Replacing electric locomotives with diesels due to cost

There seems to be a lack of joined up thinking/government Frowning2

  • Interesting, and the sort of thing that happens during volatile prices. I feel they  would be unwise to scrap the electric trains altogether as my money is on this reversal being economic only in the short term. The original red diesel phase out was supposed include railways and taxing rail fuel certainly would prevent this, but for now Railways are on the exempted list and still use it in the UK. I do not expect that to last (certainly not if there are a few more headlines like this...).

    Meanwhile if you want railway companies to compete in a truly capitalist way, then govt and others should not be too surprised if they do.

    Mike.

  • Yes, if HS2 were to follow their example then the infra structure costs would be reduced considerably as no electro-cation  would be required only control cables laid beside the tracks.

    Come to think of it; if the grid has to supply the power at peak times it will need to be burning gas or whatever anyway, so all in all diesel transport is more secure, more reliable as it can run ever if a power cut has occurred and cheaper for operators.  A win win situation.

  • Well apart from the horrible inefficiency of diesel trains at anything other than full speed -  It only works because oil comes out the ground pretty much for free and the infrastructure to move it round and refine it is already there - so much so that it is worth wasting a litre a minute on a long passenger train at idle waiting at the station and sat at signals just to maintain the 'hotel' function of lights and ventilation. It is not even worth retrofitting start-stop as you would in a car and having a smaller pony motor just to keep the lights on - at road fuel rates it would be.

    Then there is pollution of breathing air in built up areas to consider.

    And last but not least (but probably least effectively) it conflicts with govt policy advice

    And somehow it costs upwards of a million pounds a mile to electrify an existing  track....

    Mike.

  • Yes, pollution is a problem.  Perhaps the trains should be hybrids electric in cities and diesel out of town.

  • I'm going to reserve judgement on this story until we know more about it - the statements about energy costs are all made by the authors of the article, DB Schenker themselves only refer to "running costs" which could be a wide variety of issues. I don't know much about the Class 90s, but they must be starting to get expensive to run now due to their age. It is very likely that the issue is that the class 66s are more versatile (because they can run anywhere in the UK), whereas the Class 90s can only, of course, run on electrified lines. So why maintain two fleets of aging locos when one can be used anywhere and the other can't.

    Even if energy costs are the issue it may be that this was just the last straw in a decision that was on the cards anyway - remembering that these days locos aren't usually scrapped until they are at (or well past!) end of life.

    From an environmental point of view this is very sad, from a business point of view I'm not surprised. 

    But I assume DB Schenker must be looking at the bi-mode Class 99s that are due to enter service in 2025 to replace the Class 66s. These will allow use on electric traction where available and diesel where it isn't.

  • In my opinion, it is a foolish and harmful choice to switch from electric to diesel trains in the UK because of the cost factor. This choice will have adverse consequences for both the natural environment and the economic development of the country.

  • Yes, this is a bit of an alarmist article. I wonder why? The reality is that even using diesel, rail freight pollutes much less than road freight...

  • There’s still too many issues to go all electric 

     glamorganstar.co.uk/.../

  • Today's update: 

    "In a statement, DB Cargo said ‘whilst this is not a decision we have taken lightly, it is one that we are using as a platform for greater engagement on affordability and availability of biofuels, which can be used in our existing, fully operational diesel fleet of locomotives to lower carbon emissions and operate more sustainably’."

    www.railwaygazette.com/.../64615.article

  • But DB Cargo also knows that biofuels are not perfect. They are not always easy to get or cheap to buy. So DB Cargo asked the government and other companies to help them get more biofuels and make them cheaper. DB Cargo said that this was not an easy decision, but it was a good way to start being more green and sustainable.

    I think that DB Cargo is doing a good thing by trying to use less diesel and more biofuels, but I also think that this is not enough. I think that DB Cargo should look for other ways to make its trains run without diesel or biofuels, such as using electricity, hydrogen or batteries. I also think that DB Cargo should tell everyone how much CO2 it makes and how much it reduces, and be honest about its environmental goals and actions.