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RCD socket outlet.

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
Hi all,
Any comments on this one most welcome!
A customer wants me to replace an existing one gang 13 amp socket outlet with a double.
The problem is that there's no rcd protection there, so i'm thinking that as I am in effect adding a socket outlet I should fit an rcd protected one?
If I were replacing like for like it wouldn't bother me at all but the fact it's going to be a double makes me think an rcd protected one is the thing to do, just seems a bit ott to fit one rcd protected socket when there are probably 20 others that aren't rcd'd!
  • 0
    "requirement to NOT bond pipes on a PME connection. We couldn't stop laughing! " I did assume UKPN to mean say copper ext part in this instance
  • 0
    UKPN


    Over the last week I have met with a couple of your colleague on site, one to shut down a transformer to permit some work to be done on a panel with the supply isolated and one in connection with changing fuses on a transformer to an ACB to permit the connection of new AWA cables. On both occasions they have been very professional and helpful.


    One of these people is going to do the training and exam to upgrade from 17th Edition to the 18th and I have agreed to help him in that process. One of the changes in the 18th Edition is the provision to omit bonding to pipework however it is conditional on having an insulated insert at the point of entry of the pipework into the building. With the insulated insert the pipework is no longer an extraneous conductive part so no longer requires bonding.


    You may be interested to know that the DNOs are represented by the ENA on JPEL as is the HSE. 


    I hope you have found this helpful and you never know we may meet on site one day.

  • 0
    Alcomax


    The omission of SRCDs I do not  think a mistake by JPEL it is a deliberate decision otherwise it would have been included in the recent corigendum.


    You say you would fit these as a departure from BS 7671. A departure is a deliberate act and must be no less safe than the provisions of BS 7671.Have a look at the extract below from BS 7288:2016 and after careful reading tell me if you think they are suitable as a stand alone device for Additional Protection?


    This British Standard applies to residual current-operated devices (RCD)

    incorporated in, or specifically intended for use with, single pole and neutral

    and single pole and switched neutral and double pole socket-outlets, with

    provision of earthing of the socket-outlet for household and similar uses (SRCD:

    socket-outlet residual current devices). SRCDs, according to this standard, are

    intended to be used in single phase systems such as phase to neutral. SRCDs are

    only intended to provide supplementary protection downstream of the SRCD.

    SRCDs are intended for use in circuits where the fault protection and additional

    protection are already assured upstream of the SRCD.
  • 0
    I`m glad you all laughed UKPN I think the rest of us would laugh too (or cry perhaps).


    In fact I once had an industrial electrician claim that he had it on good authority that the RCDs we all love and use need only work 5 times then they could fail and that would be a pass as far as the RCD standard was concerned so you`d need to buy a new one after 5 trips, therefore you should never test them because you`d be using up some usefull RCD life.


    Long live folklore I`m afraid?



    In fact another one, this time burglar alarms.

    One evening on TV there was a prog about alarms and during that there was a mention about alarm deterent value and how if you had such an alarm it was more likely they`d choose not you but move onto someone else nearby instead.

    Next day a bloke at work told my Dad I should not fit burglar alarms because it increased the chances of my neighbours down the street being burgled ( much as to say it would draw burglars into the area). I suppose that strictly logically he was not completely incorrect but I feel he`d missed the whole point of the mention
  • 0
    Electricians are not taking any notice of this "regulation." These RCD sockets are life savers, the obvious protection for a Flymo. Whats next? banning those great little plug -in trips?


    I was talking to an electrician earlier today and he mentioned there is now a requirement to NOT bond pipes on a PME connection. We couldn't stop laughing!


    I said its as bad as that hairbrained idea from a couple of years ago where they said you must now have a metal (unearthed) fusebox on a TT system! 


    He said whatever next? EV chargers from a PME terminal. You couldn't make it up!


    Regards, UKPN.?



  • 0

    John Peckham:

    Andy


    Thanks for the cue? Sockets with an integral RCD to BS7288 are not regognised in BS 7671, in fact they are excluded as BS 7671 only permis 3 devices for Additional Protection for use by ordinary persons.


    SRCD sockets and FCU to BS 7288 can only be used where they have upstream RCD protection. I know that sparkles may think that is daft, wish it were not true or may disagree with me. If so I would commend they read BS 7288: 2016.


    i would suggest Dave you fit an RCBO in the board, if it will not take one then fit an external RCD in an enclosure next to the board.




    Us sparkles do read BS7671. I have no particular inclination to read BS7288. BS7671 does have mistakes and the omission of SRCDs is one of them this time round. As far as I am aware JPEL/64 have acknowledged the error and this will be addressed in a future amendment, probably March 2022.  So carry on fitting them. If you feel uncomfortable about the BS7671 typo, then you can always record it as a departure. Though, IMO, that is a bit pendatic for domestic works, but perhaps for non-dom, where there is an explicit contract to comply with BS7671:2018, it is maybe a good idea to record as a departure. You will still likely get a raised eyebrow from the more technically minded clients when trying to explain the reason for stating a departure.

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Many thanks to all that have replied on this one, greatly appreciated,

    regards,

    Dave.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Hi Weirdbeard, 

    Yes that converta socket is the way i'm going to go with this one, she does want some other work done at a later date including more sockets so when that happens i'll go for the stand alone rcd next to the c/unit.

    A year or so ago i'd have been talking her into a c/unit change but as i'm out of the scam now I don't do notifiable work!

    regards,

    Dave.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    daveparry1:
    Hi all,
    Any comments on this one most welcome!
    A customer wants me to replace an existing one gang 13 amp socket outlet with a double.
    The problem is that there's no rcd protection there, so i'm thinking that as I am in effect adding a socket outlet I should fit an rcd protected one?
    If I were replacing like for like it wouldn't bother me at all but the fact it's going to be a double makes me think an rcd protected one is the thing to do, just seems a bit ott to fit one rcd protected socket when there are probably 20 others that aren't rcd'd!




    Hi Dave how about one of them newfangled converter sockets that changes an existing single to a double outlet, the only required paperwork is the invoice :)

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    Chris Pearson:




    weirdbeard:




    John Peckham:

    Andy


    Thanks for the cue? Sockets with an integral RCD to BS7288 are not regognised in BS 7671, in fact they are excluded as BS 7671 only permis 3 devices for Additional Protection for use by ordinary persons.


    SRCD sockets and FCU to BS 7288 can only be used where they have upstream RCD protection. I know that sparkles may think that is daft, wish it were not true or may disagree with me. If so I would commend they read BS 7288: 2016.




    its £304 to get the new standard that isn't yet in force for non members of BSI



    Try your local library - at one time Hampshire Libraries had a subscription, but sadly for the county's residents, no longer.


     




    Thanks for the advice Chris, but i don't think I will bother, reading the British standard for each and every item of electrical equipment ever installed could be quite time consuming, for even the most conscientious of sparkles ! 


     

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