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The Swiss Way

Roger B


We recently had our kitchen rebuilt and at the same time the distribution box was updated. Here are a few pictures to show a non UK installation. The supply is 3 phase 20A per phase. Lights and sockets are generally 1.5mm2  singles in conduit. Appliance power (2 or 3 phase) is usually cables in conduit. Sockets and lights are on the same circuit for a large room or a number of small rooms. Neutral used to be yellow and is now blue. Phases are red, white and black. Circuits after the switch can be any other colour.

64fe214e3a32373cfc13fd3fbe5acb1d-huge-01-bare-kitchen.jpg


Bare kitchen with first fix cabling

c8e58ae6697dc5cf980ca9d0337030aa-huge-02-ready-for-a-light-fitting.jpg


Ready for a light fitting

d27806d930806064e9394b54aefd6b84-huge-03-old-distribution-box-with-new-cables.jpg


The bottle fuses were for the appliances, 2 phase for the oven and hob and 3 phase for the dishwasher. The Bathroom and toilet had an RCD. The bedrooms and living room MCBs with neutral isolators.

3d5cf47b80207873e579b996534ead17-huge-04-swiss-plasterers-fill-the-boxes-as-well.jpg


Plasterers are the same everywhere.

82c35cdf1a47626fa161e9e19332df02-huge-06-space-for-the-oven-and-fridge-freezer.jpg


Space for the oven and fridge freezer with wiring.

2de8561beed4864fb2e2b66c36f58a9e-huge-07-wiring-for-the-hob-and-sockets.jpg


Wiring for the hob (cable) and sockets (singles).

1b1ec8c3f2fc3dcbf6d148774ced568d-huge-08-rebuilt-distribution-box.jpg


New distribution box. 3 phase MCBs for the oven and hob. RCDs for the dishwasher and lighting and power circuits.

33f52c124fa13fc9ed9db64aa66f203d-huge-09-documentation.jpg
592124a253ca1c378a7623a6ce6586c3-huge-10-supply-details.jpg


Supply details

8af10914d97f61cc680fa0e3ba8fef3d-huge-11-incoming-cable-to-the-block.jpg


Incoming cable to the block (6 apartments)

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Meter cupboard


.37d54f8a56d370a0ae7c78b8596399c4-huge-13-finished.jpg


Finished ?


Best regards


Roger

  • 0
    It's not just the Swiss that are confused on that point - it's only with the 18th Ed have we got rid of the phrase "The usual form of TN-C-S is as show, where the supply is TN-C and the arrangement in the installation is TN-S."  from fig 3.9 of BS 7671 (my emphasis).


      - Andy.
  • 0
    Der Schutzleite PE wird ab der Anschlussicherung abgefurt..

    (the protective cable PE is lead off separately from the (place of ) the connexion fuses )

    WOW !

    So much for IEC standardization. 

    To me that, and more important , to  IEC 60364   would be  TNC-s, namely TNC on the big side, and s on the small side.


    Interessant zu lesen aber.


  • 0


    Andy, it appears that the Swiss definition of TN-S is slightly different and applies after the main fuse. The attached picture is taken from 'Elektrische Installationen und Apparate by H. R. Ris' (just to avoid any copyright problems ? ). What is described as TN-S is after the main fuse. What is described as TN-C keeps the PEN right to the point of use as long as it is larger than 10mm2. TN-S-C combines both, splitting the neutral and earth when the CSA drops below 10mm2.


    Z, A nice tool, but as ever made in Germany and labelled in English ?


    Best regards


    Roger

    cf9a17ff24f36dc99340196b38d85a15-huge-tnsc.jpg
  • 0
    This plug in tester seems to be a handy piece of kit.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7iRVEdc6Ng


    Z.
  • 0

    The internal cover is sealed so I couldn't look at the Neutral-Earth connection.



    The CU label says the earthing system is TN-S - if that's true then presumably there shouldn't be a local N-PE link.


    Good to see alternative ways of doing things.


      - Andy.
  • 0
    Mike, I noticed that the cover on the main fuse was not sealed and cautiously opened it for a look.

    afdedb2b01eaf995eab82785ed6099a6-huge-14-main-fuse.jpg


    The internal cover is sealed so I couldn't look at the Neutral-Earth connection. What was interesting is that they are 63A fuses and 16mm2 cable for six apartments.

    01fe16567d387b6f9e2ec5e7f63bdd77-huge-15-bonding-across-the-water-meter.jpg


    I haven't located the main bonding to the water system, it may be in the boiler room, but this is the bonding across the wireless linked water meter. No green/yellow or tags in sight.


    Best regards


    Roger
  • 0
    Ah, so the box with the 3 blade fuses is also, presumably, the place where the N-E bond and TNC-s split occurs. They obviously don't share our desire for lots of green and yellow singles to rush off from a MET at tht point to the water fuel pipes for the heating and so on. You had me looking up ceander, to find it is a trade name for wave concentric or 'wavecon'.

    Thankyou, it is interesting to compare styles, and to remind ourselves of how much of what we see as being set in stone as immovable truth is really our local habit.
  • 0
    Mike,

    The incomer is 27.8mm diameter which I believe is 4x25mm2  with a copper ceander armour (hence the yellow stripe). The main fuse can take up to 160A DIN blade fuses, I guess that 100A is fitted. The outgoing cable is 25.3mm diameter which I believe is 5x25mm2.


    There is a communal oil fired boiler for heating as well as a communal electric water heater for summer use. This comes off the 7th meter. There is also the usual contactor system that switches the washroom onto your metered supply when you insert your 'magic key'.


    They are indeed C13 RCCBOs. This seems to have been a recent change to get the maximum from the 1.5mm2 final circuits.


    The fuses are 20A but the rated current on the plate is 32A I'm not sure why.


    Dusty,


    Thank you for the link. The comments are also interesting. Some of the colour coding is a bit dubious but otherwise it's not too bad. One of the key differences for the people in the UK is that the lower PSSC due to the load being split over three phase means that the UK 'fudge ' is not needed and mix and match consumer units are no problem.


    Best regards


    Roger
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member


    Similar get up ...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mLIkFoOYuqE


  • 0
    Interesting to see how modest the currents are and how thin the cable is once you allow 3 phases up to the consumer unit. Equally, it is comparable to a 60A or 80A single phase supply, just sliced and diced accross the phases so you can get away with what I assume is 4mm 4 core as the supply.

    I have a few queries  if you would be so kind as to indulge.

    Can you estimate the diameter or CSA of the incomer to the block - it seems dreadfully thin for 6 flats of 32A 3ph each, but I may be being fooled by the perspective.

    Also, how is the place heated, as I see no Heitzung on the schedule?

    Also are there really 13A MCBs, or is that a typo on the part of the schedule -I thought Swiss final ccts were 10A?

    Also I see it lists the incomers as 32A per phase, not 20, am I right to presume that is the rating of the death or glory fuses on the meter panel  ?

    Cheers

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