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Help with installation / diagram

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
Hi,


I am after some help with a heated windows installation / diagram - grateful for any input.

Unfortunately, the company supplying the installion went bust and I have been left with a system that doesn't  work (incorrectly designed).

We had a local electrician do the first fix wiring based on the diagrams but he says what has been sent won't work in it's current state and he doesn't have the relevant expertise to adjust it.

We live in a rural area and electricians are not that common especially for something as complex as this.

Rather than post up the diagrams and go into too much detail initially, I just wanted to know if this is a place to ask for advice and if not could anyone point me in the right direction. e.g contact details for an electrical engineer.


Thanks.
Parents
  • Back to the heat loss Andy. You are right about possible new build with maximum insulation, but these are few and far between, it is impossible with timber frame (at least at reasonable cost) because the timber is much worse than the insulation between, and building cavity walls with large cavities has structural issues with the wall ties and the window openings (because these are less well insulated).


    Over to the temperature sensors, I think it is extremely unlikely these are PT100s, but you can tell by looking at what looks like thermostat controllers in your cabinet, they usually say the type of sensor to use, Measurement of the odd degree or two is quite difficult with these sensors, the point of platinum sensors is that they have a high melting point so are used for furnace control, and sometimes where extreme accuracy is needed but with a lot of complexity and specific calibration.  It could be that some type of standard thermocouples are expected but you need the information, again the electronics are usually marked as there are a number of options and types.


    I have not changed my view that these windows probably do not work, but an interesting test would be possible. Get a radiant heater and point it at the outside of a window. Can you detect any heat on the inside of the window, perhaps 150mm away? If there is any I suspect that there is no IR reflecting coating on the outside pane, so the heat loss will probably be of the order of 50%. You could also try the other way round, but you will probably be able to see the coating if you look from all angles very carefully, it usually shows as slightly greenish at some angles, but this look is not definitive as the heat test probably is. An IR thermometer would also not work well through this window if you have a clinical one available.


    Back to the electrics, you have 3 windows available presumably. Connect them in series and to the mains. See haw much heat comes from each side, your body is very sensitive to LW IR radiation and you will feel something. Again there should be NOTHING from the outside side of the window. It is not worth spending any money unless this is actually going to work properly, and you don't want to finance a failed experiment, particularly if the available cash is low.


    The world is a very difficult place nowadays, and there are all kinds of scams out there, and particularly in "low energy" and "Green" with all kinds of claims made. Whatever you do electric heating is expensive, as is loads of insulation and every other thing to increase the cost to make it practical. You will see more discussion on the IET Savoy place virtual club forum (under forums above) about the cost - benefit of electric everything. Properly costed many of the electric Britain claims are unafordable, particularly after the Corona Virus. I hope you are not attracted by solar panels where you live, they are virtually useless at such latitude because of the low sun angle and shorter less sunny days. The salesman will say anything to sell, but there is no comeback when you get less electricity than he says, the excuse being the  weather of course!
Reply
  • Back to the heat loss Andy. You are right about possible new build with maximum insulation, but these are few and far between, it is impossible with timber frame (at least at reasonable cost) because the timber is much worse than the insulation between, and building cavity walls with large cavities has structural issues with the wall ties and the window openings (because these are less well insulated).


    Over to the temperature sensors, I think it is extremely unlikely these are PT100s, but you can tell by looking at what looks like thermostat controllers in your cabinet, they usually say the type of sensor to use, Measurement of the odd degree or two is quite difficult with these sensors, the point of platinum sensors is that they have a high melting point so are used for furnace control, and sometimes where extreme accuracy is needed but with a lot of complexity and specific calibration.  It could be that some type of standard thermocouples are expected but you need the information, again the electronics are usually marked as there are a number of options and types.


    I have not changed my view that these windows probably do not work, but an interesting test would be possible. Get a radiant heater and point it at the outside of a window. Can you detect any heat on the inside of the window, perhaps 150mm away? If there is any I suspect that there is no IR reflecting coating on the outside pane, so the heat loss will probably be of the order of 50%. You could also try the other way round, but you will probably be able to see the coating if you look from all angles very carefully, it usually shows as slightly greenish at some angles, but this look is not definitive as the heat test probably is. An IR thermometer would also not work well through this window if you have a clinical one available.


    Back to the electrics, you have 3 windows available presumably. Connect them in series and to the mains. See haw much heat comes from each side, your body is very sensitive to LW IR radiation and you will feel something. Again there should be NOTHING from the outside side of the window. It is not worth spending any money unless this is actually going to work properly, and you don't want to finance a failed experiment, particularly if the available cash is low.


    The world is a very difficult place nowadays, and there are all kinds of scams out there, and particularly in "low energy" and "Green" with all kinds of claims made. Whatever you do electric heating is expensive, as is loads of insulation and every other thing to increase the cost to make it practical. You will see more discussion on the IET Savoy place virtual club forum (under forums above) about the cost - benefit of electric everything. Properly costed many of the electric Britain claims are unafordable, particularly after the Corona Virus. I hope you are not attracted by solar panels where you live, they are virtually useless at such latitude because of the low sun angle and shorter less sunny days. The salesman will say anything to sell, but there is no comeback when you get less electricity than he says, the excuse being the  weather of course!
Children
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