Reasons why I suffered tinnitus, insomnia, chronic fatigue, and other health problems after having digital electricity meters installed

In my last reply to my previous EngX discussion Severe Tinnitus Following the Installation of New Electricity Meters, which is still attracting a lot of viewings over a year on, I stated that my hunt would continue for medical and electrical answers as to why I had suffered bad health reactions including; tinnitus, insomnia, chronic fatigue, migraine, tingles and twitches, sore eyes, sinus problems, blood pressure problems and several other symptoms, during a 197 day ordeal while my home was fitted with a series of 5 digital electricity meters. To some extent, it still remains work in progress, there's a few pieces of the jigsaw to find, but having already found some very concerning science about non‑ionising radiation, how protection from it is regulated and plenty of evidence of others suffering similarly, it is time for an update:

The suspicion that switched-mode power supplies (SMPS) without noise suppression as used by digital electricity meters affected my health has to be valid as all my symptoms considerably improved within 7 days of the traditional electro-mechanical meter being fitted, almost all to the point where they were no longer noticeable. The peaks of electrical noise I found using the FFT function on my oscilloscope prior to fitting this meter on the mains wiring within my home were no longer present. I felt I had been given my life back and I remain grateful to my energy supplier for eventually fulfilling my ever increasingly desperate requests to have such a meter reinstalled.

Unfortunately the 197 day ordeal endured has left its mark and, as many other sufferers have reported, the longer you are exposed to what is causing the health reactions, the more difficult it is to return back to normal. Tinnitus lingers on - unless I am away from my home and other places that seem to still stimulate it. (ie It remains an environmental problem.) What I haven’t had to do since 25 August last year is to abandon my house for respite or sleep out in the garden, as I did so many times during my ordeal.

I have found science indicating that I was not far out with the notion of ultrasonics playing a role in the tinnitus, but rather than acoustics, it is electromagnetic fields oscillating in the ultrasonic range as a consequence of “dirty electricity” - extraneous frequencies on the AC mains in the tens and hundreds of kilohertz. Within human and many other animal ears (this isn’t just a human problem), the tectorial membrane coating hairs in the cochlea and the otoconia in the saccule are piezoelectric. As a result they will convert electric currents arising from ultrasonic frequencies of electric and electromagnetic fields into sound. The auditory nerve itself can be electrically stimulated. The result is that the human ear may be 5,000 to 10,000 times more sensitive to electric and electromagnetic fields oscillating at ultrasonic frequencies than at power line frequencies. The resulting sound is apparently filtered out my most people by their brains, but some people end up hearing a high pitched tinnitus tone close to the top of their hearing range. Resonance is an important factor on sustaining the effect and for starting it in the first place where field strengths are low. This all seems to fit so very closely with my own suffering of a high pitched tone close to the top of my hearing range.

There are also many other mechanisms for interference within the human body by electromagnetic fields. For example; generation of reactive oxygen species (ROS), increased free radical production and activation of voltage-gated calcium channels. These lead to oxidative stress and then all sorts of symptoms can arise including those I experienced last year, as shown in the diagram below:

As I reported in my original discussion, I am far from alone, finding others reporting similar symptoms to myself is quite easy to achieve. Surveys were carried out years ago when people started complaining of health impacts after meters started to be fitted in homes. Here’s a chart from a study of people who complained of health ailments in Australia and the USA after having smart meters fitted in their homes (Source: Steve Weller, 2015. The Biological Effects of Electromagnetic Radiation. 10.13140/RG.2.2.28585.47205.):

The first six of these symptoms figured highly in the period that I had digital meters installed in my home, plus one of the other symptoms. These symptoms, and those in the previous diagram, come up time and time again in reports from others on the ailments people experience in their homes after having had smart meters fitted. If you don’t believe me, then try searching online yourself, it shouldn’t take you very long to find them.

There is plenty of science to substantiate that harm is being done by exposure to man-made electromagnetic radiation. Over 100,000 peer reviewed scientific papers have been published. You can find more than 40,000 such publications and over 7,000 summaries of individual scientific studies at the “The EMF Portal”.

Unfortunately despite all the science and reports of people suffering the same set of symptoms, regulators do not want to admit there are any harmful effects from relatively low levels of man‑made electromagnetic radiation. Politicians do not understand what is happening to people and the environment as a consequence of something that is an invisible problem to all except the scientists working on the matter and those knowingly affected. The politicians refer to the regulators for advice and as they are not going to admit there is a problem with their own guidance, their reply always is; “there is no problem, everything is safe as the exposure is below the ICNIRP limits”. Any individuals complaining that there is a problem are then told they are the first to ever complain, nothing is wrong, despite many complaints previously going back well over a decade.

There are many scientists and campaigners calling for changes to how exposure limits are regulated and a search on the Internet will reveal immense dissatisfaction with the guidelines from the ICNIRP, the WHO’s “The International EMF Project” and other related radiation protection bodies through their stubbornness in not accepting any of the science that reveals harmful effects other than heating, despite another part of WHO declaring Electromagnetic Fields a “Class 2B possible carcinogen”. (See: https://www.iarc.who.int/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/pr208_E.pdf)  In 2021 a group of scientists, doctors and related professionals whose work and warnings on the effects of non-ionising radiation were constantly being ignored, set up the “International Commission on the Biological Effects of Electromagnetic Fields” with the aim of providing independent recommendations on exposure limits that do protect the public and the environment. (See: https://icbe-emf.org/)

There are problems not just with the magnitude of the limits currently imposed but also how radiation intensity is measured. For example, strong pulses of radiation are averaged out over a comparatively large timescale that reduces the intensity to a negligible amount when compared to the limit, but the pulse itself could have been above the limit for an instant and/or strong enough to create a shock-wave within the bioelectrical systems of the human body. Frequency as well as the intensity of the radiation is also a significant factor, certain frequencies at a low intensity can cause more effects than other frequencies at much higher intensities.

The ICNIRP, despite refusing to accept any science revealing harmful effects other than heating injury, states in its guidance for low frequencies (LF), the range that I believe had a significant detrimental affect on my health:

“When people are exposed to LF fields, electric fields and currents are generated inside the body and they can interfere with the body’s own electric fields and current flows related to normal biological functioning.”
(From: https://www.icnirp.org/en/frequencies/low-frequency/index.html)

What follows this statement are remarks about the effects being mainly unnoticed, temporary and inconsequential. This is not something I will ever concur with as my health so badly compromised last year. There is also a statement that high exposures can cause permanent irreversible cardio-vascular effects. Common effects reported for low exposure to frequencies caused by dirty electricity include; cardio vascular problems. Scarily, investigations into links with Alzheimer’s and ALS/MND are mentioned as being “inconclusive”, as are insomnia and cognitive functioning. I can vouch for the latter pair of ailments, I hope I never have to vouch for the former pair. There is also scientific evidence on childhood leukaemia resulting from exposure to high tension power lines, yet the ICNIRP state there is no proof of any such causation.

Despite requests, Russia refuses to follow the ICNIRP guidelines due to research it carried out during the Soviet era and remains alarmed that the West hasn’t heeded the science it shared some years ago. It sets its limits for levels of exposure at just 1% of the ICNIRP levels, as does China and many former Soviet and Eastern Bloc States. Here’s a comparison albeit these are limits applying for microwave frequency exposure (Source Jamieson, I. 2014: RF / Microwave Radiation Risk Awareness, Figure 1):

As you can see, some countries and regions in Western Europe take the matter even more seriously than Russia and China.

While not adopting stricter exposure limits yet, Sweden acknowledges the existence of electro‑hypersensitivity as a “functional impairment disability” with around 3.2% of the population already identified as sufferers. (Sweden is not alone in the recognition of EHS.) This would equate to over 2 million people in the UK. Some estimates of electro-hypersensitivity put the percentage at 12%, the median value seems to be between 5% and 6%, roughly equating to 3.5 million people in the UK. Note the charity ES-UK states that around 50% of the population will notice some sort of effect(s) and the rest don’t escape, they just won’t notice how they are being affected.

Thanks to the lead times in symptoms appearing and the medical profession having had no training to spot causation of symptoms via electro-hypersensitivity, cases are not being recorded and we simply do not know just how big the problem currently is in the UK. People who suspect they have symptoms due to an electrical device being installed in or near their home will be told it is simply nonsense. However, there are statistics for the related symptoms of tinnitus, insomnia, chronic fatigue, migraines and ADHD and many others indicating that these are all on the rise within the population, some rising as a percentage very quickly indeed. However, it seems no one in the NHS wants to take notice into the research pointing out these as symptoms of electromagnetic radiation exposure. My GPs are interested but say they don’t have time to look into the matter. Meanwhile, the pressure on their already stretched services for treatment regarding these ailments continues to increase.

One of the remaining questions I haven’t found any answers for yet is: “Why am I so different to have become hypersensitive before most others?” I don’t particularly feel special in any way, I might have more amalgam fillings than I would like (some people cite these as aiding and abetting such sensitivity but my dentist doesn’t see it as a worthwhile reason to go to the trouble of replacing them) and I’ve also had quite a few MRI scans in my time. However, I simply haven’t been able to establish any commonalities with other sufferers. Hence I can't state who will be vulnerable to this problem. I had no idea I would ever suffer like I did last year, I put my trust in the people who authoritatively stated there was nothing to be concerned about. They may easily be the next to suffer.

We all are electrical beings, animals and plants too. All are dead without internal electrical activity and all respond to electromagnetic fields, some at very low levels of intensity, birds for navigation as an example. (There are many scientific papers concerning effects on birds, bees and trees.) It appears that we all have our own individual threshold of tolerating interference from non‑ionising radiation. The diagram below was originally produced in Germany by Professor Karl Hecht in 2016, which depicts the different stages of coping:

The timescales involved are rather long, the human body can put up with so much, but at some point, failure to cope will occur. The timeline in the diagram is actually just an example to show how long the process can take and that’s one of the reasons EHS is so complicated to define as a causation of ill health. The other is that oxidative stress is caused by other things in our modern day lives. Ultra Processed Foods (UPFs) for example, which are facing similar complaints of ill health from scientists, while the government advice comes from people associated with the very industry producing UPFs and promoting them as being good for us. Check out the health data panel on the side of a can of diet cola for example. You might decide it's so healthy you want to drink nothing else. (Please don’t reply about that.)

Just over a year ago, I made contact the lead author of "Dirty power from new electricity meters: Key to a health problem?” (Please note links within this document have been fixed since the document was uploaded in my previous discussion). This document contains information on SMPS in electricity meters leading to tinnitus, insomnia, concentration problems, fatigue and joint pain. He pointed me to two books he and his co-authors had written on the entire subject of how ill health can result from smart and dumb electricity meters, but written in Norwegian. These books have since been fully translated into English, they include the above diagrams and much more of the science surrounding them. They are free to download from the author’s website:

https://einarflydal.com/sdm_downloads/download-smartmeters-dirty-electricity-pulses-and-health-pdf/

https://einarflydal.com/sdm_downloads/download-smart-meters-the-law-and-health-pdf/

Both books were originally written before my ordeal with digital meters began. “Smart meters, dirty electricity, pulses and health” is the most recent of the books and has had some updates during its translation. It provides quite a comprehensive view of the whole subject of health related problems arising from non-ionising radiation emitted by electricity meters plus other devices/equipment.

“Smart meters, the law and health” is more or less a direct translation of the Norwegian version with a few notes containing updated information. Part 1 of this book concerns the law in Norway, where smart meters were made mandatory, and the law concerning the European Convention on Human Rights. The Annexe, Part 2, is the forerunner of the other more recent book, but it contains some interesting additional details including how the ICNIRP and “The International EMF Project” were founded and how they operate to maintain the “thermal paradigm” that only heating effects need to be prevented. This book was originally published in 2018 and in the conclusion to Part 2, the author made this rather interesting prediction:

“From around 2022, there will be a tipping point in health statistics. From around 2025 it should be possible to observe that from 2022 there has been a growth in general morbidity, and the increase in morbidity will be steeper in the following 10-15 years. Some – the “electrically insensitive” – who in number are perhaps as numerous as the electrically hypersensitive – will go completely free.

The most common symptoms will be neuro-vegetative disturbances such as neuroses, depression, fatigue during the daytime, performance impairment, sleep problems, headaches, various changes in heart/vascular functions, hyperactivity, cardiac arrhythmia, tinnitus and inner restlessness.”

How true this prediction came for me in 2022. As for the prediction for the period 2025 to 2040 about increasing morbidity, a few months ago “The Health Foundation” made exactly the same prediction about increasing morbidity: 2.5 million more people in england projected to be living with major illness by 2040. The illnesses it cites as causing the rise in morbidity are; anxiety and depression, chronic pain and diabetes. Sifting through the research papers, these conditions come up time and again as long term problems with links to overexposure to non-ionising radiation, plus lots more of concern too. (For a lengthy list of possible effects and ailments, please see section 14 within “Selected Studies on Electrosensitivity (ES) and Electromagnetic Hyper-sensitivity (EHS)”.)

It is of no surprise that the Norwegian books take aim at the ICNIRP and the related WHO’s “The International EMF Project”. The books describe how the science presented to these organisations is sifted and rebuffed, but rather than disagreeing outright when harm is difficult to deny, they send it back to the authors with a note stating; “further research required”. How they deliberately ignore the precautionary and “ALARA” (As Low As Reasonably Achievable) principles in the face of science showing there are problems is also explained, and that recklessness should be worrying to all of us, not just to the people who have become affected already.

If you still don’t want to believe these books and all the science they reference, nor what happened to myself, just try searching the Internet for “dirty electricity” and “smart meters tinnitus” and you will receive plenty of results. There’ll be a few weird and wonderful websites returned among the results, but I scanned through the top 1,000 results for “dirty electricity” very recently and found only a few results that were off topic. Most of the results appeared to be reporting very similar things about the technologies that cause it and the symptoms being suffered.

What is also highly noticeable in all the searching online I’ve been doing, is the absence of any viable alternative to explain how I became so ill last year nor any science attempting to prove the human body is 100% compatible with man-made electromagnetic radiation (up to the point at which heating injuries occur). There are scientific reports that low levels of interference can actually make improvements to health in certain circumstances. Recently BBC Click on 7 October featured the Nissan Formula E racing team drivers being subjected to low levels of electromagnetic radiation in order to stimulate their brains in seemingly successful attempts to improve their reaction speeds and alleviate insomnia due to jet lag. There’s plenty of other science too on positive effects, but you can’t accept there are no effects if you want to accept that there are good effects.

While dirty electricity can be produced by many appliances, and very worryingly many are devices that are being promoted as saving the environment, what can be done with reference to electricity meters? Most importantly, they need to include electrical noise suppression to stop their power supplies creating and spreading dirty electricity around the home and the local neighbourhood. Next, why can’t they use the home’s broadband router (with VOIP telephony being rapidly rolled-out, almost every home in the UK will have one soon) to return data to the energy companies rather than putting in another wi-fi router and what is essentially a mobile phone that makes a call at least once every 30 mins 24/7? As for the in‑home display unit, why not an app for the computer or phone? I’m finding a lot of people throw these displays in a drawer thinking that this the smart meter and then claim they don’t have one! For those who have wi-fi intolerance (a co-author of the Norwegian books is one such person), then how about an Ethernet socket so that a cable can be run between the meters and to the home’s broadband router? There’s certainly no need for mobile phone communication, which is such a bugbear for many smart meters already installed and now to the mobile phone industry who are having to keep the second generation of mobile phone systems running longer than ought to have been necessary.

As for ES/EHS sufferers; what I’ve found is that they are living in an absolute nightmare situation. People are suffering, very very badly in some cases, from something that others do not want to believe exists. Appropriate help is near impossible to obtain from the authorities and the medical profession, allowing their suffering to continue and worsen with time. (I even had treatments for an unrelated problem withdrawn due to my physical condition deteriorating so much.) Then they have to suffer the taunts of delusion, of psychological causation, despite all the peer reviewed science readily available and the commonality of symptoms reported by sufferers around the world over many years, many of whom were blind to the problem before they started suffering symptoms, myself included. Even so, the result is not the compassionate care that befits anyone suffering mental illness, it is more akin to the treatment lepers received in bygone centuries; sufferers are shunned and made outcasts from ordinary society. Those like myself who find themselves sensitive to digital electricity meters, are told to live with the meter causing them harm or have the electricity turned off. Anyone wondering what the latter is like, just turn your electricity off and see how long you last before craving to turn it back on. Some ES/EHS sufferers retreat to living off-grid in the wilderness to try to escape the technologies hurting them and the people deriding them. The way sufferers are treated can result in extreme mental anguish, serious anxiety and depression can set in. Suicides are not unknown.

This is not the treatment any minority deserves in the 21st Century, certainly not one that is trying its best to stop others from following in their wake by raising the alarm about what is happening to them and the environment as a whole. Without recognition, independent regulation and engineering solutions, this problem is soon going to become a lot lot worse as we rush into electrifying almost everything in our lives. I’ve had a preview of the future and if nothing changes, it’s going to be far from an environmentally friendly and healthy place. For many it will be a very dark place indeed.

Parents
  • Got Rid of My Smart Meter and Got My Life Back

    Approximately 8-10 years ago, my utility company began replacing our analog meters with Smart Meters.  I chose to take advantage of the opt-out option, paying the up front opt-out fee along with the recurring monthly meter reading fee.  Several months ago, the utility replaced my electric meter.  Although the new meter had a blinking digital readout, the technician assured me that it was not a Smart Meter.  Within one day after installation of the new meter, I began experiencing debilitating falling down dizzy spells every time I walked past the meter, as well as feeling those same effects inside my home.  EMF exposure symptoms do not subside immediately, even after moving away from the source.  In my case, they can linger for as long as 2-3 hours, forcing me to remain bedridden during that time.

    After several months of dizzy spells, brain fog, and inability to perform my activities of daily living, I notified the utility company about the problems I was having and requested that the meter be replaced.  After a bit of discussion, the utility company agreed to remove the meter and replace it with the analog dial unit.  I experienced  immediate relief of all symptoms after the meter was replaced.

    Prior to requesting removal of the digital meter, I spent several months trying to find some physical reason that might explain the sudden onset of my symptoms.  As a last resort, I decided to do some research on the digital meter that had been installed.  I was astonished to find (based on information from the manufacturer's website) that the utility company had in fact replaced my analog meter with a Smart Meter.  Even more astonishing was the fact that my meter was changed, even though I had paid the opt-out fees in order to keep my analog meter.

    When I contacted the utility and told them what I had learned about the meter they had installed, and requested that they return my analog meter, I was once again told the unit was not a Smart Meter.  I explained to them that turning off the transmitter in no way changed the unit into a different kind of meter.  That would be like saying if you take the wheels off a car, it's no longer a car!

  • As regards the stimulus for my tinnitus

    The OED's entry for "tinnitus" is brief: "A sensation of ringing in the ears."

    However, what if you are standing in a churchyard and the bells are ringing? Or in school at the end of a lesson? That isn't really tinnitus.

    What of buzzing or hissing; continuous or pulsating? Are some of these sensations not tinnitus?

    So really and truly, tinnitus is a sensation of hearing something in the absence of an appropriate stimulus. The reason that I asked the question is that if there is a stimulus, arguably, it cannot be tinnitus.

    Note that I am not talking about a trigger such as an explosion, which has left persistent ringing due to damage to the inner ear.

  • Hi Chris,

    I was expecting you to try claiming that the ringing in my ears is not tinnitus once again. (Post of 13 April 2022 -RE: Severe Tinnitus Following the Installation of New Electricity Meters ) So, once again; the NHS defines tinnitus as: "The name for hearing noises that are not caused by sounds coming from the outside world."

    EF/EMFs are inaudible, they do not [edit - missed word "not"] create sound pressure waves, but I will agree that under their initial stimulus, what I heard as a result was not tinnitus. Moving away from their stimulus, the tone I heard carried on and on. That is tinnitus and it has rarely dropped below the threshold of perception since. Under their stimulus now, the tone is boosted, resulting in the duration the tone continues being extended, many days, not hours as it was at the beginning. Some people will hear a tone when under the stimulus of EMFs that fades immediately when they move away or turn off the stimulus - if they can. Fortunately for them, this is not tinnitus.

    Using your bells scenario: Once the bells stop, if you keep hearing the ringing going on and on, then this is tinnitus, even if it only lasts for a few minutes (hopefully, in this sort of case). In the last 4 years and nearly 2 months, there have been very few occasions when I haven't been bothered by the 14 kHz tone. During my ordeal with the meters in 2022, any reduction in the intensity of my tinnitus I achieved by seeking respite in rental accommodation, was gone in a few minutes, sometimes in a few seconds after walking through the front door. That can now be half an hour to a few hours, but it always returns.

    I've discussed my tinnitus with plenty of GPs, audiologists, an ENT specialist and even with the CEO of Tinnitus UK. They all agree I have tinnitus; high-pitched monotone non-pulsatile for the record. I gave the CEO all the scientific information I had found on ultrasound hearing and the effects of EMFs on the cochlea. He's thanked me on behalf of his researchers, who hadn't been aware of most of it. I hope they have been looking at it since, as in there, I am certain there are clues on how my type of tinnitus and others can be stopped, but it is no good stopping it, if every time you walk into your house or even down the street outside above where the mains supply cable is buried, if the resonant tone starts all over again, simply because the electrical power industry doesn't have a clue what it is feeding into people's homes and won't listen to people who are affected like myself, electrically qualified or not.

    It's difficult, really really difficult, to cope with this tone almost 24/7 Chris. Impossible at times in 2022 along with the other symptoms, hence the reason I kept leaving home for respite. I haven't had to seek respite for the sole purpose of reducing the tone's intensity or any other symptoms since since the meter was changed back to analogue. A lot of the other symptoms have never come back, but the tone I perceive continues to resonate on and on, insomnia is the other main remaining problem, thanks to the tone and a busy mind.

    Over 4 years 53 days and counting. I've much better things to be doing than keep pushing for people to believe how bad my ordeal was at the mercy of these meters, being made against good engineering practices, put into everybody's homes, while the diseases that have been associated with dirty electricity are going up and up, adding to the strain on the NHS and the benefits system. Yet nobody wants to know. It's all getting worse and one day it will blow up, there isn't an alternative, not while I and all the others affected are being made to look like fools instead of being heeded.

    Regards,

    Andrew

  • I was expecting you to try claiming that the ringing in my ears is not tinnitus once again.

    Andrew, my apologies - you obviously have a much better memory than I do.

    I don't know exactly what you experience.

    Using your bells scenario: Once the bells stop, if you keep hearing the ringing going on and on, then this is tinnitus, even if it only lasts for a few minutes (hopefully, in this sort of case).

    Agreed, and probably with a temporary threshold shift. However, one day, if you keep doing it, the ringing does not stop because the ears have been permanently damaged.

  • Thanks Chris. How can I forget your posts in my original discussion?!

    Further regarding the bells scenario, agreed; the more you are exposed the more prolonged the tinnitus and temporary threshold shifts become and as you say, can lead to permanent damage. So, if the sound is ultrasonic, unless you are a sufferer of the ultrasound hearing phenomenon, you won't hear anything, but threshold shifts in hearing can still occur, as they are a known symptom of exposure to ultrasound.

    Deafness related problems are something I've considered before, as when I had my hearing tested, it was declared normal for 'someone of my age'. Often tinnitus can be associated with an actual problem hearing problem, but not necessarily with the type of tinnitus I have. So the question is; are people having their hearing put at risk by having devices in their home that generate ultrasound and/or EMFs in the ultrasonic range, particularly those that are switched on 24/7? This could be even worse than I thought previously.

    A quick follow-up on my own previous post: Ultrasound as well as normal acoustic sound can be emitted from electronic devices as some electronic components will physically vibrate at the frequency of the electricity applied. See replies to my question about broadband routers emitting ultrasound for further information:  Why are some broadband routers emitting ultrasound?  Of course, this applies to switched-mode power supplies as well.  (RE: Severe Tinnitus Following the Installation of New Electricity Meters )

    Andrew

  • That book is one heck of a read ;-)  But yes interesting that most clinical kit cannot go above 8k,, I had not initially appreciated that kit was the limitation. Of course for speech and social interaction, and therefore for hearing aids and so on, that is a perfectly acceptable upper bound.  (even when a cat meows, at least to attract human attention, it keeps most of the energy in the 4-6KHz region apparently. reference  but in that paper they too don't look much above that, which is odd as cats sense to about 30KHz we think, so may well use the higher frequencies at least in cat to cat comms. One cat hissing at another is very broad band, almost white noise like indeed.. )
    Actually if you only have adult males speaking then a channel bandwidth of 2.5kHz is enough for reasonably clear comprehension, and as part of one of my other hobbies as a radio ham , I have listened to plenty of pretty chewed up audio. But it is nice to be able to hear the treble notes in music, and the harmonics that their non-sinusoidal form includes.
    Oddly my wife bought one of those 'ultrasound' mouse repellent things a few years ago, and she plugged it in the garage. It took me a few days to track it down - hearing directionality is awful at these frequencies, but once I found it,  it has been turned off ever since, except during a brief run-up to measure its frequencies with a modified bat detector. I remember concluding that what I could hear was not the tone itself, but I was aware that it was being modulated in a pulsing sort of way - but what it felt like was more like a change of air pressure when the thing keyed on or off or jumped to another frequency, with no real sensation during periods of continuous transmission of constant level and frequency. 

    regards Mike

    edited for clarity and typos

  • Actually if you only have adult males speaking then a channel bandwidth of 2.5kHz is enough for reasonably clear comprehension, and as par of one of my other hobbies as a radio ham , I have listened to plenty of pretty chewed up audio. But it is nice to be able to hear the treble notes in music, and the harmonics that their non-sinusoidal form includes.

    Which is why Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit (scroll down to A10) and the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme (scroll down to Table 7 compensate only for (pure tone) hearing loss averaged over 1 kHz, 2 kHz, and 3 kHz.

    If you scroll to the bottom of the table, you will see a note that compensation for tinnitus is included. There used to be a lower rate for hearing loss without tinnitus, but I think that the powers that be realised that with no objective way of assessing tinnitus, it was difficult to deny a claim where tinnitus was included.

    Don't forget that a soprano gets to 1 kHz and even the top note of a piano is only 4 kHz, although granted it is not a sine wave.

    ETA: I forgot to add that there is more to deciphering speech than the ears. Unlike fine wine, the auditory pathways and cortex do not improve with age.

  • even when a cat meows, at least to attract human attention, it keeps most of the energy in the 4-6KHz region apparently

    That seems a bit high for this one.

    Felix.m4a

  • A simple hearing test like that will tend to miss the important  high order vocal tract formants needed to distinguish between the vowels - look at these spectrographs of i, u and a, admittedly in a US accent which might have more treble. It is also possible that flat accents, like Hull, where all the vowels are closer to a flat ee, are easier to comprehend with treble hearing loss. Note these are not harmonics, but modulation in the noise power density by resonances of things like mouth cavities that are not vocal cords, closer to blowing air over the top of bottle of a time variable volume.
    sounds like S and sh extend well above 4KHz as well.

    https://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~robh/howto.html#figfrics 

    mMike.

  • On the other hand, analogue telephone systems frequently had a very sharp cut off at 3kHz (lots of factors depending!) and worked surprisingly well considering. That said:

    Don't forget that a soprano gets to 1 kHz and even the top note of a piano is only 4 kHz, although granted it is not a sine wave.

    However a lot of the information is in the harmonics above that. Back in the day when I was designing recording studio equipment it was surprising how much difference it made (to all listeners) when we stopped accepting 3dB down at 20kHz as "good enough" and started designing for 0.1dB down at 20kHz. I always suspected, but we never managed to prove (not that we had time to try terribly hard), that there were frequencies which we couldn't hear as single tones which were nevertheless affecting the sound. 

    (At the other end of the spectrum it's fascinating how most people can "hear" very low frequency tones that physically aren't there. Given the correct pattern of higher harmonics the brain will fill in for itself the missing fundamental tones. Which is fortunate as it means we can make bass instruments that are still just about portable.)

    It's an incredibly complex area - I've known profoundly deaf people who with the right hearing aids achieve remarkable levels of understanding of speech using only fragmentary parts of the spectrum, and then there are people with theoretically extremely good hearing who because of quirks in the ear / brain / comprehension interface find it really difficult. There's no direct correlation between frequency response and intelligibility, "it all depends".

    Hence I never get into discussions about what people can or can't perceive in their hearing - after many years of conducting listening tests professionally it became clear to me that it's all very individual. Fascinating area though. And the one thing we did find was that if anyone could repeatedly hear a difference between two sounds it was always possible to find out what they were hearing - but could take a lot of guess work to get there, as their interpretation of what they were hearing could be quite different from the actual physical signals. As an example, one of our most fascinating discoveries (by accident) was that pretty much anyone can tell that two otherwise identical sound recordings are different if one is 0.1dB louder than the other. But we never found anyone who perceived it is a loudness difference, just as a "difference", which would be described in many different ways. That's when you start realising how subtle all this stuff is.

  • If those in the IET leadership team don't bother to use EngX, then no wonder there is only a small fraction of the IET membership signed up to use the Forum and even fewer like yourself who regularly respond to posts.

    To pick up on this point (apologies that it's admittedly rather late), I think that's somewhat unfair. These forums are intended for engineer-to-engineer communication (whether members or not), not for member-to-IET communication. 

    I appreciate your frustration, but please don't complain that this forum doesn't achieve something which it was never intended to achieve.

    Thanks,

    Andy

Reply
  • If those in the IET leadership team don't bother to use EngX, then no wonder there is only a small fraction of the IET membership signed up to use the Forum and even fewer like yourself who regularly respond to posts.

    To pick up on this point (apologies that it's admittedly rather late), I think that's somewhat unfair. These forums are intended for engineer-to-engineer communication (whether members or not), not for member-to-IET communication. 

    I appreciate your frustration, but please don't complain that this forum doesn't achieve something which it was never intended to achieve.

    Thanks,

    Andy

Children
  • Hi Andy,

    From the IET website: IET Membership > 157,000 

    EngX membership from current figures for 'connecting': 5,129, of which 3,684 are members.

    I think the Institution would all like to see the percentage of its members using EngX much closer to 97% than 3%.

    You said that the forum has "the technical authority of a coffee room or pub chat" (RE: Reasons why I suffered tinnitus, insomnia, chronic fatigue, and other health problems after having digital electricity meters installed ) and with those sort of numbers, I can see why you and others might think so. I disagree with the analogy, simply because there's the ability for our discussions to seen by anyone indefinitely. This puts EngX well beyond the corner of a bar or cafe where a few others might overhear the conversation, with the chances of any of those people writing up notes and publishing them online for all to see being quite minimal.

    Many discussions I've seen on EngX receive far fewer views than this one and the original one. It's felt at times like my posts are one-way member to public communication, simply by comparing the viewing figures to the EngX membership size and I do get some feedback from others outside the IET and EngX as I reported down in this post:  RE: Reasons why I suffered tinnitus, insomnia, chronic fatigue, and other health problems after having digital electricity meters installedThanks though to yourself and others who are posting replies. It counters the thought that absolutely no one in the IET and EngX are interested, even if at times in disagreement with what I've stated. It does at least lead to some actual discussion on the matter.

    If the management took interest in EngX discussions that led to some changes in policy/regulations that makes our lives better and safer, then I'm sure more engineers and technologists would join EngX.

    This discussion was only started after a conversation behind the scenes where I was encouraged to do so in order to raise my concerns, as opposed to other means of doing so. So that's where some of my frustration comes from. It's almost two and a half since this discussion began and despite there being others within EngX who have come forward suffering with tinnitus and/or other ES/EHS symptoms, finding people outside of EngX who've had or are having similar horrible experiences and finding science explaining how these symptoms are being caused by electrical equipment, there's no one showing any interest who can actually do something to avert what I believe is growing into a major health crisis affecting millions, not just a few members of EngX who've dared to join me in speaking out. There's already too many people ill in the UK and elsewhere with symptoms that have been associated with EHS, whether or not they are caused by EHS, the scope is rather broad, there's no hiding from that. What we can't afford is to increase this number by putting things in people's homes that haven't followed good engineering design practice and slipped past the regulations that ought to have ensured that they had.

    I've had another person contact me behind the scenes complaining of EHS symptoms suspected to be from an L&G E470 meter this week. (I hope more on this can be posted soon, subject to the person's consent.) What is now clear through my two discussions is that there's something seriously wrong with these particular meters, that seriously affects the health of a small number of people. What is not fair is that these people are being disbelieved and being told they must have this meter or similarly harmful meter in their homes if they want to keep their electricity supply.

    What I don't know and dread to think, is how many unsuspecting members of the public are also suffering? I'm seeing statistics that indicate a correlation between the growth of certain technologies and symptoms associated with EHS, but it is too difficult to discriminate between all the possible causes of such symptoms. Sharing knowledge and discussing how to find signs of this all too taboo and covert problem is vital if we are going to find out and do something about it.

    Regards,

    Andrew