Slightly hypothetical question regarding qualifications

>signing off isolations and supervising people testing for dead, accepting repairs and new work purely because someone has said 'aye, its alright'


Side stepping your specific question, I would that thought it was not your signature that should be on the paperwork, but your responsibility 'to obtain' a signature from a qualified and therefore insured competent person ? (else what is the point of having a dog .... etc...) so it is their visible name (even if you have to co-sign to say you witnessed it)


But I'd say, yes, great that you want to know more about the basic expectations of the work to know if some one is as competent in practice as they are presenting themselves as, or being able to discuss alternative approaches or options than the one presented for any particular task or Risk Assessment.


At a very simple level

if you feel like bed time reading .. the 18th wiring regs are readily purchasable (a business expense) allowing reference to the regulations on-site by anyone - there are also some self-paced online training courses (google) also a business expense ?


Then there are some part entertainment (so not all dry study), part information YouTubes.

putting "electrician"  and/or "electrician training uk" into a YouTube search for example. will locate several people who present good work (and bad/why) , even some subtle gotchas and discuss methods and expectations of tests.

But of note are probably (but not exclusively) the "videos" of


GSH Electrical - A Training school Lecturer presenting support videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgtbE9w_d-u2AvPp3WBlPfQ


but also people like

David Savery Electrical Services, whose initial style maybe a bit 'coarse' but often discusses serious issues.

(SPD Surge protection, 'cheap' ECIR implications and training for, LED lighting installation issues etc.) 
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6pc8dcxZreeQxln00G_BIQ


John Ward, though more lately doing 'interesting' things, he does do specific regulation based topics
https://www.youtube.com/user/jjward/videos


Thomas Nagy - who documents his variety of home and small business installations and why he takes his choices.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6EJTy6p58ZW16PEljSn4Qw


But there are many others that provide information as well as entertainment, albeit that most if not all are more domestically oriented than industrial.

on permits, we co-sign, but internally, the organisation puts the emphasis on me as taking responsibility for making sure they have done it properly. I think I know when its been done properly, but can only back it up with a pie plate. 


I watch JW on youtube, but its always good to have some more evening viewing. I have the wiring regs, and do refer to it, but generally after I have questioned something. 


I hadn't thought of online courses, that would be good for me to complete at work, ill definitely have a look at that

There is a problem here though, and that is if there were an accident your employer would probably be prosecuted for failure to have qualified oversight. Certainly any work should be carried out should be signed by the electrician responsible, on the BS7671 forms, and whatever internal arrangements you have are not relevant then. Responsibility for getting the work done is yours, but it would be most unwise to sign the forms for any of the design, install, inspect and test sections. (see appendix 6, EIC). The design may be met by using a design package such as AMTEC, as you will probably have the knowledge and experience to deal with the serious difficulties, and it provides the now necessary "paper trail" for everything.


To get the qualifications which may be considered adequate for supervision is a fairly long process, and depends on a lot of experience as well as the bits of paper from C&G, but you might enjoy the process! You could do C&G 2391, which is inspection and test, but again having the qualification is rather different to having the experience to use it properly and you still are the duty holder (responsible person) which may not suit. However many companies do not have suitable staff in some positions, and rarely causes problems until there is an accident or reportable incident, and gets the HSE looking fairly hard. In your situation you may like to talk to them, they can be helpful and provide advice (although with their usual caveat that it is still your responsibility!).


Hope that helps

I dont sign anything to do with EICs or design or anything like that, its just our internal permit paperwork. Having read many accident reports over the years, the company often comes back as being responsible for failing to select a competent contractor. How do I know they are competent, if I don't understand what I'm checking them against? I rely on references, qualifications RAMS etc, but it would be nice to take it a bit further. 


I know some of our contractors at least use AMTEC, but we don't use it in house, as we don't have any qualified electricians directly employed. 


our auditors are satisfied by any EIC or MWC, not that I think they have any clue what they are looking at.

It could be that failure to employ competent contractors is sometimes a problem, but it is easily avoided by getting a contractor to provide a statement of his competence along with the quote. This is not a list of qualifications (if any) it would state the quality trail he has, particularly if he belongs to a competent body which provides yearly inspections, which checks this kind of thing for you. For commercial work you should not employ anyone with "Domestic Installer" or similar status, and you should get references to some other companies from whom you may enquire. Electrical contractors who have the necessary competent staff will be happy to provide this kind of information, and if they do not you just avoid them. It would be difficult to prove that a contractor with a suitable quality trail is not competent to employ, so you should be fairly safe. Take care, some scheme providers are better than others, and wide advertising or fame does not necessarily mean "best".

" you should not employ anyone with "Domestic Installer" or similar status "


you should not employ anyone with only "Domestic Installer" or similar status

I think the initial poster is looking for some kind of off-the-shelf 'Permit To Work' course. I'd suggest the Electricity At Work Act needs to be perused, especially if you are managing stuff like this.

I'm not looking for a permit to work course, and we select contractors the way Dave suggests, this is more about me expanding my knowledge on the actual work being done 


our H&S dept just say they have to have 18th edition, which I find isn't the only quality contractors need when working for me!


ask the same question about gas, and well, I still don't have a coherent answer

Health and Safety at Work Regulations.....Your H&S dept. should be able to answer your questions, after all, you can not be expected to know every technical aspect of outside contractors' work on your premises. Please see appendix 1.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hsc13.pdf


Z.

Then there are the Electricity at Work Regulations.....

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pUbns/priced/hsr25.pdf



Z.