Bridging Systems Engineering in Civil Projects

I work as a Systems Engineer on a predominantly Civil Engineering project. A recurring issue is that the Civil Engineers don't fully grasp Systems Engineering. While I can guide them through the correct processes, merely following a process doesn't equate to understanding it. This often leads to a superficial, tick-box approach that lacks comprehension of the underlying rationale.

Civil Engineers should possess some level of systems thinking, though they may not realize it. The Accreditation of Higher Education Programmes (AHEP) document stipulates that accredited courses should include an integrated/systems approach, incorporating some systems engineering principles. The design element also encompasses a broader perspective of the design process.

For professional registration via UK-SPEC, Competency B1 focuses on project requirements. Competency C addresses various project management aspects, which are closely linked to Systems Engineering.

Effective communication often requires speaking the audience's language, particularly when reporting to senior leadership. Establishing shared concepts and values across different disciplines is crucial.

I am considering developing a "Systems Engineering for Non-Systems Engineers" training course. This wouldn't aim to fully train them as Systems Engineers—a process that typically takes 2-3 years through a Master's program—but to provide them with an understanding of the key principles and their importance.

Earlier in my career, while working in aerospace, new graduates were encouraged to attend a course by the aerodynamics department to understand the critical aspects of aerodynamic design. I still remember some of the aspects taught to this day.

I am interested to know if others have attempted similar training initiatives, whether in Systems Engineering or other disciplines embedded within another field, and what their experiences were.

Parents
  • Civil Engineers should possess some level of systems thinking, though they may not realize it

    I did Electrical/Electronic Engineering in the 60s/70s, then a Masters in Control Engineering at Sheffield University.

    They differentiated between systems engineering (i.e. concerned with e system as a whole) and control engineering  (i.e. the dynamics of the system)

    We had one lecturer (a mechanical engineer) who told us that civil engineers understood the static forces on a finished box girder bridge but not the dynamics of building one. This was at the time when box girder bridges were falling down during construction.

    Teaching civil and other engineers the importance of understanding the system as a whole is worthwhile and probably achievable.

    Teaching nonlinear dynamics a different ball game altogether.

    My PhD was in mathematical modelling of interacting biological systems. There was no way the surgeons and biologists could be taught enough to do it themselves.This is why, when it comes to the dynamics of complex systems the preference is for multi-disciplinary teams

    The danger is that civil (or any other discipline) engineers might not know what they don't know, but should know.

    As the saying goes "It Ain’t What You Don’t Know That Gets You Into Trouble. It’s What You Know for Sure That Just Ain’t So"

    quoteinvestigator.com/.../

  • Hello Bernard:-

    I was very interested in your comment about doing your PhD in Mathematical modelling of interacting biological systems.

    Was this taken before or after the discovery of the impact of the gut bacteria?

    With the rapid rate of finding new biological (feedback) pathways -- According to the medical journals I read every day (JAMA, NEJM etc) they announce one new significant pathway nearly every week- I think that it must be an impossible task to keep modelling up-to-date.

    Then there is the problem associated with long term effects of external factors (examples taking medicines) on biological systems. I try and keep up with the negative effects of commercial medicines (FDA black box warnings) which are sometimes very important (example a very highly requested drug which can result in thyroid cancers).

    I would be very interested in knowing if you are currently employed in the medical field!

    Peter Brooks

    Palm Bay 

Reply
  • Hello Bernard:-

    I was very interested in your comment about doing your PhD in Mathematical modelling of interacting biological systems.

    Was this taken before or after the discovery of the impact of the gut bacteria?

    With the rapid rate of finding new biological (feedback) pathways -- According to the medical journals I read every day (JAMA, NEJM etc) they announce one new significant pathway nearly every week- I think that it must be an impossible task to keep modelling up-to-date.

    Then there is the problem associated with long term effects of external factors (examples taking medicines) on biological systems. I try and keep up with the negative effects of commercial medicines (FDA black box warnings) which are sometimes very important (example a very highly requested drug which can result in thyroid cancers).

    I would be very interested in knowing if you are currently employed in the medical field!

    Peter Brooks

    Palm Bay 

Children
  • Was this taken before or after the discovery of the impact of the gut bacteria?

    I started my PhD in 1970, which was well before any knowledge of the role of gut bacteria.

    It was before much was known about large populations of interacting non-linear oscillators.

    I modeled the electrical activity in the human small intestine which is created by ion activity across cell membranes.

    My big finding was the way the oscillators would move into and out of phase and a cause a group of them to synchronise and move down the gut - a possible cause of peristalsis.

    If you are interested, this is the paper that got published.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/18699018_A_mathematical_model_of_the_slow-wave_electrical_activity_of_the_human_small_intestine

    The whole area of intestinal dynamics is much more complex then we ever imagined and in now known as neurogastroenterology 

    I would be very interested in knowing if you are currently employed in the medical field!

    I never was. I've worked in a variety of engineering areas but I've always been interested in nonlinear dynamics. I am retired now but much of my latter work was on the dynamics of project and system development in government and large corporations.

  • Hello Bernard:- So you are a OAP like me!

    It appears that you are interested in Modeling Astronomical systems like Galaxies.. I see that the latest data suggests the center of our galaxy has less mass than previously thought and that means we have more dark matter on the outside of the arms. 

    I am more interested in what is dark matter and dark energy, the strong force, virtual particles, the discontinuous nature of spacetime, and the rapid formation of early Galaxies.

    Peter Brooks

    Palm Bay 

    P,S. Another one of my interests is the negative effects of drugs on the human body as one ages.  

    .