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What is the best way to wire ceiling lights?

Arran Cameron
The ceiling rose junction box with its loop-in wiring is now really showing its age and is no longer a practical (or even safe) installation for most residents who wish to install fancy light fittings. It is still, however, the most common arrangement for new build houses and rewires, probably as the result of the electrician's training and how they consider it to be the norm or they cannot think of (potentially better) alternatives.


So, what is the best way to wire ceiling lights? Should neutral wires be taken to the switches or not?
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    are unable or unwilling to add these advanced features or offer anything truly different from the standard fare

     



    But these "advanced features" are expensive. When expensive stuff does not fulfill "customer expectation" [ code for "you will give me what I want even though I have no real idea myself but expect a free design and consultation all the same" ] you fully expect the Sparky to come back several times after the event to replace the failed expensive item FOC , give you yet another tutorial on "how it works"  and offer slavery indemnity for life.

    we all know what a pain in the *** they are to fit, no matter which style of wiring has been done at the ceiling rose. 

     



    Yep, microscopic tunnel terminals. Only big enough for bell wire. That reminds me, twenty years ago or so, a so called reputable Electrical Engineer [ made a big deal of being high up in IEE ] called me into to his house "to sort out some problems". He was a bit of a have a go hero, but hey ho , he was IEE. The resultant DIY wiring would make any self respecting  sparky weep. Yes the lights were wired in bell wire, but that was the least of the problems.

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    Sparkingchip:

    Most electricians consider using junction boxes and inefficient and bad practice.




    What is the reason behind this?


    I consider having 3 cables emerging from a hole in the ceiling as inefficient and bad practice. An essential criteria of my lighting installation was to have just one cable emerging from the ceiling for each ceiling rose or light fitting.



     

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    Reflecting upon this, the answer must be, "it depends".


    Modest accommodation, let's say student halls, one lamp per room, loop at the rose.


    Problem with looping at the switch is that for n luminaires, or group of luminaires, we need n + 2 cables. Not good for a single lamp, but not bad for a sitting room with three lamps (or groups of lamps).


    Rewire - pulling a single switch drop under the old capping may be a doddle: pulling three cables may not be.
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    Well I am a loop in at rose by nature rather than at switch. However I have done both and hybrids too.
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    Arran Cameron:




    Sparkingchip:

    Most electricians consider using junction boxes and inefficient and bad practice.




    What is the reason behind this?


    I consider having 3 cables emerging from a hole in the ceiling as inefficient and bad practice. An essential criteria of my lighting installation was to have just one cable emerging from the ceiling for each ceiling rose or light fitting.



     


     






    Accessibility issues for testing and maintenance as well as the additional cost and labour for installation.


    Trying to find the cause of a RCD protecting a lighting circuit  tripping when the circuit is wired through junction boxes can be a nightmare of a job.


    Andy Betteridge 

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    My take is :-

    with T & E.

    1/ Looping in at ceiling rose is the way I was brought up, I am used to it and can do it in my sleep.

     Disconnecting the switch feed and return as one cable aids fault finding and means you can leave the other lights running.


    2/ Looping in at switch boxes , OK same again and you are not up ladders when disconnecting and testing.

    Switching other than one gang one way makes it look a bit more complicated to the untrained eye.

    I never use 16mm back boxes always 25mm min asI think it bad (OK then non preffered) practice on all but one gang one way switches.


    3/ Looping in at hidden junction boxes in lofts or under floorboards I just do not like at all.


    so 1/ or 2/ above I prefer and 1/ is my favourite but it does not always favour modern light fittings.


    Of course you can do a hybrid of 1/ and/or 2/ and it gets interesting for the next person

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    ebee:

    3/ Looping in at hidden junction boxes in lofts or under floorboards I just do not like at all.




    Does the same apply to Surewire junction boxes in the same way as the old fashioned round junction boxes?


    Surewire junction light and switch junction boxes are available in two sizes - 2 lights and 4 lights - and multiple junction boxes can be connected in either a loop-in or a radial topology. As previously stated, they are MF and have cable clamps.


    I'm wondering what electricians think of them and whether any install them on a regular basis.


    I don't have any connections with or financial interests in Surewire.


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    Lively jubbly! If nothing ever goes wrong with the circuit.


    How on earth do you fault find on a circuit installed with concealed junction boxes?


    Let not beat about the bush and say that installing a lighting circuit using concealed junction boxes is a stupid idea.


    Andy Betteridge
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    The only way I could see me using something like Surewire junction boxes is if they could be put in an accessible place, e.g. near the top of an under-stairs cupboard
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    Some years ago I was working on a job and a plasterer said “You’re not a proper electrician, are you?”


    I said “Why?”


    The plasterer replied “You don’t knock holes in the finished plasterwork when you second fixing and testing!”.


    Joking apart, electrician’s are generally considered to be destructive people who go into jobs and start knocking holes in walls and ceilings that have been plastered and are ready for decorating or ripping up floors, because there issues with concealed cables and junction boxes.


    Whilst you may not prevent damage to a cable due to the stupidity of other people, you can at least not conceal any junction boxes, particularly when there is not any need for the junction boxes in the first place.


    Andy Betteridge

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