Replacing electric locomotives with diesels due to cost

There seems to be a lack of joined up thinking/government Frowning2

Parents
  • Interesting, and the sort of thing that happens during volatile prices. I feel they  would be unwise to scrap the electric trains altogether as my money is on this reversal being economic only in the short term. The original red diesel phase out was supposed include railways and taxing rail fuel certainly would prevent this, but for now Railways are on the exempted list and still use it in the UK. I do not expect that to last (certainly not if there are a few more headlines like this...).

    Meanwhile if you want railway companies to compete in a truly capitalist way, then govt and others should not be too surprised if they do.

    Mike.

  • Yes, if HS2 were to follow their example then the infra structure costs would be reduced considerably as no electro-cation  would be required only control cables laid beside the tracks.

    Come to think of it; if the grid has to supply the power at peak times it will need to be burning gas or whatever anyway, so all in all diesel transport is more secure, more reliable as it can run ever if a power cut has occurred and cheaper for operators.  A win win situation.

  • Well apart from the horrible inefficiency of diesel trains at anything other than full speed -  It only works because oil comes out the ground pretty much for free and the infrastructure to move it round and refine it is already there - so much so that it is worth wasting a litre a minute on a long passenger train at idle waiting at the station and sat at signals just to maintain the 'hotel' function of lights and ventilation. It is not even worth retrofitting start-stop as you would in a car and having a smaller pony motor just to keep the lights on - at road fuel rates it would be.

    Then there is pollution of breathing air in built up areas to consider.

    And last but not least (but probably least effectively) it conflicts with govt policy advice

    And somehow it costs upwards of a million pounds a mile to electrify an existing  track....

    Mike.

  • Yes, pollution is a problem.  Perhaps the trains should be hybrids electric in cities and diesel out of town.

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  • Yes, pollution is a problem.  Perhaps the trains should be hybrids electric in cities and diesel out of town.

Children
  • I'm going to reserve judgement on this story until we know more about it - the statements about energy costs are all made by the authors of the article, DB Schenker themselves only refer to "running costs" which could be a wide variety of issues. I don't know much about the Class 90s, but they must be starting to get expensive to run now due to their age. It is very likely that the issue is that the class 66s are more versatile (because they can run anywhere in the UK), whereas the Class 90s can only, of course, run on electrified lines. So why maintain two fleets of aging locos when one can be used anywhere and the other can't.

    Even if energy costs are the issue it may be that this was just the last straw in a decision that was on the cards anyway - remembering that these days locos aren't usually scrapped until they are at (or well past!) end of life.

    From an environmental point of view this is very sad, from a business point of view I'm not surprised. 

    But I assume DB Schenker must be looking at the bi-mode Class 99s that are due to enter service in 2025 to replace the Class 66s. These will allow use on electric traction where available and diesel where it isn't.

  • Yes, this is a bit of an alarmist article. I wonder why? The reality is that even using diesel, rail freight pollutes much less than road freight...

  • Former Community Member
    Former Community Member in reply to CliveS

    In Wales this is already happening: news.tfw.wales/.../uks-first-hybrid-train-enters-service-on-borderlands-line

  • Sorry bit late, but that isnt a heavy haul freight train is it.

  • No, the TfW train isn't, my guess is that we'll see hydrogen trains before we see hybrids on heavy freight. But first we'll see bi-modes https://www.railtech.com/rolling-stock/2022/04/29/stadlers-class-99-set-for-uk-debut-following-deal-with-leasing-company/