Following on from the UK Engineering Report 2016 (and the discussion of same in this forum) and the adequacy or not of current efforts to educate and train, and to encourage the registration of our future engineers, I am intrigued about a “new model in technology and engineering” (NMiTE http://www.nmite.org.uk ). It is a new University that is to focus on the teaching of engineering. In a recent press release, it says: “At NMiTE we believe that engineering education can be different. We’re here to unlock the creativity and drive of Britain’s next generation – the Passioneers – the designers and builders, problem solvers and innovators who will shape our future. We’re establishing a new model of high-value engineering education: Creating a beacon institution to help address the engineering skills shortage that threatens to hobble the UK’s ability to compete globally. With a new approach to learning – based on real-world problem solving and the blending of high quality engineering, design, liberal arts and humanities with communication and employability skills targeted at the growth sectors of the future. Located on a new and different type of campus – designed for inspiration, collaboration and a deep connection to the global community. And reinforced by an innovation ecosystem of global corporations & SME entrepreneurs, coupled with global universities, not just to invest, but to contribute knowledge and expertise – with New Model students at its centre. We’re shaping an institution to create and deliver 21st century engineers – catalysts for innovation and change – a new model generation of emotionally intelligent entrepreneurs, innovators, employees and leaders for the future." Two things strike me as very different about this proposition: Its motto is “no lectures, no exams, no text books” (!). It plans to be very practically-based, largely conducted within real industry. Apparently, it will also have no departments, no faculties, no tenure, no Council. Instead, it’ll have “ teaching teams designed around the delivery of our unique engineering and Human Interaction curriculum ” (developed by an impressive, international, and overwhelmingly academic array of advisors and partners). It’s located in the city of Hereford (admittedly partly a personal one as a resident of Herefordshire for over 30 years). It is a city by virtue of its cathedral but it is one of the smaller cities in the UK with a population of just over 50k, and is in England's first or second most rural county (depending on how you rank it). Hereford’s engineering heritage is largely unremarkable as it is known more for its agricultural and food output (beef, potatoes, strawberries, apples, cider(!), beer, etc.) and of being home to the UK's elite special forces regiments. It has engineering history in munitions production from during WWII and it's current engineering association is with food production, double-glazing, Morgan chassis and JCB cab manufacture, insulation material forming, and that’s largely it. So, not the most obvious choice to base a new Advanced Engineering University then! The NMiTE project has been described (The Times 6 th Sep 2016) as “ at worst an intriguing experiment and at best an innovative template that traditional universities might learn from”. What do you think? As an aside, I have seen nothing of NMiTE in these forums or indeed on the IET website – yet, apparently (and quite rightly) the IET has been an advisor/contributor/supporter. As a footnote, I would very much like to reach out and connect with any IET members/fellows that are/have been involved in NMiTE with a view of my getting involved too.

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A new model of high-value engineering education

Following on from the UK Engineering Report 2016 (and the discussion of same in this forum) and the adequacy or not of current efforts to educate and train, and to encourage the registration of our future engineers, I am intrigued about a “new model in technology and engineering” (NMiTE http://www.nmite.org.uk). It is a new University that is to focus on the teaching of engineering.

In a recent press release, it says:

“At NMiTE we believe that engineering education can be different.
We’re here to unlock the creativity and drive of Britain’s next generation – the Passioneers – the designers and builders, problem solvers and innovators who will shape our future.

We’re establishing a new model of high-value engineering education:

Creating a beacon institution to help address the engineering skills shortage that threatens to hobble the UK’s ability to compete globally.

With a new approach to learning – based on real-world problem solving and the blending of high quality engineering, design, liberal arts and humanities with communication and employability skills targeted at the growth sectors of the future.

Located on a new and different type of campus – designed for inspiration, collaboration and a deep connection to the global community.

And reinforced by an innovation ecosystem of global corporations & SME entrepreneurs, coupled with global universities, not just to invest, but to contribute knowledge and expertise – with New Model students at its centre.

We’re shaping an institution to create and deliver 21st century engineers – catalysts for innovation and change – a new model generation of emotionally intelligent entrepreneurs, innovators, employees and leaders for the future."

Two things strike me as very different about this proposition:

Its motto is “no lectures, no exams, no text books” (!). It plans to be very practically-based, largely conducted within real industry.

Apparently, it will also have no departments, no faculties, no tenure, no Council. Instead, it’ll have “teaching teams designed around the delivery of our unique engineering and Human Interaction curriculum” (developed by an impressive, international, and overwhelmingly academic array of advisors and partners).

It’s located in the city of Hereford (admittedly partly a personal one as a resident of Herefordshire for over 30 years).

It is a city by virtue of its cathedral but it is one of the smaller cities in the UK with a population of just over 50k, and is in England's first or second most rural county (depending on how you rank it). Hereford’s engineering heritage is largely unremarkable as it is known more for its agricultural and food output (beef, potatoes, strawberries, apples, cider(!), beer, etc.) and of being home to the UK's elite special forces regiments. It has engineering history in munitions production from during WWII and it's current engineering association is with food production, double-glazing, Morgan chassis and JCB cab manufacture, insulation material forming, and that’s largely it. So, not the most obvious choice to base a new Advanced Engineering University then!

The NMiTE project has been described (The Times 6^th Sep 2016) as “at worst an intriguing experiment and at best an innovative template that traditional universities might learn from”.

What do you think?

As an aside, I have seen nothing of NMiTE in these forums or indeed on the IET website – yet, apparently (and quite rightly) the IET has been an advisor/contributor/supporter.

As a footnote, I would very much like to reach out and connect with any IET members/fellows that are/have been involved in NMiTE with a view of my getting involved too.

0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago in reply to Chris Pearson

Andy Millar:

Cheong Tsoi:

Dear John,

I read your posts.

Would it be more relevant if you apply for CEng thru Nuclear Institute with your past experience in Nuclear engineering instead of IEE/IET where more suitable for traditional electrical/electronic engineers?

Just my thought for sharing!

Hi,

Apologies, but I'd have to slightly disagree with this, I've found the IET CEng process to be pretty much non-discipline specific. In practice the process is looking for professionalism in engineering approach, irrespective of the specialism of the applicant. Probably a more relevant issue to consider is whether the member will find, after joining and registering, that the institution discusses issues relevant to their discipline - e.g. I have no doubt a mechanical engineer could obtain CEng through the IET but may not find it offers services as relevant as the IMechE would. (And I note your comment about "electronics and electrical engineering": when my interest was specifically electronics I, like many others, joined the IET for the CEng and the IEEE for the technical content!)

It's actually a very difficult question. Many of us work across disciplines, and the aim when the IET was set up was that it would also work across all disciplines. Nice idea, but can one institute actually manage that without spreading itself too thinly? Whilst going in the other direction, there are those who want the chartered status to explain what they are, e.g "Chartered Electrical Engineer". Not keen on that myself, seems a very narrow and (to me) rather outdated view of engineering.

So no easy answers, except that if a non-electrical engineer wanted to use the IET to obtain CEng I certainly wouldn't put them off by saying they wouldn't get it. Apologies for the triple negative in that sentence!

Cheers, Andy

Cheong Tsoi:
Dear John,

I read your posts.

Would it be more relevant if you apply for CEng thru Nuclear Institute with your past experience in Nuclear engineering instead of IEE/IET where more suitable for traditional electrical/electronic engineers?

Just my thought for sharing!Andy,

I applied to the institute of nuclear engineers. I had to write a monograph on the Tritium processing Plant i engineered for JET.MY Monograph was accepted by Manchester university as MSC.

I was refused a CEng interview my sponsor a Nuclear Eng Director wouldnot give anty references for me, It is illegal in France, he would have lost his job!.

I checked the Nuc I they had less nuclear engineers than we had in just our one dept, not counting the few thousand around France.

I agree I am a founder member of IET ; IET is not just electrical, it is open to all disciplines gender and grades.

John Gowman
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

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0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago in reply to Chris Pearson

Andy Millar:

Cheong Tsoi:

Dear John,

I read your posts.

Would it be more relevant if you apply for CEng thru Nuclear Institute with your past experience in Nuclear engineering instead of IEE/IET where more suitable for traditional electrical/electronic engineers?

Just my thought for sharing!

Hi,

Apologies, but I'd have to slightly disagree with this, I've found the IET CEng process to be pretty much non-discipline specific. In practice the process is looking for professionalism in engineering approach, irrespective of the specialism of the applicant. Probably a more relevant issue to consider is whether the member will find, after joining and registering, that the institution discusses issues relevant to their discipline - e.g. I have no doubt a mechanical engineer could obtain CEng through the IET but may not find it offers services as relevant as the IMechE would. (And I note your comment about "electronics and electrical engineering": when my interest was specifically electronics I, like many others, joined the IET for the CEng and the IEEE for the technical content!)

It's actually a very difficult question. Many of us work across disciplines, and the aim when the IET was set up was that it would also work across all disciplines. Nice idea, but can one institute actually manage that without spreading itself too thinly? Whilst going in the other direction, there are those who want the chartered status to explain what they are, e.g "Chartered Electrical Engineer". Not keen on that myself, seems a very narrow and (to me) rather outdated view of engineering.

So no easy answers, except that if a non-electrical engineer wanted to use the IET to obtain CEng I certainly wouldn't put them off by saying they wouldn't get it. Apologies for the triple negative in that sentence!

Cheers, Andy

Cheong Tsoi:
Dear John,

I read your posts.

Would it be more relevant if you apply for CEng thru Nuclear Institute with your past experience in Nuclear engineering instead of IEE/IET where more suitable for traditional electrical/electronic engineers?

Just my thought for sharing!Andy,

I applied to the institute of nuclear engineers. I had to write a monograph on the Tritium processing Plant i engineered for JET.MY Monograph was accepted by Manchester university as MSC.

I was refused a CEng interview my sponsor a Nuclear Eng Director wouldnot give anty references for me, It is illegal in France, he would have lost his job!.

I checked the Nuc I they had less nuclear engineers than we had in just our one dept, not counting the few thousand around France.

I agree I am a founder member of IET ; IET is not just electrical, it is open to all disciplines gender and grades.

John Gowman
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago in reply to Chris Pearson

Andy Millar:

Cheong Tsoi:

Dear John,

I read your posts.

Would it be more relevant if you apply for CEng thru Nuclear Institute with your past experience in Nuclear engineering instead of IEE/IET where more suitable for traditional electrical/electronic engineers?

Just my thought for sharing!

Hi,

Apologies, but I'd have to slightly disagree with this, I've found the IET CEng process to be pretty much non-discipline specific. In practice the process is looking for professionalism in engineering approach, irrespective of the specialism of the applicant. Probably a more relevant issue to consider is whether the member will find, after joining and registering, that the institution discusses issues relevant to their discipline - e.g. I have no doubt a mechanical engineer could obtain CEng through the IET but may not find it offers services as relevant as the IMechE would. (And I note your comment about "electronics and electrical engineering": when my interest was specifically electronics I, like many others, joined the IET for the CEng and the IEEE for the technical content!)

It's actually a very difficult question. Many of us work across disciplines, and the aim when the IET was set up was that it would also work across all disciplines. Nice idea, but can one institute actually manage that without spreading itself too thinly? Whilst going in the other direction, there are those who want the chartered status to explain what they are, e.g "Chartered Electrical Engineer". Not keen on that myself, seems a very narrow and (to me) rather outdated view of engineering.

So no easy answers, except that if a non-electrical engineer wanted to use the IET to obtain CEng I certainly wouldn't put them off by saying they wouldn't get it. Apologies for the triple negative in that sentence!

Cheers, Andy

Cheong Tsoi:
Dear John,

I read your posts.

Would it be more relevant if you apply for CEng thru Nuclear Institute with your past experience in Nuclear engineering instead of IEE/IET where more suitable for traditional electrical/electronic engineers?

Just my thought for sharing!Andy,

I applied to the institute of nuclear engineers. I had to write a monograph on the Tritium processing Plant i engineered for JET.MY Monograph was accepted by Manchester university as MSC.

I was refused a CEng interview my sponsor a Nuclear Eng Director wouldnot give anty references for me, It is illegal in France, he would have lost his job!.

I checked the Nuc I they had less nuclear engineers than we had in just our one dept, not counting the few thousand around France.

I agree I am a founder member of IET ; IET is not just electrical, it is open to all disciplines gender and grades.

John Gowman
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago in reply to Chris Pearson
Andy Millar:

John,

If you want to discuss fusion power please start a new thread.

Thanks, Andy

Re: A new model of high-value engineering education
Posted by Andy Millar on Oct 30, 2017 3:54 pm
John,

If you want to discuss fusion power please start a new thread.

Thanks, Andy
Andy Millar CEng CMgr IET Mentor / IET PRA uk.linkedin.com/in/millarandy

Ref:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVElR3REzEg

Daniel Clery of Science Magazine talks about his book on fusion - 'A Piece of the Sun'

16 00 MW_{(Fusion Power)} Fusion Power – Fusion Fire

ITER will never produce Electrical Power

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-committees/science-technology/NuclearFusion/NuclearFusionevidence.pdf

House of Lords SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY SELECT COMMITTEE Nuclear Fusion Oral and written evidence. 2015

House of Lords Commission 2015

Professor Steven Cowley: No. I think we need fusion later in this century.

Prof Steve Cowley said, once we have controlled plasma physics fusion we will call in the engineers to make the steam plant.

EngTalks: Future Energy community

Re: Power or Energy, IET Xmas lecture - Fusion Confusion Power or Energy

Re: A new model of high-value engineering education
Posted by Andy Millar on Oct 30, 2017 2:32 pm
P.S. If anyone doesn't know who Steven Cowley is, I'd strongly recommend listening to the interview with him that forms the 10th October episode of BBC Radio 4's "The Life Scientific" www.bbc.co.uk/.../b097918v (apologies, probably not available for non-UK readers). He's a very interesting and inspirational speaker, and it includes a neat summary of fusion research. Sorry Roy, I didn't mean to interrupt your discussion - we happened to post at the same time - just trying to get some balance in!
Andy Millar CEng CMgr IET Mentor / IET PRA uk.linkedin.com/in/millarandy
JG He is an excellent sales man and mathematician – He was a collegue of mine, he is not an engineer.

Andy,
I agree with you.
I have started a new thread on Fusion and on Power Engineering on Future Energy community, but MIET do not seem to be interested in any subject if it is not career or IT/ Electrical.
Of the 170K MIET about less than ten are interested in future energy blogs.
This site is hardly visited: See above Fusion & IET references.
Please do not confuse S Cowley’s Plasma Physics thermo nuclear Physics research and Future Fusion Energy electrical power plants, for which no engineering design has yet been made.

There is a confusion between Energy & Power, Between MW _thand MW _El,which Cowley plays upon.
Also do not confuse the engineers working on Fusion at CCFE and EURATOM JET with Fusion Plasma Theoretical physicists. JET calls on the most competent state of the art engineers available. They have little knowledge or interest in the science of Fusion.

Roy gave a very wise statement when he mentioned bottom up in another context.

I want MIET to be able to analyse and make their own professional judgements.

Make a bottom up analysis of Fusion and Electrical generation for yourselves : electricity is produced by electrical generators, generators are powered by a mechanical rotating shaft, this shaft is the horsepower output of a steam turbine.

The Fusion vessel contains a thermal gas. This minute mass of gas and the kinetic energy of stray neutrons could be captured to produce steam, to feed a steam (or hot fluid) turbine.

There is a gap in Fusion technology between Plasma energy and valid industrial steam production. This is the FUSION PROJECT TASK. There is no solution, no fuel, no materials and soon no finance for another 120 years of research. We need electrical power now.

I was nominated engineer in charge at JET as I had saved the project from blocking points on five occasions.

My career was wrecked by a scientist who refused to follow engineering quality procedures and UK law, He was an EU- Fusion – Diplomat and protected, I was denigrated they sent a false CV of only five lines to all UK nuclear installations.

I want MIET to stop following pie in the Sky E&T non Peer Reviewed –Dan Dare articles and think like engineers. Question and ask ; how, when, how-much?

ITER, ILL, CERN are the best examples of Engineering & Technology with equal national and gender status. This is supposed to be IET’s goal. But like all big projects IET has gone through the first phase; is being modified in the second phase; and will be taken over by staff and CEng Electricals in the third stage.

IET has refused to look into JET anti IET actions I went to JET and had a serious talk with its Chief Engineer and HR; they refused to recruit IET mechanical engineers and all engineers without MSc.

They even refused to recruit CEng MIET Mechanicals.

Since my visit and complaint to ECUK they have changed their policy. They also have great difficulty recruiting PEs. See the result below Ref E&T Web Week 48 2017
Cryogenics Engineer - MASTU

Job Ref: 2312; Permanent Full Time; Culham, Oxfordshire

Knowledge skills and experience
Essential
- HNC or degree qualified with previous experience of cryogenic systems

- Strong cryogenics safety track record

- Experience of plant control systems including interlocks
Desirable

-Experience of Pressure Systems Regulations

-Experience of training others in cryogenic safety and operation of cryogenic equipment
Special requirements:

Experience of running medium to large cryoplants

JG Fusion engineer are HNC I Had H?C when I was a Lea Engineer at ET (I had an MSc) and took university Fusion subjects later.

Here is the Fake statement:
Our scientists and engineers are working with partners around the globe to develop fusion as a new source of clean energy for tomorrow`s power stations.

They are not working on Electrical Power Generation from Plasma Physics Fusion energy.

They cannot, it is not in their domain.

They need to define and construct the DEMO Fusion reactor, first; then analyse the results. If Fusion was to be possible, it could not be operating in a demonstration commercial electrical power plant before 2150.

Dan Clery and CCFE give a good rev iew of present day Fusion Ref: YouTUBE : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVElR3REzEg

They need a nuclear fission power plant to produce Tritium.

Tritium is not readily available from sea water, if it was, we would have had Tritium batteries years ago.

There are no available materials for a Fusion Reactor.

My team's latest work shows that JET will contaminate the 3000 tons of JET Torus vessel and the inner walls of the TORUS Hall when it produces neutrons.

My Team has carried out the DAD a nuclear activity analysis of JET. JET dismissed its DAD team for financial reasons - An ostrich attitude.

So JET recognizes top class Engineers as HNC or BSc, congratulations UKAEA.

Cowley was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society (FRS) in 2014. His biography reads;
Steven Cowley is a leading plasma theorist and currently chief executive officer at the UK Atomic Energy Authority. Much of his research career has been devoted to modelling and understanding plasma turbulence in nuclear fusion, a phenomenon that must be controlled to achieve stable fusion.
Nuclear fusion will offer future generations a cleaner and safer source of energy and has the potential to meet the majority of the world's energy demands. At present, however, more energy is required to feed the process than can be produced.

JET is leading the UK's participation in ITER, an experimental reactor that is set to make nuclear fusion commercially viable.
False :

ITER aims to show that Plasma physics can eventually be controlled, be positive in energy conversion and produce some steam or other hot fluid.

They have no intention of making any electrical power production, they want to see if they can make exploitable hot fluids.

To me they produce hot air at tax payers’ expenses with no obligation of results.

This is fake science to support an industry that has no mathematical model for electrical power production.

I just want MIET to be able to analyse and question. Why is IET supporting Fusion - IET President From Fusion University?

ITER is not a commercial enterprise, it is using EU tax payers’ money, on unsustainable reclamations. A sort of Scientific BREXIT.

There are other claims such as Lithium batteries from sea water – S Cowley; or Vacuum trains when we cannot even run TGV or UK mainline trains efficiently. Not to mention Mars travel where you will burn your brains out with solar radiation just to carry a few Kilos of payloads.

We have better things to engineer, or do we leave that to the developing world and sit back and culture our titles and read pie in the sky articles not even peer reviewed.

I was called upon to save JET from failure on five occasions, and nominated to Engineer in Charge to prevent rogue scientists making a Chernobyl of Fusion. But that is another story.

Please be critical about what lobbyists tell you.

With a A new model of high-value engineering education, the next generation of UK engineers will work things out for themselves. Even the most complicated system can be simplified.

John Gowman, BA, MIET

Last post :Ingénieur Chercheur, (retired)
Authorised to carry out engineering development, research, project management in nuclear installations for an atomic and alternative energy research centre.
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

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0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago in reply to Chris Pearson
Andy Millar:

John,

If you want to discuss fusion power please start a new thread.

Thanks, Andy

Re: A new model of high-value engineering education
Posted by Andy Millar on Oct 30, 2017 3:54 pm
John,

If you want to discuss fusion power please start a new thread.

Thanks, Andy
Andy Millar CEng CMgr IET Mentor / IET PRA uk.linkedin.com/in/millarandy

Ref:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVElR3REzEg

Daniel Clery of Science Magazine talks about his book on fusion - 'A Piece of the Sun'

16 00 MW_{(Fusion Power)} Fusion Power – Fusion Fire

ITER will never produce Electrical Power

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-committees/science-technology/NuclearFusion/NuclearFusionevidence.pdf

House of Lords SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY SELECT COMMITTEE Nuclear Fusion Oral and written evidence. 2015

House of Lords Commission 2015

Professor Steven Cowley: No. I think we need fusion later in this century.

Prof Steve Cowley said, once we have controlled plasma physics fusion we will call in the engineers to make the steam plant.

EngTalks: Future Energy community

Re: Power or Energy, IET Xmas lecture - Fusion Confusion Power or Energy

Re: A new model of high-value engineering education
Posted by Andy Millar on Oct 30, 2017 2:32 pm
P.S. If anyone doesn't know who Steven Cowley is, I'd strongly recommend listening to the interview with him that forms the 10th October episode of BBC Radio 4's "The Life Scientific" www.bbc.co.uk/.../b097918v (apologies, probably not available for non-UK readers). He's a very interesting and inspirational speaker, and it includes a neat summary of fusion research. Sorry Roy, I didn't mean to interrupt your discussion - we happened to post at the same time - just trying to get some balance in!
Andy Millar CEng CMgr IET Mentor / IET PRA uk.linkedin.com/in/millarandy
JG He is an excellent sales man and mathematician – He was a collegue of mine, he is not an engineer.

Andy,
I agree with you.
I have started a new thread on Fusion and on Power Engineering on Future Energy community, but MIET do not seem to be interested in any subject if it is not career or IT/ Electrical.
Of the 170K MIET about less than ten are interested in future energy blogs.
This site is hardly visited: See above Fusion & IET references.
Please do not confuse S Cowley’s Plasma Physics thermo nuclear Physics research and Future Fusion Energy electrical power plants, for which no engineering design has yet been made.

There is a confusion between Energy & Power, Between MW _thand MW _El,which Cowley plays upon.
Also do not confuse the engineers working on Fusion at CCFE and EURATOM JET with Fusion Plasma Theoretical physicists. JET calls on the most competent state of the art engineers available. They have little knowledge or interest in the science of Fusion.

Roy gave a very wise statement when he mentioned bottom up in another context.

I want MIET to be able to analyse and make their own professional judgements.

Make a bottom up analysis of Fusion and Electrical generation for yourselves : electricity is produced by electrical generators, generators are powered by a mechanical rotating shaft, this shaft is the horsepower output of a steam turbine.

The Fusion vessel contains a thermal gas. This minute mass of gas and the kinetic energy of stray neutrons could be captured to produce steam, to feed a steam (or hot fluid) turbine.

There is a gap in Fusion technology between Plasma energy and valid industrial steam production. This is the FUSION PROJECT TASK. There is no solution, no fuel, no materials and soon no finance for another 120 years of research. We need electrical power now.

I was nominated engineer in charge at JET as I had saved the project from blocking points on five occasions.

My career was wrecked by a scientist who refused to follow engineering quality procedures and UK law, He was an EU- Fusion – Diplomat and protected, I was denigrated they sent a false CV of only five lines to all UK nuclear installations.

I want MIET to stop following pie in the Sky E&T non Peer Reviewed –Dan Dare articles and think like engineers. Question and ask ; how, when, how-much?

ITER, ILL, CERN are the best examples of Engineering & Technology with equal national and gender status. This is supposed to be IET’s goal. But like all big projects IET has gone through the first phase; is being modified in the second phase; and will be taken over by staff and CEng Electricals in the third stage.

IET has refused to look into JET anti IET actions I went to JET and had a serious talk with its Chief Engineer and HR; they refused to recruit IET mechanical engineers and all engineers without MSc.

They even refused to recruit CEng MIET Mechanicals.

Since my visit and complaint to ECUK they have changed their policy. They also have great difficulty recruiting PEs. See the result below Ref E&T Web Week 48 2017
Cryogenics Engineer - MASTU

Job Ref: 2312; Permanent Full Time; Culham, Oxfordshire

Knowledge skills and experience
Essential
- HNC or degree qualified with previous experience of cryogenic systems

- Strong cryogenics safety track record

- Experience of plant control systems including interlocks
Desirable

-Experience of Pressure Systems Regulations

-Experience of training others in cryogenic safety and operation of cryogenic equipment
Special requirements:

Experience of running medium to large cryoplants

JG Fusion engineer are HNC I Had H?C when I was a Lea Engineer at ET (I had an MSc) and took university Fusion subjects later.

Here is the Fake statement:
Our scientists and engineers are working with partners around the globe to develop fusion as a new source of clean energy for tomorrow`s power stations.

They are not working on Electrical Power Generation from Plasma Physics Fusion energy.

They cannot, it is not in their domain.

They need to define and construct the DEMO Fusion reactor, first; then analyse the results. If Fusion was to be possible, it could not be operating in a demonstration commercial electrical power plant before 2150.

Dan Clery and CCFE give a good rev iew of present day Fusion Ref: YouTUBE : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVElR3REzEg

They need a nuclear fission power plant to produce Tritium.

Tritium is not readily available from sea water, if it was, we would have had Tritium batteries years ago.

There are no available materials for a Fusion Reactor.

My team's latest work shows that JET will contaminate the 3000 tons of JET Torus vessel and the inner walls of the TORUS Hall when it produces neutrons.

My Team has carried out the DAD a nuclear activity analysis of JET. JET dismissed its DAD team for financial reasons - An ostrich attitude.

So JET recognizes top class Engineers as HNC or BSc, congratulations UKAEA.

Cowley was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society (FRS) in 2014. His biography reads;
Steven Cowley is a leading plasma theorist and currently chief executive officer at the UK Atomic Energy Authority. Much of his research career has been devoted to modelling and understanding plasma turbulence in nuclear fusion, a phenomenon that must be controlled to achieve stable fusion.
Nuclear fusion will offer future generations a cleaner and safer source of energy and has the potential to meet the majority of the world's energy demands. At present, however, more energy is required to feed the process than can be produced.

JET is leading the UK's participation in ITER, an experimental reactor that is set to make nuclear fusion commercially viable.
False :

ITER aims to show that Plasma physics can eventually be controlled, be positive in energy conversion and produce some steam or other hot fluid.

They have no intention of making any electrical power production, they want to see if they can make exploitable hot fluids.

To me they produce hot air at tax payers’ expenses with no obligation of results.

This is fake science to support an industry that has no mathematical model for electrical power production.

I just want MIET to be able to analyse and question. Why is IET supporting Fusion - IET President From Fusion University?

ITER is not a commercial enterprise, it is using EU tax payers’ money, on unsustainable reclamations. A sort of Scientific BREXIT.

There are other claims such as Lithium batteries from sea water – S Cowley; or Vacuum trains when we cannot even run TGV or UK mainline trains efficiently. Not to mention Mars travel where you will burn your brains out with solar radiation just to carry a few Kilos of payloads.

We have better things to engineer, or do we leave that to the developing world and sit back and culture our titles and read pie in the sky articles not even peer reviewed.

I was called upon to save JET from failure on five occasions, and nominated to Engineer in Charge to prevent rogue scientists making a Chernobyl of Fusion. But that is another story.

Please be critical about what lobbyists tell you.

With a A new model of high-value engineering education, the next generation of UK engineers will work things out for themselves. Even the most complicated system can be simplified.

John Gowman, BA, MIET

Last post :Ingénieur Chercheur, (retired)
Authorised to carry out engineering development, research, project management in nuclear installations for an atomic and alternative energy research centre.
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago in reply to Chris Pearson
Andy Millar:

John,

If you want to discuss fusion power please start a new thread.

Thanks, Andy

Re: A new model of high-value engineering education
Posted by Andy Millar on Oct 30, 2017 3:54 pm
John,

If you want to discuss fusion power please start a new thread.

Thanks, Andy
Andy Millar CEng CMgr IET Mentor / IET PRA uk.linkedin.com/in/millarandy

Ref:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVElR3REzEg

Daniel Clery of Science Magazine talks about his book on fusion - 'A Piece of the Sun'

16 00 MW_{(Fusion Power)} Fusion Power – Fusion Fire

ITER will never produce Electrical Power

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-committees/science-technology/NuclearFusion/NuclearFusionevidence.pdf

House of Lords SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY SELECT COMMITTEE Nuclear Fusion Oral and written evidence. 2015

House of Lords Commission 2015

Professor Steven Cowley: No. I think we need fusion later in this century.

Prof Steve Cowley said, once we have controlled plasma physics fusion we will call in the engineers to make the steam plant.

EngTalks: Future Energy community

Re: Power or Energy, IET Xmas lecture - Fusion Confusion Power or Energy

Re: A new model of high-value engineering education
Posted by Andy Millar on Oct 30, 2017 2:32 pm
P.S. If anyone doesn't know who Steven Cowley is, I'd strongly recommend listening to the interview with him that forms the 10th October episode of BBC Radio 4's "The Life Scientific" www.bbc.co.uk/.../b097918v (apologies, probably not available for non-UK readers). He's a very interesting and inspirational speaker, and it includes a neat summary of fusion research. Sorry Roy, I didn't mean to interrupt your discussion - we happened to post at the same time - just trying to get some balance in!
Andy Millar CEng CMgr IET Mentor / IET PRA uk.linkedin.com/in/millarandy
JG He is an excellent sales man and mathematician – He was a collegue of mine, he is not an engineer.

Andy,
I agree with you.
I have started a new thread on Fusion and on Power Engineering on Future Energy community, but MIET do not seem to be interested in any subject if it is not career or IT/ Electrical.
Of the 170K MIET about less than ten are interested in future energy blogs.
This site is hardly visited: See above Fusion & IET references.
Please do not confuse S Cowley’s Plasma Physics thermo nuclear Physics research and Future Fusion Energy electrical power plants, for which no engineering design has yet been made.

There is a confusion between Energy & Power, Between MW _thand MW _El,which Cowley plays upon.
Also do not confuse the engineers working on Fusion at CCFE and EURATOM JET with Fusion Plasma Theoretical physicists. JET calls on the most competent state of the art engineers available. They have little knowledge or interest in the science of Fusion.

Roy gave a very wise statement when he mentioned bottom up in another context.

I want MIET to be able to analyse and make their own professional judgements.

Make a bottom up analysis of Fusion and Electrical generation for yourselves : electricity is produced by electrical generators, generators are powered by a mechanical rotating shaft, this shaft is the horsepower output of a steam turbine.

The Fusion vessel contains a thermal gas. This minute mass of gas and the kinetic energy of stray neutrons could be captured to produce steam, to feed a steam (or hot fluid) turbine.

There is a gap in Fusion technology between Plasma energy and valid industrial steam production. This is the FUSION PROJECT TASK. There is no solution, no fuel, no materials and soon no finance for another 120 years of research. We need electrical power now.

I was nominated engineer in charge at JET as I had saved the project from blocking points on five occasions.

My career was wrecked by a scientist who refused to follow engineering quality procedures and UK law, He was an EU- Fusion – Diplomat and protected, I was denigrated they sent a false CV of only five lines to all UK nuclear installations.

I want MIET to stop following pie in the Sky E&T non Peer Reviewed –Dan Dare articles and think like engineers. Question and ask ; how, when, how-much?

ITER, ILL, CERN are the best examples of Engineering & Technology with equal national and gender status. This is supposed to be IET’s goal. But like all big projects IET has gone through the first phase; is being modified in the second phase; and will be taken over by staff and CEng Electricals in the third stage.

IET has refused to look into JET anti IET actions I went to JET and had a serious talk with its Chief Engineer and HR; they refused to recruit IET mechanical engineers and all engineers without MSc.

They even refused to recruit CEng MIET Mechanicals.

Since my visit and complaint to ECUK they have changed their policy. They also have great difficulty recruiting PEs. See the result below Ref E&T Web Week 48 2017
Cryogenics Engineer - MASTU

Job Ref: 2312; Permanent Full Time; Culham, Oxfordshire

Knowledge skills and experience
Essential
- HNC or degree qualified with previous experience of cryogenic systems

- Strong cryogenics safety track record

- Experience of plant control systems including interlocks
Desirable

-Experience of Pressure Systems Regulations

-Experience of training others in cryogenic safety and operation of cryogenic equipment
Special requirements:

Experience of running medium to large cryoplants

JG Fusion engineer are HNC I Had H?C when I was a Lea Engineer at ET (I had an MSc) and took university Fusion subjects later.

Here is the Fake statement:
Our scientists and engineers are working with partners around the globe to develop fusion as a new source of clean energy for tomorrow`s power stations.

They are not working on Electrical Power Generation from Plasma Physics Fusion energy.

They cannot, it is not in their domain.

They need to define and construct the DEMO Fusion reactor, first; then analyse the results. If Fusion was to be possible, it could not be operating in a demonstration commercial electrical power plant before 2150.

Dan Clery and CCFE give a good rev iew of present day Fusion Ref: YouTUBE : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVElR3REzEg

They need a nuclear fission power plant to produce Tritium.

Tritium is not readily available from sea water, if it was, we would have had Tritium batteries years ago.

There are no available materials for a Fusion Reactor.

My team's latest work shows that JET will contaminate the 3000 tons of JET Torus vessel and the inner walls of the TORUS Hall when it produces neutrons.

My Team has carried out the DAD a nuclear activity analysis of JET. JET dismissed its DAD team for financial reasons - An ostrich attitude.

So JET recognizes top class Engineers as HNC or BSc, congratulations UKAEA.

Cowley was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society (FRS) in 2014. His biography reads;
Steven Cowley is a leading plasma theorist and currently chief executive officer at the UK Atomic Energy Authority. Much of his research career has been devoted to modelling and understanding plasma turbulence in nuclear fusion, a phenomenon that must be controlled to achieve stable fusion.
Nuclear fusion will offer future generations a cleaner and safer source of energy and has the potential to meet the majority of the world's energy demands. At present, however, more energy is required to feed the process than can be produced.

JET is leading the UK's participation in ITER, an experimental reactor that is set to make nuclear fusion commercially viable.
False :

ITER aims to show that Plasma physics can eventually be controlled, be positive in energy conversion and produce some steam or other hot fluid.

They have no intention of making any electrical power production, they want to see if they can make exploitable hot fluids.

To me they produce hot air at tax payers’ expenses with no obligation of results.

This is fake science to support an industry that has no mathematical model for electrical power production.

I just want MIET to be able to analyse and question. Why is IET supporting Fusion - IET President From Fusion University?

ITER is not a commercial enterprise, it is using EU tax payers’ money, on unsustainable reclamations. A sort of Scientific BREXIT.

There are other claims such as Lithium batteries from sea water – S Cowley; or Vacuum trains when we cannot even run TGV or UK mainline trains efficiently. Not to mention Mars travel where you will burn your brains out with solar radiation just to carry a few Kilos of payloads.

We have better things to engineer, or do we leave that to the developing world and sit back and culture our titles and read pie in the sky articles not even peer reviewed.

I was called upon to save JET from failure on five occasions, and nominated to Engineer in Charge to prevent rogue scientists making a Chernobyl of Fusion. But that is another story.

Please be critical about what lobbyists tell you.

With a A new model of high-value engineering education, the next generation of UK engineers will work things out for themselves. Even the most complicated system can be simplified.

John Gowman, BA, MIET

Last post :Ingénieur Chercheur, (retired)
Authorised to carry out engineering development, research, project management in nuclear installations for an atomic and alternative energy research centre.
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago in reply to Chris Pearson
Andy Millar:

John,

If you want to discuss fusion power please start a new thread.

Thanks, Andy

Re: A new model of high-value engineering education
Posted by Andy Millar on Oct 30, 2017 3:54 pm
John,

If you want to discuss fusion power please start a new thread.

Thanks, Andy
Andy Millar CEng CMgr IET Mentor / IET PRA uk.linkedin.com/in/millarandy

Ref:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVElR3REzEg

Daniel Clery of Science Magazine talks about his book on fusion - 'A Piece of the Sun'

16 00 MW_{(Fusion Power)} Fusion Power – Fusion Fire

ITER will never produce Electrical Power

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-committees/science-technology/NuclearFusion/NuclearFusionevidence.pdf

House of Lords SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY SELECT COMMITTEE Nuclear Fusion Oral and written evidence. 2015

House of Lords Commission 2015

Professor Steven Cowley: No. I think we need fusion later in this century.

Prof Steve Cowley said, once we have controlled plasma physics fusion we will call in the engineers to make the steam plant.

EngTalks: Future Energy community

Re: Power or Energy, IET Xmas lecture - Fusion Confusion Power or Energy

Re: A new model of high-value engineering education
Posted by Andy Millar on Oct 30, 2017 2:32 pm
P.S. If anyone doesn't know who Steven Cowley is, I'd strongly recommend listening to the interview with him that forms the 10th October episode of BBC Radio 4's "The Life Scientific" www.bbc.co.uk/.../b097918v (apologies, probably not available for non-UK readers). He's a very interesting and inspirational speaker, and it includes a neat summary of fusion research. Sorry Roy, I didn't mean to interrupt your discussion - we happened to post at the same time - just trying to get some balance in!
Andy Millar CEng CMgr IET Mentor / IET PRA uk.linkedin.com/in/millarandy
JG He is an excellent sales man and mathematician – He was a collegue of mine, he is not an engineer.

Andy,
I agree with you.
I have started a new thread on Fusion and on Power Engineering on Future Energy community, but MIET do not seem to be interested in any subject if it is not career or IT/ Electrical.
Of the 170K MIET about less than ten are interested in future energy blogs.
This site is hardly visited: See above Fusion & IET references.
Please do not confuse S Cowley’s Plasma Physics thermo nuclear Physics research and Future Fusion Energy electrical power plants, for which no engineering design has yet been made.

There is a confusion between Energy & Power, Between MW _thand MW _El,which Cowley plays upon.
Also do not confuse the engineers working on Fusion at CCFE and EURATOM JET with Fusion Plasma Theoretical physicists. JET calls on the most competent state of the art engineers available. They have little knowledge or interest in the science of Fusion.

Roy gave a very wise statement when he mentioned bottom up in another context.

I want MIET to be able to analyse and make their own professional judgements.

Make a bottom up analysis of Fusion and Electrical generation for yourselves : electricity is produced by electrical generators, generators are powered by a mechanical rotating shaft, this shaft is the horsepower output of a steam turbine.

The Fusion vessel contains a thermal gas. This minute mass of gas and the kinetic energy of stray neutrons could be captured to produce steam, to feed a steam (or hot fluid) turbine.

There is a gap in Fusion technology between Plasma energy and valid industrial steam production. This is the FUSION PROJECT TASK. There is no solution, no fuel, no materials and soon no finance for another 120 years of research. We need electrical power now.

I was nominated engineer in charge at JET as I had saved the project from blocking points on five occasions.

My career was wrecked by a scientist who refused to follow engineering quality procedures and UK law, He was an EU- Fusion – Diplomat and protected, I was denigrated they sent a false CV of only five lines to all UK nuclear installations.

I want MIET to stop following pie in the Sky E&T non Peer Reviewed –Dan Dare articles and think like engineers. Question and ask ; how, when, how-much?

ITER, ILL, CERN are the best examples of Engineering & Technology with equal national and gender status. This is supposed to be IET’s goal. But like all big projects IET has gone through the first phase; is being modified in the second phase; and will be taken over by staff and CEng Electricals in the third stage.

IET has refused to look into JET anti IET actions I went to JET and had a serious talk with its Chief Engineer and HR; they refused to recruit IET mechanical engineers and all engineers without MSc.

They even refused to recruit CEng MIET Mechanicals.

Since my visit and complaint to ECUK they have changed their policy. They also have great difficulty recruiting PEs. See the result below Ref E&T Web Week 48 2017
Cryogenics Engineer - MASTU

Job Ref: 2312; Permanent Full Time; Culham, Oxfordshire

Knowledge skills and experience
Essential
- HNC or degree qualified with previous experience of cryogenic systems

- Strong cryogenics safety track record

- Experience of plant control systems including interlocks
Desirable

-Experience of Pressure Systems Regulations

-Experience of training others in cryogenic safety and operation of cryogenic equipment
Special requirements:

Experience of running medium to large cryoplants

JG Fusion engineer are HNC I Had H?C when I was a Lea Engineer at ET (I had an MSc) and took university Fusion subjects later.

Here is the Fake statement:
Our scientists and engineers are working with partners around the globe to develop fusion as a new source of clean energy for tomorrow`s power stations.

They are not working on Electrical Power Generation from Plasma Physics Fusion energy.

They cannot, it is not in their domain.

They need to define and construct the DEMO Fusion reactor, first; then analyse the results. If Fusion was to be possible, it could not be operating in a demonstration commercial electrical power plant before 2150.

Dan Clery and CCFE give a good rev iew of present day Fusion Ref: YouTUBE : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVElR3REzEg

They need a nuclear fission power plant to produce Tritium.

Tritium is not readily available from sea water, if it was, we would have had Tritium batteries years ago.

There are no available materials for a Fusion Reactor.

My team's latest work shows that JET will contaminate the 3000 tons of JET Torus vessel and the inner walls of the TORUS Hall when it produces neutrons.

My Team has carried out the DAD a nuclear activity analysis of JET. JET dismissed its DAD team for financial reasons - An ostrich attitude.

So JET recognizes top class Engineers as HNC or BSc, congratulations UKAEA.

Cowley was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society (FRS) in 2014. His biography reads;
Steven Cowley is a leading plasma theorist and currently chief executive officer at the UK Atomic Energy Authority. Much of his research career has been devoted to modelling and understanding plasma turbulence in nuclear fusion, a phenomenon that must be controlled to achieve stable fusion.
Nuclear fusion will offer future generations a cleaner and safer source of energy and has the potential to meet the majority of the world's energy demands. At present, however, more energy is required to feed the process than can be produced.

JET is leading the UK's participation in ITER, an experimental reactor that is set to make nuclear fusion commercially viable.
False :

ITER aims to show that Plasma physics can eventually be controlled, be positive in energy conversion and produce some steam or other hot fluid.

They have no intention of making any electrical power production, they want to see if they can make exploitable hot fluids.

To me they produce hot air at tax payers’ expenses with no obligation of results.

This is fake science to support an industry that has no mathematical model for electrical power production.

I just want MIET to be able to analyse and question. Why is IET supporting Fusion - IET President From Fusion University?

ITER is not a commercial enterprise, it is using EU tax payers’ money, on unsustainable reclamations. A sort of Scientific BREXIT.

There are other claims such as Lithium batteries from sea water – S Cowley; or Vacuum trains when we cannot even run TGV or UK mainline trains efficiently. Not to mention Mars travel where you will burn your brains out with solar radiation just to carry a few Kilos of payloads.

We have better things to engineer, or do we leave that to the developing world and sit back and culture our titles and read pie in the sky articles not even peer reviewed.

I was called upon to save JET from failure on five occasions, and nominated to Engineer in Charge to prevent rogue scientists making a Chernobyl of Fusion. But that is another story.

Please be critical about what lobbyists tell you.

With a A new model of high-value engineering education, the next generation of UK engineers will work things out for themselves. Even the most complicated system can be simplified.

John Gowman, BA, MIET

Last post :Ingénieur Chercheur, (retired)
Authorised to carry out engineering development, research, project management in nuclear installations for an atomic and alternative energy research centre.
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago in reply to Chris Pearson
Grazyna Whapshott:

Hi Barry,

I fully suport you mail . I think that the discussion is going for too long with the offensive comments . I would think that it would be better for John to move his "oratorial commemts" to other

forum .

John ,

you do not need to stay in Organisation you hate so much . Find other one which would fullfil your particular requirements .

Best regards

Grazyna

Re: A new model of high-value engineering education
I suggest that you either apologise or join another organisation which is more willing to tolerate your approach.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Ref:
“Cheong Tsoi
I read your posts.
Would it be more relevant if you apply for CEng thru Nuclear Institute with your past experience in Nuclear engineering instead of IEE/IET where more suitable for traditional electrical/electronic engineers?”
Barry Brooks
BPS Brooks BSc(Eng) CEng FIET FCGI IET Past-President (IET President 2013-14)
My current (2016-17) roles for the IET: Past-President (President 2013-14); Nominations & Succession Committee; Transport Sector Executive Committee; Fellowship Policy Committee; Professional Registration Assessor & Interviewer for CEng & IEng; Fellowship Assessor & Interviewer; Mentor; and member of various ad hoc working groups (eg planning for FIRST LEGO League Open Championship in Bath Uni 2017; -
seeking to develop an IET nuclear engineering community of interest; seeking investors in the IET’s Horizon Bursary scheme). Posted Sat 15 Oct 2016 09:27 pm BST
I suggest that you either apologise and withdraw these insults, or join another organisation which is more willing to tolerate your approach.
xxxxxxxx
Posted by Grazyna Whapshott on Oct 30, 2017 10:38 am
Hi Barry,

I fully suport you mail.

John ,

you do not need to stay in Organisation you hate so much .
Find other one which would fullfil your particular requirements .
Xxxxxxxxxx

John Gowman
IET Management reply to my signaling of corruption at executive level.
I am sorry to hear that you are disappointed with the IET’s present day attitude to Professional Engineers who are apprentice trained, or have HNC’s/BSc’s.

When assessing engineers for professional registration at IEng or CEng level, the IET adhere strictly to the Engineering Councils guidance, and specifically the UK-SPEC competency framework.
This assessment method requires the Institution to assess members competence based on a combination of their educational qualifications and work based learning to determine which category of professional registration best suits their experience.

With regard to your comments on the IETs denigration of IEng members, I assure you that the IET hold all our members in the same regard, and do not discriminate between our IEng and CEng registered members.


The number of IEng registered Members has been steadily increasing over the last 5 years, and we continuing to do all we can to support and encourage its growth.

As a professional PEI, we are not in a position to comment about your thoughts on Fusion lobbying.
E&T magazine is editorially independent within the IET and E&T’s editorial policy allows a variety of views to be expressed in its pages but it is not endorsing Fusion lobbying.

The IET is a multi-disciplinary Institution, with over 165,000 members operating in all areas of Engineering and Technology.

I hope this has addressed your concerns, and thank you for your continued support of the Institution and the engineering profession.

Head of Membership The IET

John Gowman To the few MIETs that read this IET blog,

It seems that I have upset a few die hard IEE Ludites that refuse change and have no interest in
A new model of high-value engineering education, or for an open, respectfull PEI; the only UK PEI that is not mono-discipline.
We should be setting a new :
A new model of high-value engineering & technology - For all UK professional engineers

When dialog is refused, then other forms of communication are required.

IET has Failed its UK Engineering & Technology, IEng & CEng members.

We should have nothing to do with registering UK titles to overseas PEs; help them yes, control them no.

We have to leave this pyramid, military style elitist approach and get back to working as a team respectful of all its members at all levels of competences disciplines and both genders.

IIE was on the right track IET is being destroyed by this elitist pyramid and Electrical /IT CEng cartel.

IET is now hermetically sealed, the Employees report to the CEO. IET is in perpetual motion.
The MIETs have to join or remain in IET and the big three PEIs, as these three have managed to set up in the UK, an illegal, restrictive practice whereby to work as an engineer, you have to be a CEng.
You have to be a CEng because CEng now recruit; they stipulate CEng only and in the case of UKAEA, it was CEng MIMechE - no IET need apply.

IET is now in perpetual motion because it can guarantee membership; one has to be a member to hold an engineering post.

IET statistics.

150K PEs in 2006

170K PEs in 2017 – 500 staff.

Plus 20K, MIETs since 2006 including overseas members. Do you call this progress?

Facts
3Million PEs do not agree with this system, are not ECUK registered
Only 10% of all PEs in the UK are female.
ECUK ruled by 45++ PEIs runs a restrictive practice cartel that only looks after the needs of 30% of UK PEs.

Conclusion : the whole system is a failure.
Hence the Proff Uff Report, suggesting change.
In the case of IET, the dominant elitist CEng have driven out both IEng and Non Electrical MIETs.
I have missed this change as I worked worldwide with most nationalities I was based in France and too busy trying to survive in this technology revolution that has left the UK out in the cold.

In reply to the above comments, I was an early member of the Nuclear Institute.
The Nuc Inst failed, it had no nuclear engineers. There are more nuclear engineers in the Dept that I worked in, than in the whole of the Nuc Inst.
NI is not a nuclear engineering Institute, it is a nuclear Physics Technology Institute. There are only a hand full of experienced Nuc Eng available for future nuclear Power Projects, that is why the UK has to bring in Nuc Eng from abroad.

Secondly, as a founder member and ex-committee member of Institutes leading to IET.
I have every legal right to demand that :

IET respects its obligations of amalgamation; unfortunately IET has not respected the criteria of amalgamation.

I am not apologizing or joining another organization .
I have called on ECUK to make a QA Audit of IET, ECUK has no power over PEIs, it is subservient.

If however Mrs Tsoi, Brooks and Whapshott (I believe that some of these have only BSc) consider that IET is a refuge for Electrical and Information Technology, Chartered Engineers; then perhaps they should use the MIET majority vote and rename IET :
Institute of Electro-technique Technologies. – IET and carry on denigrating the hard core professional engineers – PE BSc .

Mrs Tsoi, Brooks and Whapshott are not typical MIET
Here is a more realistic comment I read on this blog

“I'd have to slightly disagree with this, I've found the IET CEng process to be pretty much non-discipline specific. In practice the process is looking for professionalism in engineering approach, irrespective of the specialism of the applicant.
Probably a more relevant issue to consider is whether the member will find, after joining and registering, that the institution discusses issues relevant to their discipline - e.g.
I have no doubt a mechanical engineer could obtain CEng through the IET but may not find it offers services as relevant as the IMechE would.
(And I note your comment about "electronics and electrical engineering": when my interest was specifically electronics I, like many others, joined the IET for the CEng and the IEEE for the technical content!)

It's actually a very difficult question. Many of us work across disciplines, and the aim when the IET was set up was that it would also work across all disciplines.
---
Whilst going in the other direction, there are those who want the chartered status to explain what they are, e.g "Chartered Electrical Engineer".

Not keen on that myself, seems a very narrow and (to me) rather outdated view of engineering.”

John Gowman - ECUK MIET IEng retired.
(ex I Nuc Eng; Ex French Vacuum Society, ex Fr Inst of Petroleum Engineers)
Last post :Ingénieur Chercheur, (retired)
Authorised to carry out engineering development, research, project management; safety and security in nuclear installations for an atomic and alternative energy research centre.

I have two approved MScs, and a BA-Science achieved independently after my HNC and ITEME Tech Eng registration. -   I have studied as a post graduate at universities, in French, in France.
I do not chase titles. I stepped down as applicant to CEO for a pre IET PEI, to give a chance to the first woman applicant. I refused a nomination as honorary member, and I refused to wear a silly hat for my BA.
I am an international, professional engineer and technologist, governed by UK law and titles.
I make things that work, and those that work, work better; I use applied science to make profit for my employers or in useful research and development.
I have been called upon to advise the national heads engineering of the - USSR, Israel, UK, France, USA. I am at present a voluntary, power plant advisor.

I do not hate IET ; I simply call for IET to respect all members and to get back on the path that was defined in its original constitution in 2005/6.

You have every right to your opinions, so do others at IET.
You have passed the line of professional respect by demanding someone to resign from IET
You are simply thuggish and non professional.

Engineering is fun
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago in reply to Chris Pearson
Grazyna Whapshott:

Hi Barry,

I fully suport you mail . I think that the discussion is going for too long with the offensive comments . I would think that it would be better for John to move his "oratorial commemts" to other

forum .

John ,

you do not need to stay in Organisation you hate so much . Find other one which would fullfil your particular requirements .

Best regards

Grazyna

Re: A new model of high-value engineering education
I suggest that you either apologise or join another organisation which is more willing to tolerate your approach.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Ref:
“Cheong Tsoi
I read your posts.
Would it be more relevant if you apply for CEng thru Nuclear Institute with your past experience in Nuclear engineering instead of IEE/IET where more suitable for traditional electrical/electronic engineers?”
Barry Brooks
BPS Brooks BSc(Eng) CEng FIET FCGI IET Past-President (IET President 2013-14)
My current (2016-17) roles for the IET: Past-President (President 2013-14); Nominations & Succession Committee; Transport Sector Executive Committee; Fellowship Policy Committee; Professional Registration Assessor & Interviewer for CEng & IEng; Fellowship Assessor & Interviewer; Mentor; and member of various ad hoc working groups (eg planning for FIRST LEGO League Open Championship in Bath Uni 2017; -
seeking to develop an IET nuclear engineering community of interest; seeking investors in the IET’s Horizon Bursary scheme). Posted Sat 15 Oct 2016 09:27 pm BST
I suggest that you either apologise and withdraw these insults, or join another organisation which is more willing to tolerate your approach.
xxxxxxxx
Posted by Grazyna Whapshott on Oct 30, 2017 10:38 am
Hi Barry,

I fully suport you mail.

John ,

you do not need to stay in Organisation you hate so much .
Find other one which would fullfil your particular requirements .
Xxxxxxxxxx

John Gowman
IET Management reply to my signaling of corruption at executive level.
I am sorry to hear that you are disappointed with the IET’s present day attitude to Professional Engineers who are apprentice trained, or have HNC’s/BSc’s.

When assessing engineers for professional registration at IEng or CEng level, the IET adhere strictly to the Engineering Councils guidance, and specifically the UK-SPEC competency framework.
This assessment method requires the Institution to assess members competence based on a combination of their educational qualifications and work based learning to determine which category of professional registration best suits their experience.

With regard to your comments on the IETs denigration of IEng members, I assure you that the IET hold all our members in the same regard, and do not discriminate between our IEng and CEng registered members.


The number of IEng registered Members has been steadily increasing over the last 5 years, and we continuing to do all we can to support and encourage its growth.

As a professional PEI, we are not in a position to comment about your thoughts on Fusion lobbying.
E&T magazine is editorially independent within the IET and E&T’s editorial policy allows a variety of views to be expressed in its pages but it is not endorsing Fusion lobbying.

The IET is a multi-disciplinary Institution, with over 165,000 members operating in all areas of Engineering and Technology.

I hope this has addressed your concerns, and thank you for your continued support of the Institution and the engineering profession.

Head of Membership The IET

John Gowman To the few MIETs that read this IET blog,

It seems that I have upset a few die hard IEE Ludites that refuse change and have no interest in
A new model of high-value engineering education, or for an open, respectfull PEI; the only UK PEI that is not mono-discipline.
We should be setting a new :
A new model of high-value engineering & technology - For all UK professional engineers

When dialog is refused, then other forms of communication are required.

IET has Failed its UK Engineering & Technology, IEng & CEng members.

We should have nothing to do with registering UK titles to overseas PEs; help them yes, control them no.

We have to leave this pyramid, military style elitist approach and get back to working as a team respectful of all its members at all levels of competences disciplines and both genders.

IIE was on the right track IET is being destroyed by this elitist pyramid and Electrical /IT CEng cartel.

IET is now hermetically sealed, the Employees report to the CEO. IET is in perpetual motion.
The MIETs have to join or remain in IET and the big three PEIs, as these three have managed to set up in the UK, an illegal, restrictive practice whereby to work as an engineer, you have to be a CEng.
You have to be a CEng because CEng now recruit; they stipulate CEng only and in the case of UKAEA, it was CEng MIMechE - no IET need apply.

IET is now in perpetual motion because it can guarantee membership; one has to be a member to hold an engineering post.

IET statistics.

150K PEs in 2006

170K PEs in 2017 – 500 staff.

Plus 20K, MIETs since 2006 including overseas members. Do you call this progress?

Facts
3Million PEs do not agree with this system, are not ECUK registered
Only 10% of all PEs in the UK are female.
ECUK ruled by 45++ PEIs runs a restrictive practice cartel that only looks after the needs of 30% of UK PEs.

Conclusion : the whole system is a failure.
Hence the Proff Uff Report, suggesting change.
In the case of IET, the dominant elitist CEng have driven out both IEng and Non Electrical MIETs.
I have missed this change as I worked worldwide with most nationalities I was based in France and too busy trying to survive in this technology revolution that has left the UK out in the cold.

In reply to the above comments, I was an early member of the Nuclear Institute.
The Nuc Inst failed, it had no nuclear engineers. There are more nuclear engineers in the Dept that I worked in, than in the whole of the Nuc Inst.
NI is not a nuclear engineering Institute, it is a nuclear Physics Technology Institute. There are only a hand full of experienced Nuc Eng available for future nuclear Power Projects, that is why the UK has to bring in Nuc Eng from abroad.

Secondly, as a founder member and ex-committee member of Institutes leading to IET.
I have every legal right to demand that :

IET respects its obligations of amalgamation; unfortunately IET has not respected the criteria of amalgamation.

I am not apologizing or joining another organization .
I have called on ECUK to make a QA Audit of IET, ECUK has no power over PEIs, it is subservient.

If however Mrs Tsoi, Brooks and Whapshott (I believe that some of these have only BSc) consider that IET is a refuge for Electrical and Information Technology, Chartered Engineers; then perhaps they should use the MIET majority vote and rename IET :
Institute of Electro-technique Technologies. – IET and carry on denigrating the hard core professional engineers – PE BSc .

Mrs Tsoi, Brooks and Whapshott are not typical MIET
Here is a more realistic comment I read on this blog

“I'd have to slightly disagree with this, I've found the IET CEng process to be pretty much non-discipline specific. In practice the process is looking for professionalism in engineering approach, irrespective of the specialism of the applicant.
Probably a more relevant issue to consider is whether the member will find, after joining and registering, that the institution discusses issues relevant to their discipline - e.g.
I have no doubt a mechanical engineer could obtain CEng through the IET but may not find it offers services as relevant as the IMechE would.
(And I note your comment about "electronics and electrical engineering": when my interest was specifically electronics I, like many others, joined the IET for the CEng and the IEEE for the technical content!)

It's actually a very difficult question. Many of us work across disciplines, and the aim when the IET was set up was that it would also work across all disciplines.
---
Whilst going in the other direction, there are those who want the chartered status to explain what they are, e.g "Chartered Electrical Engineer".

Not keen on that myself, seems a very narrow and (to me) rather outdated view of engineering.”

John Gowman - ECUK MIET IEng retired.
(ex I Nuc Eng; Ex French Vacuum Society, ex Fr Inst of Petroleum Engineers)
Last post :Ingénieur Chercheur, (retired)
Authorised to carry out engineering development, research, project management; safety and security in nuclear installations for an atomic and alternative energy research centre.

I have two approved MScs, and a BA-Science achieved independently after my HNC and ITEME Tech Eng registration. -   I have studied as a post graduate at universities, in French, in France.
I do not chase titles. I stepped down as applicant to CEO for a pre IET PEI, to give a chance to the first woman applicant. I refused a nomination as honorary member, and I refused to wear a silly hat for my BA.
I am an international, professional engineer and technologist, governed by UK law and titles.
I make things that work, and those that work, work better; I use applied science to make profit for my employers or in useful research and development.
I have been called upon to advise the national heads engineering of the - USSR, Israel, UK, France, USA. I am at present a voluntary, power plant advisor.

I do not hate IET ; I simply call for IET to respect all members and to get back on the path that was defined in its original constitution in 2005/6.

You have every right to your opinions, so do others at IET.
You have passed the line of professional respect by demanding someone to resign from IET
You are simply thuggish and non professional.

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0 Former Community Member over 7 years ago in reply to Chris Pearson
Grazyna Whapshott:

Hi Barry,

I fully suport you mail . I think that the discussion is going for too long with the offensive comments . I would think that it would be better for John to move his "oratorial commemts" to other

forum .

John ,

you do not need to stay in Organisation you hate so much . Find other one which would fullfil your particular requirements .

Best regards

Grazyna

Re: A new model of high-value engineering education
I suggest that you either apologise or join another organisation which is more willing to tolerate your approach.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Ref:
“Cheong Tsoi
I read your posts.
Would it be more relevant if you apply for CEng thru Nuclear Institute with your past experience in Nuclear engineering instead of IEE/IET where more suitable for traditional electrical/electronic engineers?”
Barry Brooks
BPS Brooks BSc(Eng) CEng FIET FCGI IET Past-President (IET President 2013-14)
My current (2016-17) roles for the IET: Past-President (President 2013-14); Nominations & Succession Committee; Transport Sector Executive Committee; Fellowship Policy Committee; Professional Registration Assessor & Interviewer for CEng & IEng; Fellowship Assessor & Interviewer; Mentor; and member of various ad hoc working groups (eg planning for FIRST LEGO League Open Championship in Bath Uni 2017; -
seeking to develop an IET nuclear engineering community of interest; seeking investors in the IET’s Horizon Bursary scheme). Posted Sat 15 Oct 2016 09:27 pm BST
I suggest that you either apologise and withdraw these insults, or join another organisation which is more willing to tolerate your approach.
xxxxxxxx
Posted by Grazyna Whapshott on Oct 30, 2017 10:38 am
Hi Barry,

I fully suport you mail.

John ,

you do not need to stay in Organisation you hate so much .
Find other one which would fullfil your particular requirements .
Xxxxxxxxxx

John Gowman
IET Management reply to my signaling of corruption at executive level.
I am sorry to hear that you are disappointed with the IET’s present day attitude to Professional Engineers who are apprentice trained, or have HNC’s/BSc’s.

When assessing engineers for professional registration at IEng or CEng level, the IET adhere strictly to the Engineering Councils guidance, and specifically the UK-SPEC competency framework.
This assessment method requires the Institution to assess members competence based on a combination of their educational qualifications and work based learning to determine which category of professional registration best suits their experience.

With regard to your comments on the IETs denigration of IEng members, I assure you that the IET hold all our members in the same regard, and do not discriminate between our IEng and CEng registered members.


The number of IEng registered Members has been steadily increasing over the last 5 years, and we continuing to do all we can to support and encourage its growth.

As a professional PEI, we are not in a position to comment about your thoughts on Fusion lobbying.
E&T magazine is editorially independent within the IET and E&T’s editorial policy allows a variety of views to be expressed in its pages but it is not endorsing Fusion lobbying.

The IET is a multi-disciplinary Institution, with over 165,000 members operating in all areas of Engineering and Technology.

I hope this has addressed your concerns, and thank you for your continued support of the Institution and the engineering profession.

Head of Membership The IET

John Gowman To the few MIETs that read this IET blog,

It seems that I have upset a few die hard IEE Ludites that refuse change and have no interest in
A new model of high-value engineering education, or for an open, respectfull PEI; the only UK PEI that is not mono-discipline.
We should be setting a new :
A new model of high-value engineering & technology - For all UK professional engineers

When dialog is refused, then other forms of communication are required.

IET has Failed its UK Engineering & Technology, IEng & CEng members.

We should have nothing to do with registering UK titles to overseas PEs; help them yes, control them no.

We have to leave this pyramid, military style elitist approach and get back to working as a team respectful of all its members at all levels of competences disciplines and both genders.

IIE was on the right track IET is being destroyed by this elitist pyramid and Electrical /IT CEng cartel.

IET is now hermetically sealed, the Employees report to the CEO. IET is in perpetual motion.
The MIETs have to join or remain in IET and the big three PEIs, as these three have managed to set up in the UK, an illegal, restrictive practice whereby to work as an engineer, you have to be a CEng.
You have to be a CEng because CEng now recruit; they stipulate CEng only and in the case of UKAEA, it was CEng MIMechE - no IET need apply.

IET is now in perpetual motion because it can guarantee membership; one has to be a member to hold an engineering post.

IET statistics.

150K PEs in 2006

170K PEs in 2017 – 500 staff.

Plus 20K, MIETs since 2006 including overseas members. Do you call this progress?

Facts
3Million PEs do not agree with this system, are not ECUK registered
Only 10% of all PEs in the UK are female.
ECUK ruled by 45++ PEIs runs a restrictive practice cartel that only looks after the needs of 30% of UK PEs.

Conclusion : the whole system is a failure.
Hence the Proff Uff Report, suggesting change.
In the case of IET, the dominant elitist CEng have driven out both IEng and Non Electrical MIETs.
I have missed this change as I worked worldwide with most nationalities I was based in France and too busy trying to survive in this technology revolution that has left the UK out in the cold.

In reply to the above comments, I was an early member of the Nuclear Institute.
The Nuc Inst failed, it had no nuclear engineers. There are more nuclear engineers in the Dept that I worked in, than in the whole of the Nuc Inst.
NI is not a nuclear engineering Institute, it is a nuclear Physics Technology Institute. There are only a hand full of experienced Nuc Eng available for future nuclear Power Projects, that is why the UK has to bring in Nuc Eng from abroad.

Secondly, as a founder member and ex-committee member of Institutes leading to IET.
I have every legal right to demand that :

IET respects its obligations of amalgamation; unfortunately IET has not respected the criteria of amalgamation.

I am not apologizing or joining another organization .
I have called on ECUK to make a QA Audit of IET, ECUK has no power over PEIs, it is subservient.

If however Mrs Tsoi, Brooks and Whapshott (I believe that some of these have only BSc) consider that IET is a refuge for Electrical and Information Technology, Chartered Engineers; then perhaps they should use the MIET majority vote and rename IET :
Institute of Electro-technique Technologies. – IET and carry on denigrating the hard core professional engineers – PE BSc .

Mrs Tsoi, Brooks and Whapshott are not typical MIET
Here is a more realistic comment I read on this blog

“I'd have to slightly disagree with this, I've found the IET CEng process to be pretty much non-discipline specific. In practice the process is looking for professionalism in engineering approach, irrespective of the specialism of the applicant.
Probably a more relevant issue to consider is whether the member will find, after joining and registering, that the institution discusses issues relevant to their discipline - e.g.
I have no doubt a mechanical engineer could obtain CEng through the IET but may not find it offers services as relevant as the IMechE would.
(And I note your comment about "electronics and electrical engineering": when my interest was specifically electronics I, like many others, joined the IET for the CEng and the IEEE for the technical content!)

It's actually a very difficult question. Many of us work across disciplines, and the aim when the IET was set up was that it would also work across all disciplines.
---
Whilst going in the other direction, there are those who want the chartered status to explain what they are, e.g "Chartered Electrical Engineer".

Not keen on that myself, seems a very narrow and (to me) rather outdated view of engineering.”

John Gowman - ECUK MIET IEng retired.
(ex I Nuc Eng; Ex French Vacuum Society, ex Fr Inst of Petroleum Engineers)
Last post :Ingénieur Chercheur, (retired)
Authorised to carry out engineering development, research, project management; safety and security in nuclear installations for an atomic and alternative energy research centre.

I have two approved MScs, and a BA-Science achieved independently after my HNC and ITEME Tech Eng registration. -   I have studied as a post graduate at universities, in French, in France.
I do not chase titles. I stepped down as applicant to CEO for a pre IET PEI, to give a chance to the first woman applicant. I refused a nomination as honorary member, and I refused to wear a silly hat for my BA.
I am an international, professional engineer and technologist, governed by UK law and titles.
I make things that work, and those that work, work better; I use applied science to make profit for my employers or in useful research and development.
I have been called upon to advise the national heads engineering of the - USSR, Israel, UK, France, USA. I am at present a voluntary, power plant advisor.

I do not hate IET ; I simply call for IET to respect all members and to get back on the path that was defined in its original constitution in 2005/6.

You have every right to your opinions, so do others at IET.
You have passed the line of professional respect by demanding someone to resign from IET
You are simply thuggish and non professional.

Engineering is fun
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel

A new model of high-value engineering education

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