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When is a spark an arc? OR - When is an arc a spark?

Just watched some chap on the E5 youtube channel visiting Eaton in Austria. Eaton AFDDs have been something of a subject of ridicule in youtubeland, with various respected electrical content providers demonstrating through various real-world means that they don't function. So, off this chap goes to Eaton's HQ in Vienna where they provide him with a aluminium case full of test kit, complete with the Eaton logo and fitted out with various Eaton devices inside.

One of the devices is the Eaton AFFDD which has famously failed to operate on numerous youtube video presentations.

Of course, it trips when tested with their own test kit. After all, no point in trying to sell something which isn't really needed unless you can demonstrate that it actually works, so Eaton helpfully provides the 'right' arc signature so that the device can trip on command in front of all those cynical doubters.

Apparently, all those heath robinson youtubers have been getting it wrong because they have unhelpfully been simulating real world arcing events which these devices won't actually pick up. You see, according to the 'experts' you need an arc instead of a spark to trip the device! What the hell is the difference?

Oh how I laughed! Is this how far they'll go to flog you some old tat you don't really need?

Just how many different arcs and sparks are there out there? Has anyone told David Attenborough of all these new species to explore?

Feel free to jump in!

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0 Former Community Member over 5 years ago

whjohnson:

Just watched some chap on the E5 youtube channel visiting Eaton in Austria. Eaton AFDDs have been something of a subject of ridicule in youtubeland, with various respected electrical content providers demonstrating through various real-world means that they don't function. So, off this chap goes to Eaton's HQ in Vienna where they provide him with a aluminium case full of test kit, complete with the Eaton logo and fitted out with various Eaton devices inside.

One of the devices is the Eaton AFFDD which has famously failed to operate on numerous youtube video presentations.

Of course, it trips when tested with their own test kit. After all, no point in trying to sell something which isn't really needed unless you can demonstrate that it actually works, so Eaton helpfully provides the 'right' arc signature so that the device can trip on command in front of all those cynical doubters.

Apparently, all those heath robinson youtubers have been getting it wrong because they have unhelpfully been simulating real world arcing events which these devices won't actually pick up. You see, according to the 'experts' you need an arc instead of a spark to trip the device! What the hell is the difference?

Oh how I laughed! Is this how far they'll go to flog you some old tat you don't really need?

Just how many different arcs and sparks are there out there? Has anyone told David Attenborough of all these new species to explore?

Feel free to jump in!

The "chap" is actually a Chartered Engineer, and one of the youngest IET Fellows of all time, if it makes any difference, and the video of the test rig was pretty much all we were allowed to film. I know because I was filming.

When we went into their R&D laboratory, understandably to be honest, we had to leave our phones & cameras in the board room.

What you have to realise is that they have to build the devices to the EN standard, 62606, and that defines the requirements that they have to detect, and that is pretty covered by the video I think.

One of the things that they look at in the analysis of the arc is repeatability, and the way that the other youtube video's seemed to have addressed the issue does't give the repeatability of the arc over several cycles of the supply, this combined with the characteristics, which both Eaton & Siemens agree over, are critical to the detection algorithms that are used, even though they may both do the specific detection in differing ways.

We have been to see both companies and reviewed a lot of their information and products.

There is a limit, obviously, to what they would show us as it is their intellectual property.

The random generation of sparks by touching a few bits of wire together when wiggling them around doesn't give you the arc stability that is required for detection.

Eaton had the bit of wire to be wiggled together like John Ward (JW on YouTube) originally had, and demonstrated the arc pattern on their test rig, which unfortunately didn't fulfil the required criteria.
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0 Former Community Member over 5 years ago

whjohnson:

Just watched some chap on the E5 youtube channel visiting Eaton in Austria. Eaton AFDDs have been something of a subject of ridicule in youtubeland, with various respected electrical content providers demonstrating through various real-world means that they don't function. So, off this chap goes to Eaton's HQ in Vienna where they provide him with a aluminium case full of test kit, complete with the Eaton logo and fitted out with various Eaton devices inside.

One of the devices is the Eaton AFFDD which has famously failed to operate on numerous youtube video presentations.

Of course, it trips when tested with their own test kit. After all, no point in trying to sell something which isn't really needed unless you can demonstrate that it actually works, so Eaton helpfully provides the 'right' arc signature so that the device can trip on command in front of all those cynical doubters.

Apparently, all those heath robinson youtubers have been getting it wrong because they have unhelpfully been simulating real world arcing events which these devices won't actually pick up. You see, according to the 'experts' you need an arc instead of a spark to trip the device! What the hell is the difference?

Oh how I laughed! Is this how far they'll go to flog you some old tat you don't really need?

Just how many different arcs and sparks are there out there? Has anyone told David Attenborough of all these new species to explore?

Feel free to jump in!

The "chap" is actually a Chartered Engineer, and one of the youngest IET Fellows of all time, if it makes any difference, and the video of the test rig was pretty much all we were allowed to film. I know because I was filming.

When we went into their R&D laboratory, understandably to be honest, we had to leave our phones & cameras in the board room.

What you have to realise is that they have to build the devices to the EN standard, 62606, and that defines the requirements that they have to detect, and that is pretty covered by the video I think.

One of the things that they look at in the analysis of the arc is repeatability, and the way that the other youtube video's seemed to have addressed the issue does't give the repeatability of the arc over several cycles of the supply, this combined with the characteristics, which both Eaton & Siemens agree over, are critical to the detection algorithms that are used, even though they may both do the specific detection in differing ways.

We have been to see both companies and reviewed a lot of their information and products.

There is a limit, obviously, to what they would show us as it is their intellectual property.

The random generation of sparks by touching a few bits of wire together when wiggling them around doesn't give you the arc stability that is required for detection.

Eaton had the bit of wire to be wiggled together like John Ward (JW on YouTube) originally had, and demonstrated the arc pattern on their test rig, which unfortunately didn't fulfil the required criteria.
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When is a spark an arc? OR - When is an arc a spark?

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