service Management classes, our lecturer stated that he had given us the menu of the day. Then he said - all you have to do is communicate.

We need one Technology voice, and   A new model of high-value engineering education.

If you just talk about it on blogs the discussion will never end.

- possitive action is required, take LN France as an example. No status but open communication.

John Gowman
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Vote Up 0 Vote Down

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0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago in reply to Chris Pearson

Andy Millar:

Cheong Tsoi:

Dear John,

I read your posts.

Would it be more relevant if you apply for CEng thru Nuclear Institute with your past experience in Nuclear engineering instead of IEE/IET where more suitable for traditional electrical/electronic engineers?

Just my thought for sharing!

Hi,

Apologies, but I'd have to slightly disagree with this, I've found the IET CEng process to be pretty much non-discipline specific. In practice the process is looking for professionalism in engineering approach, irrespective of the specialism of the applicant. Probably a more relevant issue to consider is whether the member will find, after joining and registering, that the institution discusses issues relevant to their discipline - e.g. I have no doubt a mechanical engineer could obtain CEng through the IET but may not find it offers services as relevant as the IMechE would. (And I note your comment about "electronics and electrical engineering": when my interest was specifically electronics I, like many others, joined the IET for the CEng and the IEEE for the technical content!)

It's actually a very difficult question. Many of us work across disciplines, and the aim when the IET was set up was that it would also work across all disciplines. Nice idea, but can one institute actually manage that without spreading itself too thinly? Whilst going in the other direction, there are those who want the chartered status to explain what they are, e.g "Chartered Electrical Engineer". Not keen on that myself, seems a very narrow and (to me) rather outdated view of engineering.

So no easy answers, except that if a non-electrical engineer wanted to use the IET to obtain CEng I certainly wouldn't put them off by saying they wouldn't get it. Apologies for the triple negative in that sentence!

Cheers, Andy

Cheong Tsoi:
Dear John,

I read your posts.

Would it be more relevant if you apply for CEng thru Nuclear Institute with your past experience in Nuclear engineering instead of IEE/IET where more suitable for traditional electrical/electronic engineers?

Just my thought for sharing!Andy,

I applied to the institute of nuclear engineers. I had to write a monograph on the Tritium processing Plant i engineered for JET.MY Monograph was accepted by Manchester university as MSC.

I was refused a CEng interview my sponsor a Nuclear Eng Director wouldnot give anty references for me, It is illegal in France, he would have lost his job!.

I checked the Nuc I they had less nuclear engineers than we had in just our one dept, not counting the few thousand around France.

I agree I am a founder member of IET ; IET is not just electrical, it is open to all disciplines gender and grades.

John Gowman
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A new model of high-value engineering education

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