I agree with Morgan Freeman - if you want to stop these issues then stop talking about it, highlighting it and changing it to a belief even though it is being tackled.

However, that does not advocate burying one's head in the sand.  Monitor the landscape and act where there ARE problems, including White Male Un-Privilege which,  due to Wokeness, is infecting much of society.

You disagree with the Foothold program of financial assistance? And the financial support for apprentices and students? 

Are they available to all regardless of ethnicity and gender?  If not then I disagree with it and all such racist and sexist ‘initiatives’.

Andy Millar: 
 

Simon Barker: 
 

Rob Eagle: 
 

I quite agree with you Matthew, the IET is more like a student union these days with their relentless ‘Woke' nonsense, I am seriously thinking of not renewing my membership and leaving after 30 years, I don't recognise it anymore as an engineering institution.

I'm sure the IET will carry on fine without you.

Rob Eagle:
 

Simon Barker:  What an unpleasant thing to say to a fellow engineer.

As I have stated before on this thread, I find that left leaning people, people who feel that they occupy the moral high ground, are the most intolerant of other people’s opinion.

Rob,

None of us might like it, but Simon's post is factually correct. Any of us can leave if we don't like what “the IET” (whatever we take that to mean) is doing, it won't make a blind bit of difference to the IET (well, to be precise it will make 1 / 168,000 x 100% difference).

Heaven knows, I spent 10 years avoiding joining the (then) IEE because I perceived it - rightly or wrongly - as a club where I would not feel comfortable being a member. It seemed to survive alright without me. And since then have often felt like leaving for similar reasons. (I suspect for reasons diametrically opposed to yours, but of course I don't know that. And it's quite possible that if "the IET" is annoying both of us then then it's probably doing the right thing!) 

Now, until recently, my problem was that I didn't have any other choice to maintain my professional registration (I, and I believe you as well as I think you work in the same field as myself and Peter, could now maintain it through another relevant institution if I wished). But I would hope the IET would completely ignore that and concentrate on the profession as a whole.

Including canvassing the widest range of views possible, which as SMW says is exactly what they are doing here. But of course it's up to individuals whether they engage with that process, however those who don't engage can't complain about not having their opinions listened to.

My bigger concern is, and has always been, the huge percentage of the engineering profession who do not consider the IET, or any other PEI, worth joining - there are far more engineers in the UK outside the PEIs than inside them. That suggests to me that we may well have a diversity issue ourselves, that it is possible that people who join PEIs (and remain in them) are the type of people who join PEIs, not necessarily representative of the engineering profession.

That said, I had better disengage from this myself as it's a busy week in the day job coming up…

Thanks,

Andy

 

A Tweet from John Cleese:

A lot of woke behaviours seem to me posturing ; striking attitudes that allow them to experience the lovely, warm glow of moral superiority, while justifying their own aggression by using denial-and-projection defences

Not working in engineering. I am a CEng and have not really worked in engineering for many years. The reasons why are

1. Got made redundant twice
2. Many applicable jobs require travel - which I can't do due to caring responsibilities 
3. Jobs also require quite a lot of out of normal work hours/ last minute responses

All of these make it hard for women (and many men) with children to work in the sector - especially after I was widowed. Now I'm older and my children are mostly grown up  I have an elderly parent to care for so still can't do much travel or out of hours work.  

I'm a pretty good engineer and would love to come back to it  - but until the sector offers family friendly work it is going to rule out many people (not just women - men want to care for their families too. )

So employers -  be a bit more realistic when you are recruiting and don't make people redundant so often  

I wasn't trying to suggest that the issue relates to engineering as a career, for me that is pretty much being addressed and I observe improvements daily (anecdotal - better informed questions being asked by potential course candidates and their parents in FE) . 

I was trying to highlight that there are numerous campaigns already in existence and growing, some better than others, and yes, the review probably needs to be revisited. However, I do think that with any campaign it has to be wholly inclusive, not just one group or another. Young people in FE and apprentices at L3 and 4 feel disenfranchised because there is a lot for those pre-engineering and those at undergraduate and graduate level (apprentices do not, whatever opinion might otherwise suggest, earn a lot of money and thus may need additional financial support). So again, we need to consider the inbetweeners? Those who do not follow the A'Level/T'Level, degree route; those outliers who may go on to be fantastic engineers, whatever diversity group they fit into.

Thanks for the suggestion, Andy.

But I recently wrote a letter to the IET, protesting against its political stance and attitude towards people like me. I had to chase multiple times to get a response. And when it came, it just brushed me off, really.

The only reason I am considering renewing my (expensive) IET membership is so I don't lose my CEng. But I might move it to another institution anyway, and leave the IET, as it seems pretty clear I'm not wanted!

So I don't see much point in offering myself for interview.

From my experience the engineering sector is not an inclusive as it could be, and I would support the IET’s active involvement in trying to insure that people do not face barriers to working in engineering. However, I would not advocate doing this through positive discrimination – such as Women Engineer of the Year awards – because that discriminates against Men and those who identify as non-binary. When taking this approach where do you draw the line – should you also have categories for LBGT / Physically Disabled / Non-Physically Disabled Engineers? Surely it’s much better to have Engineer of the Year award and judge everyone purely on their achievements?

Something that also concerns me is that the drive to promote engineering as a clean profession, those with dirty hands-on jobs are over-looked. It appears to me that the IET primarily recognise that achievements of those in managerial positions, and rarely those who prefer to remain hands-on.

In addressing inclusivity I would prefer to see the IET focussing more on increasing awareness and promoting ways to address the barriers for people entering the profession – primarily the flexibility and provision of suitable working conditions, and the candidate selection process.

When I was at college in the 1970's, there were no women on the electrical engineering course. However, since about 1990 I found that, in my particular industries, women began to be very well represented, and took on just as many senior and management roles as men. Over the years, I personally have employed both women and men and, in my experience, both make equally good (and bad) engineers.

So, really, I believe that I'm agnostic to all gender, race etc. - in fact, all the protected characteristics. I must be honest though - this means I do have difficulty with the concept of young woman engineer of the year when there isn't a young man engineer of the year. By promoting one I feel we are in danger of damaging the other. 

SMW: 
 

However, that does not advocate burying one's head in the sand.  Monitor the landscape and act where there ARE problems, including White Male Un-Privilege which,  due to Wokeness, is infecting much of society.

I haven't heard of “White Male Un-Privilege” before. It doesn't sound like a bad thing to me. Doesn't removing one group's unearned privilege put them on a level playing field with everyone else? Or are you arguing that white males should be in a position of privilege? ?

This country and our society was not given to us by god, it was built by our ancestors and continues to be built upon by our current generation, it is not a privilege, many lost their lives in war and in construction, and continue to do so, to build what we have now and they were our relatives who died.