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Obvious departures from the regulations at first glance at a new consumer unit.

Jaymack
I was asked to give an EICR on an domestic property which is to be placed on the market (part P applicable). I found that a builder as part of the other renovation work, (new doors, windows and kitchen etc.) has carried out the installation of a new metal consumer unit. On first opening this dual RCD unit, the 2 lighting circuits were on one R.C.D., and the 2 final ring circuits on the other R.C.D,, it was obvious also, that some wires to the new CB's were short and not lengthened, resulting in a bird's nest at the M.C.B.''s.


Plainly, a qualified electrician hadn't carried out the work. What would the readers as registered electricians have done ?. 1. Walk away. 2. Propose to have an E.I.C.R. carried out (UNSATISFACTORY), then carry out the rectification work and issue MWC's.3. Rectify the obvious departures, issue M.W.C.'s and then issue a SATISFACTORY E.I.C.R. 


Jaymack
  • 0
    The thinking behind the ratings go back into the mists of time, when all 13A sockets were expected to be singles, and the new 13A ring was replacing wiring in houses that previously may have had just 2 sockets, a 15A one in the kitchen, and a 5A one in the  living room.


    You may also be surprised to realize that for the purposes of the standard,  13A plugs and sockets are never tested together - plugs are tested with clamps fitted to the pins, and sockets are tested with a gauge fixture with a resistor to represent the fuse heating.
  • 0
    I coulde  be a devil and us a twin soket with a 2 way adaptor in each socket.
  • 0
    You could, and if you plugged in a 3 bar fire into each of the 4 sockets all 4 13A fuses would be within rating, so it would be a race between the 30A hot wire fuse, (or in a modern set up the 32A MCB that has replaced it), and the adaptors or wall sockets falling apart.

    Again , the unfused adaptors are rated at 13A total max, and there is a need for folk to be a bit sensible about not overloading them, as it is perfectly possible to do dangerous things with no fuse operating, including stacking up adaptors.


  • 0
    I would seriously like everyone to stop this effectively futile discussion. The rating of the sockets is irrelevant to anything you do, and if it is 13A for a double socket, what are you going to do about it? You could give a code 2 and insist they are all changed for singles, but this is very difficult and would become a major wall mending exercise which would incur rage from customers. What would be the outcome? Precisely nothing at all! I want to see pictures of the sockets which have been damaged sufficiently to be a serious fire risk, preferably in the next post! Unfortunately for certain proponents there are none, because even a washing machine and a kettle used together do not produce this problem. I have never met anyone putting 2 3kW fires in the same room, both without thermostats BTW because otherwise the furniture will probably catch fire before the socket! This discussion is nothing to do with complying with BS7671 either, you may use either single or twin sockets as convenient on any final circuit with a 32A CPD, and suitably sized cable. That's it, very simple. It does seem to me that many people need a book of instructions which says you must do A or B exactly like this or it is breaking the law. This is not the way BS7671 works, it assumes the users are not complete idiots, and UNDERSTAND what they are doing. It appears that a number do not. I expect someone will suggest that only a single socket may be fitted to a final circuit with a 10A CPD, because anything else could be "misused" by a customer.
  • 0
    This should be a walk in the park for a good electrician...


    How would you wire up a dual RCD consumer unit with the following circuits:


    Downstairs sockets (32A)

    Upstairs sockets (32A)

    Kitchen sockets (32A)

    Outside socket (16A)

    Inside lights (6A)

    Outside lights (6A)

    Cooker (32A)

    Central heating boiler (16A)


    Providing details of which circuit is protected by which RCD and the ordering of the MCBs.


    Also, if you were given two RCBOs (of any rating you desire) which two circuits would you use them for?

  • 0

    Arran Cameron:

    This should be a walk in the park for a good electrician...


    How would you wire up a dual RCD consumer unit with the following circuits:


    Downstairs sockets (32A)

    Upstairs sockets (32A)

    Kitchen sockets (32A)

    Outside socket (16A)

    Inside lights (6A)

    Outside lights (6A)

    Cooker (32A)

    Central heating boiler (16A)



     




    That’s a £1700 consumer unit if you use AFD from Screwfix. 


    Andy B.

  • 0

    davezawadi:

    I would seriously like everyone to stop this effectively futile discussion.



    This is a forum for electricians. Please stop pontificating and acting as a headmaster and a messiah. ? Such posts are beneficial to the learning process for all !.


    Jaymack
  • 0
    (Notwithstanding I am a frontender - back from the days that was all there was back then!).

    If kitchen is downstairs as it often is, then  kitchen and downstairs sockets on one RCD, upstairs sockets on the other, lights inside on one of them and lights outside on the other.Cooker with upstairs sockets. So far that`s 2 x 32A circuits on each RCD and 1 x 6A on each.Boiler (assuming a wet radiator bog standard central heating type not an electric boiler) on one RCD and outside sockets on other. I`d prefer 2 x 80A RCD rather than 63s. RCBOs if two then cooker and boiler. A cooker, even new, can be leaky. A boiler then RCBO would mitigate a fault on any other circuit causing boiler fail (you`re away on holiday and your pipes are frozen). Although if I had two more RCBOs then outside lights and outside socket - say damage causing water ingress. Of course I`d prefer inside lights to be split to two circuits so RCD split could be up sockets with down lights and vice versa. Breakers would be largest near RCD and inside lights at one end if possible (some consumer units have RCDs at opposing ends so the last MCBs end up in the middle nearest to each other though). My preference, as always, would be RCBOs each circuit. Usually allow the customer to conclude this option by gentle mention, therefore it becomes "their idea" not mine.
  • 0

    ebee:

    (Notwithstanding I am a frontender - back from the days that was all there was back then!).

    If kitchen is downstairs as it often is, then  kitchen and downstairs sockets on one RCD, upstairs sockets on the other, lights inside on one of them and lights outside on the other.Cooker with upstairs sockets. So far that`s 2 x 32A circuits on each RCD and 1 x 6A on each.Boiler (assuming a wet radiator bog standard central heating type not an electric boiler) on one RCD and outside sockets on other. I`d prefer 2 x 80A RCD rather than 63s. RCBOs if two then cooker and boiler. A cooker, even new, can be leaky. A boiler then RCBO would mitigate a fault on any other circuit causing boiler fail (you`re away on holiday and your pipes are frozen). Although if I had two more RCBOs then outside lights and outside socket - say damage causing water ingress. Of course I`d prefer inside lights to be split to two circuits so RCD split could be up sockets with down lights and vice versa. Breakers would be largest near RCD and inside lights at one end if possible (some consumer units have RCDs at opposing ends so the last MCBs end up in the middle nearest to each other though). My preference, as always, would be RCBOs each circuit. Usually allow the customer to conclude this option by gentle mention, therefore it becomes "their idea" not mine.




    This is a real house and an electrician wired the CU as follows:


    RCD 1

    Cooker (32A)

    Kitchen sockets (32A)

    Outside socket (16A)

    Outside lights (6A)


    RCD 2

    Upstairs sockets (32A)

    Downstairs sockets (32A)

    Boiler (16A)

    Inside lights (6A)


    The inside lights circuit was later moved to an RCBO.



     

  • 0
    That Jaymac is rather rude. I was simply pointing out that the subject under discussion is not about defects at all, it is about workmanship, and worrying about socket ratings is nothing to do with workmanship either. From the regulations, which number says that electricians should ignore BS1363, because they don't understand what it is for? The learning exercise then is to read the relevant regulations, understand them and possibly comment on what is found. It would undoubtedly be useful to some to say how the cables in the CU may be safely extended, warn about coloured crimps and solid core cables, and other similar workmanship items. BS1363 has served very well for many years, and many of the problems with plugs and sockets are because they do not fully comply. Components to BS1363 are all intended to work together without further design input, and as I said usually do so in an perfectly satisfactory manner.

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