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RCD socket outlet.

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
Hi all,
Any comments on this one most welcome!
A customer wants me to replace an existing one gang 13 amp socket outlet with a double.
The problem is that there's no rcd protection there, so i'm thinking that as I am in effect adding a socket outlet I should fit an rcd protected one?
If I were replacing like for like it wouldn't bother me at all but the fact it's going to be a double makes me think an rcd protected one is the thing to do, just seems a bit ott to fit one rcd protected socket when there are probably 20 others that aren't rcd'd!
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    Anyone else concour or disagree (mine is only a limited sample)?






    The vast majority of RCDs I have tested that were in spec have tripped at less than 30mS at 30mA and at 150mA. 


    I will keep on installing RCD protected SFCUs and sockets where the customer is not prepared to pay for or cannot afford the work to provide additional protection on a circuit. I recently put an IP rated RCD double socket in an old unused milking parlour to replace a damaged double socket. It is used to supply equipment outside, the supply is PME and the parlour is full of nice earthy metalwork not to mention the damp walls. I am happy I left it safer than before. I know the farmer would not pay to have his various old TP distribution boards TTd and RCD protection put in if I were to try and comply with 7671.

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Andy J, thanks very much for the well put summary, it is a bit of a mess, sadly not that unusual!


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    kfh:







    Anyone else concour or disagree (mine is only a limited sample)?






    The vast majority of RCDs I have tested that were in spec have tripped at less than 30mS at 30mA and at 150mA. 


    I will keep on installing RCD protected SFCUs and sockets where the customer is not prepared to pay for or cannot afford the work to provide additional protection on a circuit. I recently put an IP rated RCD double socket in an old unused milking parlour to replace a damaged double socket. It is used to supply equipment outside, the supply is PME and the parlour is full of nice earthy metalwork not to mention the damp walls. I am happy I left it safer than before. I know the farmer would not pay to have his various old TP distribution boards TTd and RCD protection put in if I were to try and comply with 7671.


     




    I too have used the weatherproof R.C.D. protected 13 Amp sockets for outdoor use. I have also used them in addition to an internal 30mA R.C.D. to provide belt and braces' protection to garden equipment such as pond pumps and lights on a T.T. system. I feel better having more than one R.C.D. protecting outdoor equipment in many cases, especially as the outdoor R.C.D. is subjected to heat, cold and possible insect invasion or corrosion due to damp, which may adversely affect its operation when needed.


    Z.

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    This may be of interest..........

    https://professional-electrician.com/features/rcd-protection-is-it-fit-for-purpose/


    Z.
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    kfh:

    The vast majority of RCDs I have tested that were in spec have tripped at less than 30mS at 30mA and at 150mA. 


    I will keep on installing RCD protected SFCUs and sockets where the customer is not prepared to pay for or cannot afford the work to provide additional protection on a circuit. I recently put an IP rated RCD double socket in an old unused milking parlour to replace a damaged double socket. It is used to supply equipment outside, the supply is PME and the parlour is full of nice earthy metalwork not to mention the damp walls. I am happy I left it safer than before. I know the farmer would not pay to have his various old TP distribution boards TTd and RCD protection put in if I were to try and comply with 7671.




    Isn't that the fundamental point? Work need only comply with BS 7671 if the customer will pay for it. Otherwise, do the best that you can and certainly don't leave things worse than they were.


    I might add that it is wise to keep a record of any discussion concerning non-compliance.

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    31918e0e68d18b0a7ec25c0da3f4d88b-huge-nic-bs7288-003--for-sending.jpg
    bca0b2f53bc7553831dae15026faf1d6-huge-nic-bs7288-007--tosend.jpg

    Look what I found in the Autumn Edition  of Connections page 37.


    Especially for those of you that do not get this Club Mag.
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    Alcomax:

    Look what I found in the Autumn Edition  of Connections page 37.


    Especially for those of you that do not get this Club Mag.




    Well spotted. Many thanks.

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    I can hardly believe the amount of interest that this post has generated, many thanks to all that have replied.

    What I have done is used the converta socket as I consider I've just changed an existing socket but the client does want an extra socket fitting so I have explained to her that I will need to install a stand-alone rcd to cover the whole circuit next to the consumer unit when I do that work.

    Thanks again to all,

    Dave.
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    Looks to me you`ve found the best workable solution under this set of circumstances.

    In an ideal world you`d RCD the whole circuit - extra cost and even more so if you find faults on the existing circuit or whatever is connected to it.

    If you`ve persuaded the customer to upgrade in the very near future and that is indeed all well and good.

    However, despite their intention today, it might not happen and they might get a bloke down the pub to do it.

    You might be called to justify your actions one day.

    It`s a judgement call, we all make them everyday in every walk of life.


    Example, I`ve rewired quite a few houses, the majority were occupied at the time, quite a few by 70, 80 even 90 year olds.

    Ideally strip out the old then rewire new.

    Often the existing would be pretty flimsy so disturbing it was a big no no.

    So I`d leave the existing running and do a complete new installation.

    On last day I`d disconnect the exisiting and power up the new.

    Phew! I could breathe again, their electrics is now "safe" whilst beforehand it was not.

    Do. I then strip out the old? Ideally yes, but often they do not want me to and I can`t persuade `em.

    Do I undertake the job in the first place or do I walk? I undertake it.

    I remember one time though I was dealing thru a person`s solicitor who had power of attorney.

    The existing was so bad it was pretty much lethal. Any banging on walls/lifting floorboards would increase the risks unacceptably.

    I was not prepared to risk that person.

    I insisted that I would only do it if the person moved out temporarily then I could strip out first then completely rewire.

    Even though I had evaluated that this particular person was not only old but of such a mental state that the trauma of temporary relocation would likely see them off.

    I passed the decision to the solicitor. Either leave them in a dangerous installation where they might just live out their days normally or move them temporary or permanently and perhaps kill `em off by moving.

    I walked, A rock and a hard place situation.

    Actually the solicitor agreed my dilema and was going to contact family and the local unsociable services people.

    I did hear, third hand, that the person was left in that situation and lived a further few years.

    Was that the right decision? NO, there was no right decision available, just alternative wrong decisions and you decide which wrong decision to make then you live with it.
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    Those of us who don’t get the NICEIC Connections Magazine can access it online through ISSUU.COM


    You will need a free account, then you will be able to access a huge variety of magazines.


    The article that Alcomax has detailed above is on page 37 of the current Autumn 2019 NICEIC Connections Magazine.


    Andy Betteridge

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