Are we, as the IET, declaring a climate emergency?
It's really that simple a topic, should we be adding our professional voice to the growing number of countries and organisations declaring such an event, to bring better awareness of the threat of the climate crisis and to encourage more discussion in addressing it!
More people need more food, meat, houses, hot water, cars all of which need fuel.
The planet has many different types of fuels but nearly all concentrated fuels are hydrocarbons and emit CO2.
The planets answer is to defrost the tundra and icecaps so more vegetation can absorb the CO2
Gods very sensible solution and one we must live with..
This has already been debunked.
While there has been an increase in the amount of CO2 being absorbed by plantlife, it's offset by the increase in global temperatures which are decimating the very same plants.
"A new study by scientists at Stanford University, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, tested whether hotter temperatures and higher carbon dioxide levels that we’ll see post-2050 will benefit the kinds of plants that live in California grasslands. They found that carbon dioxide at higher levels than today (400 ppm) did not significantly change plant growth, while higher temperatures had a negative effect."
The Grauniad is a left wing green path follower. You'll get nothing sensible from them other than the usual scaremongering.
Did you read the actual 2016 study and see how limited it was?
Meanwhile in the real world cereal production is increasing steadily in spite of increasing temperatures and CO2 levels:
Here's straight from nasa.
" the warming properties of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide are well-established and scientifically uncontroversial.
Available CO2 is not the limiting factor for plant growth outside of a greenhouse.
Proper moisture, nutrients, temperature, sunlight and controlling pests are.
How Rising CO2 Affects Nutrition:
Though rising CO2 stimulates plant growth and carbohydrate production, it reduces the nutritional value (protein and minerals) of most food crops. This direct effect of rising CO2 on the nutritional value of crops represents a potential threat to human health.
health2016.globalchange.gov/executive-summary
Protein:
As CO2 increases, plants need less protein for photosynthesis, resulting in an overall decline in protein concentration in plant tissues. This trend for declining protein levels is evident for wheat flour derived from multiple wheat varieties when grown under laboratory conditions simulating the observed increase in global atmospheric CO2 concentration since 1900. When grown at the CO2 levels projected for 2100 (540–958 ppm), major food crops, such as barley, wheat, rice, and potato, exhibit 6% to 15% lower protein concentrations relative to ambient levels (315–400 ppm). In contrast, protein content is not anticipated to decline significantly for corn or sorghum.
While protein is an essential aspect of human dietary needs, the projected human health impacts of a diet including plants with reduced protein concentration from increasing CO2 are not well understood and may not be of considerable threat in the United States, where dietary protein deficiencies are uncommon.
Micronutrients:
The ongoing increase in atmospheric CO2 is also very likely to deplete other elements essential to human health (such as calcium, copper, iron, magnesium, and zinc) by 5% to 10% in most plants. The projected decline in mineral concentrations in crops has been attributed to at least two distinct effects of elevated CO2 on plant biology. First, rising CO2 increases carbohydrate accumulation in plant tissues, which can, in turn, dilute the content of other nutrients, including minerals. Second, high CO2 concentrations reduce plant demands for water, resulting in fewer nutrients being drawn into plant roots.
The ongoing increase in CO2 concentrations reduces the amount of essential minerals per calorie in most crops, thus reducing nutrient density. Such a reduction in crop quality may aggravate existing nutritional deficiencies, particularly for populations with pre-existing health conditions.
Carbohydrate-to-Protein Ratio:
Elevated CO2 tends to increase the concentrations of carbohydrates (starch and sugars) and reduce the concentrations of protein. The overall effect is a significant increase in the ratio of carbohydrates to protein in plants exposed to increasing CO2. There is growing evidence that a dietary increase in this ratio can adversely affect human metabolism and body composition.
health2016.globalchange.gov/food-safety-nutrition-and-distribution
health2016.globalchange.gov/food-safety-nutrition-and-distribution
Carbon speeds crop growth but often for little gain:
"In “real world” conditions, any gains from carbon fertilisation are lost − because of the stress caused to crops by the 2°C temperature rise that the gas causes in the atmosphere. Even worse, the fact that crops grow faster does not mean that their nutritional value is greater – many showed lower mineral nutrients and protein content.
Some crops do get a boost from more carbon in the atmosphere because it makes photosynthesis more efficient, but this is only if nutrients and water are available at optimum levels. This group includes soybean, cassava and rice, all vital in feeding some of the hungriest people in the world.
The anticipated 2°C rise in temperature, caused primarily by this increase in CO2, could halve yields of some of our major crops, wiping out any gain from CO2.
“Lots of people have presumed that rising CO2 is largely a good thing for crops, assuming more CO2 will make the world’s forests greener and increase crop yields,” Ainsworth said.
“The more recent studies challenge that assumption a bit. We’re finding that when you have other stresses, you don’t always get a benefit of elevated CO2. The last 15 years have taught us to account more for the complex interactions from other factors like drought, temperature, nutrients and pests.”
The poor quality of some of the grain, with less mineral and protein content, is also a blow to add to the crop growth doubts. The potential increased yield is also much smaller under conditions where there is low nitrogen fertiliser, typical of the world’s poorest countries."
Ainsworth and Long 2020 - 30 years of free‐air carbon dioxide enrichment (FACE): What have we learned about future crop productivity and its potential for adaptation?
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/.../gcb.15375
86% of land ecosystems globally are becoming progressively less efficient at absorbing the increasing levels of CO2 from the atmosphere.
Wang et al 2020 - Recent global decline of CO2 fertilization effects on vegetation photosynthesis
science.sciencemag.org/.../1295.full
Soils or plants will absorb more CO2 as carbon levels rise—but not both
"When elevated carbon dioxide levels drive increased plant growth, it takes a surprisingly steep toll on another big carbon sink: the soil.
Plants effectively mine the soil for nutrients they need to keep up with carbon-fueled growth. Extracting the extra nutrients requires revving up microbial activity, which then releases CO2 into the atmosphere that might otherwise remain locked in soil.
The research suggests grasslands may absorb unexpectedly large amounts of carbon in the coming decades. Under a scenario where atmospheric CO2 doubles pre-industrial levels the researchers estimate carbon uptake in grassland soils will increase 8 percent, while carbon uptake by forest soils will remain roughly flat. That's in spite of CO2 enrichment giving a greater boost to biomass in forests (23 percent) than in grasslands (9 percent), partly because trees allocate belowground a relatively small portion of the carbon they absorb."
phys.org/.../2021-03-soils-absorb-co2-carbon-risebut.html
Terrer et al 2021 - A trade-off between plant and soil carbon storage under elevated CO2
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03306-8
"
It's not about the guardian. It literally references a scientific study. That's your source.
Not alot of talk about the oceans which far outweighs the land when it comes to co2 absorption and immision.
We do know the planet is greening.
Aaron ,
Do you actually read the documents you link? Some appear to contradict what you are saying.
You start with some NASA quotes without references:
“Available CO2 is not the limiting factor for plant growth outside of a greenhouse”
Why does CO2 work inside a greenhouse but not outside? A level of 1000 ppm is suggested as an optimum:
http://omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/facts/00-077.htm
" the warming properties of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide are well-established and scientifically uncontroversial.” The actual effect may be non-controversial but the magnitude certainly is not settled.
From NASA Earth Observatory:
“As Arrhenius predicted, both carbon dioxide levels and temperatures increased from 1900–1999. However, carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has increased much more quickly than he expected, but the Earth hasn't warmed as much as he thought it would. (Graphs by Robert Simmon, based on data from NOAA and the Goddard Institute for Space Studies)”
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/Arrhenius/arrhenius_2.php
Looking at the Ainsworth and Long 2020 abstract (the full article is paywalled):
“Here, we summarize the results of now almost 250 observations, spanning 14 sites and five continents. Across 186 independent studies of 18 C3 crops, elevation of [CO2] by ca. 200 ppm caused a ca. 18% increase in yield under non-stress conditions. Legumes and root crops showed a greater increase and cereals less.”
This rather contradicts your previous debunking of CO2 enhancing plant growth.
Why does CO2 work inside a greenhouse but not outside?
Plants inside greenhouses are normally pampered. It's warm. They get regularly fed and watered. So the limiting factor (for some typed os plant) may be the CO2.
Outside, they live in dirt, get whatever rain falls on them, and whatever fertiliser the farmer could afford. CO2 may well not be the limiting factor there.
And if the plant is being hit by drought, heatwave, storms or floods, then a bit of extra CO2 certainly isn't going to do a lot of good.
Hey,
the original NASA post speaks for itself, the sources are in the link shared.
For the other bits, it sounds like you're still promoting the CO2 is good for plant growth angle (correct me if I'm wrong).
So let's break this down again using the post I previously shared (I've streamlined it a bit).
Here's the negative aspects to what's currently happening.
Nutritional Value Changes
"Though rising CO2 stimulates plant growth and carbohydrate production, it reduces the nutritional value (protein and minerals) of most food crops. This direct effect of rising CO2 on the nutritional value of crops represents a potential threat to human health."
health2016.globalchange.gov/executive-summary
Protein:
As CO2 increases, plants need less protein for photosynthesis, resulting in an overall decline in protein concentration in plant tissues. This trend for declining protein levels is evident for wheat flour derived from multiple wheat varieties when grown under laboratory conditions simulating the observed increase in global atmospheric CO2 concentration since 1900. When grown at the CO2 levels projected for 2100 (540–958 ppm), major food crops, such as barley, wheat, rice, and potato, exhibit 6% to 15% lower protein concentrations relative to ambient levels (315–400 ppm). In contrast, protein content is not anticipated to decline significantly for corn or sorghum.
While protein is an essential aspect of human dietary needs, the projected human health impacts of a diet including plants with reduced protein concentration from increasing CO2 are not well understood and may not be of considerable threat in the United States, where dietary protein deficiencies are uncommon.
Micronutrients:
First, rising CO2 increases carbohydrate accumulation in plant tissues, which can, in turn, dilute the content of other nutrients, including minerals. Second, high CO2 concentrations reduce plant demands for water, resulting in fewer nutrients being drawn into plant roots.
The ongoing increase in CO2 concentrations reduces the amount of essential minerals per calorie in most crops, thus reducing nutrient density. Such a reduction in crop quality may aggravate existing nutritional deficiencies, particularly for populations with pre-existing health conditions.
Carbohydrate-to-Protein Ratio:
Elevated CO2 tends to increase the concentrations of carbohydrates (starch and sugars) and reduce the concentrations of protein. There is growing evidence that a dietary increase in this ratio can adversely affect human metabolism and body composition.
health2016.globalchange.gov/food-safety-nutrition-and-distribution
health2016.globalchange.gov/food-safety-nutrition-and-distribution
Carbon speeds crop growth but often for little gain:
"In “real world” conditions, any gains from carbon fertilisation are lost − because of the stress caused to crops by the 2°C temperature rise that the gas causes in the atmosphere.
Even worse, the fact that crops grow faster does not mean that their nutritional value is greater – many showed lower mineral nutrients and protein content.
“Lots of people have presumed that rising CO2 is largely a good thing for crops, assuming more CO2 will make the world’s forests greener and increase crop yields,” Ainsworth said.
“The more recent studies challenge that assumption a bit. We’re finding that when you have other stresses, you don’t always get a benefit of elevated CO2. The last 15 years have taught us to account more for the complex interactions from other factors like drought, temperature, nutrients and pests.”
Land becomes less efficient at absorbing CO2
86% of land ecosystems globally are becoming progressively less efficient at absorbing the increasing levels of CO2 from the atmosphere.
Wang et al 2020 - Recent global decline of CO2 fertilization effects on vegetation photosynthesis
science.sciencemag.org/.../1295.full
Soil Vs Plants
Soils or plants will absorb more CO2 as carbon levels rise—but not both
"When elevated carbon dioxide levels drive increased plant growth, it takes a surprisingly steep toll on another big carbon sink: the soil.
The research suggests grasslands may absorb unexpectedly large amounts of carbon in the coming decades. Under a scenario where atmospheric CO2 doubles pre-industrial levels the researchers estimate carbon uptake in grassland soils will increase 8 percent, while carbon uptake by forest soils will remain roughly flat. That's in spite of CO2 enrichment giving a greater boost to biomass in forests (23 percent) than in grasslands (9 percent), partly because trees allocate belowground a relatively small portion of the carbon they absorb."
phys.org/.../2021-03-soils-absorb-co2-carbon-risebut.html
Terrer et al 2021 - A trade-off between plant and soil carbon storage under elevated CO2
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03306-8
"
The realisation is climate change is occurring, and it can't be ignored.
More over the longer we discuss this and don't move towards acting together as a collective body, the more the scales tip ever further from our favour.
We should be coming together to discuss this and push forward with solutions.
Look at the news, ordinary people are rising up and taking direct action to raise awareness, but there are also more and more professional groups joining the mix.
I'm not saying we need to engage in activism, but as some of the brightest and innovative minds this country has, everyone will look to us to define the path forward and solutioneer a way out of this.
Indeed, the CO2 isn't the be all and end all factor, it's a combination of factors, some of which are triggered BY the increase in CO2 and other particulates as we can see in this thread.
Indeed, the CO2 isn't the be all and end all factor, it's a combination of factors, some of which are triggered BY the increase in CO2 and other particulates as we can see in this thread.
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