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Thought provoking PAT question!

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
One for today and probably longer!


Scene: Workshop with woodworking machinery (stationary equipment & fixed equipment).


Scenario: PAT guy "fails" some equipment for not having a means to stop rotation is less than 10 seconds.


Equipment being saws, pillar drill and a bench grinder.


Views?


Regards


BOD


  • 0
    First thoughts.


    1. Machinery standards.

    2. Wordworking Machine Regulations.

    3. Paul Skyrme. Top man in the country on machinery standards. That is what I did for a client who wanted to confirm compliance for a large wood circular saw which was newly installed.


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    perspicacious:

    One for today and probably longer!


    Scene: Workshop with woodworking machinery (stationary equipment & fixed equipment).


    Scenario: PAT guy "fails" some equipment for not having a means to stop rotation is less than 10 seconds.


    Equipment being saws, pillar drill and a bench grinder.


    Views?


    Regards


    BOD


    Just a bit of info for you all;



    1.2.4.

    Stopping

    1.2.4.1.


    Normal stop



    Machinery must be fitted with a control device whereby the machinery can be brought safely to a complete stop.



    Each workstation must be fitted with a control device to stop some or all of the functions of the machinery, depending on the existing hazards, so that the machinery is rendered safe.



    The machinery’s stop control must have priority over the start controls.



    Once the machinery or its hazardous functions have stopped, the energy supply to the actuators concerned must be cut off.



    1.2.4.2.


    Operational stop



    Where, for operational reasons, a stop control that does not cut off the energy supply to the actuators is required, the stop condition must be monitored and maintained.



    1.2.4.3.


    Emergency stop



    Machinery must be fitted with one or more emergency stop devices to enable actual or impending danger to be averted.



    The following exceptions apply:




    • machinery in which an emergency stop device would not lessen the risk, either because it would not reduce the stopping time or because it would not enable the special measures required to deal with the risk to be taken,




    • portable hand-held and/or hand-guided machinery.



    The device must:




    • have clearly identifiable, clearly visible and quickly accessible control devices,




    • stop the hazardous process as quickly as possible, without creating additional risks,




    • where necessary, trigger or permit the triggering of certain safeguard movements.



    Once active operation of the emergency stop device has ceased following a stop command, that command must be sustained by engagement of the emergency stop device until that engagement is specifically overridden; it must not be possible to engage the device without triggering a stop command; it must be possible to disengage the device only by an appropriate operation, and disengaging the device must not restart the machinery but only permit restarting.



    The emergency stop function must be available and operational at all times, regardless of the operating mode.



    Emergency stop devices must be a back-up to other safeguarding measures and not a substitute for them.





    Rob

  • 0
    This is specifically a PAT question. This inspector seems to be invoking a completely different set of regulations, which he may or may not be qualified to apply. I think this is a case where he certainly exceeds his PAT authority, and if he is unhappy should simply report his concerns to the HSE who will sort it out correctly. I suggests that the customer simply refuses to pay him. I am certain that the customer did not ask him to inspect against the machinery regulations, which is considerably more difficult than the average PAT inspector can cope with or is qualified to do. If it were me I would suggest to the customer that there may to be some problem, but it is nothing whatever to do with PAT! I don't think that pillar drills and bench grinders etc require brakes anyway, unless they are for young people in schools, who are never allowed to use bench grinders anyway. It is certain machines like radial drills and spindle moulders which need brakes, not everything, and most of these have virtually instant brakes, not 10 seconds by which time the operator would be mincemeat, but then that is probably beyond the Inspectors understanding too.
  • 0
    I'm with Dave on this one.


    It is likely that the saw is the only tool which may require a brake.

    HSE ACoP here
  • 0
    I wonder what that PAT tester would say about a wind turbine?  ?

    Clive
  • 0

    perspicacious:

    Equipment being saws, pillar drill and a bench grinder.




    Can someone advise what counts as a "Portable Appliance"? I can see a bench grinder potentially being portable, but a pillar drill? My view would be that if it can't be moved by a single person then it is not portable.

  • 0

    Alasdair Anderson:



    Can someone advise what counts as a "Portable Appliance"? I can see a bench grinder potentially being portable, but a pillar drill? My view would be that if it can't be moved by a single person then it is not portable.



    Good point, which is why the IET's CoP doesn't have "portable appliance" in the title ... but this raises another question.


    When does non-portable, or permanently-connected, equipment get inspected and tested? I'm sure it's out of scope for much fixed installation tests.

  • 0
    equally, if it is fed by a flex then it should be tested by someone, if not PAT, and not fixed wiring then who. I agree that machinary needs looking at by someone who knows what is actually needed. Equally, in the workshops here we do have DC braking on the pillar drills, but not the grinder.
  • 0

    gkenyon:




    Alasdair Anderson:



    Can someone advise what counts as a "Portable Appliance"? I can see a bench grinder potentially being portable, but a pillar drill? My view would be that if it can't be moved by a single person then it is not portable.



    Good point, which is why the IET's CoP doesn't have "portable appliance" in the title ... but this raises another question.


    When does non-portable, or permanently-connected, equipment get inspected and tested? I'm sure it's out of scope for much fixed installation tests.



    I would suggest that it is covered by the general requirements for maintenance. The machine itself certainly won't be part of an EICR.

  • 0
    Fig 1, page 14 of CoP "in-service I + T of electrical equipment" has a handy [ or other wise, depending on your point of view]  pictorial diagram of examples of equipment covered by the standard.


    It shows a pillar drill, grinder, compressor and an air con unit, for example.


    For sure the PAT person [ or EET person surely? ] has gone beyond the mission of the CoP. But client and contractor demarcation lines between Fixed Wiring , Electrical Equipment and Machinery Regs are, at best, blurred and open to differing miss-interpretations. Much equipment does end up in a black hole of nothing happening at all. Client wants a one size fits all, that has led to an unusual "PAT" approach of annual on everything or an annual approach on somethings, with the rest being missed.

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