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Voltage (Uo) for calculating permissible (Zs) earth loop impedance and disconnect times

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
Guys,


Ignoring BS7671:2018 appendix 3 for the purposes of simplifying this discussion.


Private installation, TNCS earthing system where the main transformers taps are set to give phase/phase voltage (U) 416Vac RMS on the secondary side. 


As ye are aware 416V/(√3) = 240Vac RMS line to earth voltage Uo.


I am also being told from an inspector that the permissible disconnection time in table BS7671:2018 41.1 is 0.4 seconds.


However when I look at table 41.1 it is stating that if Uo is 240Vac the permissible disconnection time is only 0.2 seconds.


I am being told by an inspector that we have to use 230Vac when performing permissible earth loop impedance calculations as per BS7671:2018 clause 411.4.4 Zs × Ia ≤ U0 × Cmin.


However if we perform the calculation using 230Vac will will get a reduced permissible Zs. This would seem to suggest to me that we could be failing Zs values that allow enough current to flow in the event of a fault to trip the fault protective device.


Is the inspector wrong ?


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  • geoffsd:

    You are missing the point.


    Cmin and/or Cmax values are only required to convert pre-calculated tables and only applicable for the voltage used in those table calculations.


    What I am saying is to not use those tables but do your own calculations using the appropriate actual voltage needed for your calculations - whether it be a minimum or maximum voltage depending on what is being considered.


     




    That's not the case. As a simple example, Tables 41.2 to 41.5 in BS 7671 are based on 230 V supplies with Cmin in accordance with ESQCR. They can't be used for a 240 V system unless the Cmin of that system just happens to be 0.91. With fixed tap changer, the real value of is likely to exceed 0.95, meaning you would need to as the OP says, those Tables lead to an under-estimate of the possible earth fault loop impedance - not necessarily a safety issue though.


    HOWEVER, it's not always the case that dropping to 230 V puts you o the "safe side" - for example, the calculations in A722.3 - use of 230 V in that case, as my previous post indicates, would mean you calculate:


    (a) for a 230 V single-phase supply, with a MD of 100 A: RA ev ≤ 70 × 230 × 1.1 ÷ (100 × (230 × 1.1 - 70 )) = 0.97 Ω


    (b) for a 240 V single-phase supply, with a MD of 100 A: RA ev ≤ 70 × 240 × 1.1 ÷ (100 × (240 × 1.1 - 70 )) = 0.95 Ω


    So in that particular case, you would be calculating 2 % above the safety margin using the wrong nominal voltage ... Granted in this particular case it's a moot point because the value is too low to be practicable, but if you were doing the calculation for three-phase it would be a different story. It's quite important for that calculation, as things change regarding the impact of a shock only a few V above 70 V, so there's not a lot of margin for error or indeed assumption.

Reply

  • geoffsd:

    You are missing the point.


    Cmin and/or Cmax values are only required to convert pre-calculated tables and only applicable for the voltage used in those table calculations.


    What I am saying is to not use those tables but do your own calculations using the appropriate actual voltage needed for your calculations - whether it be a minimum or maximum voltage depending on what is being considered.


     




    That's not the case. As a simple example, Tables 41.2 to 41.5 in BS 7671 are based on 230 V supplies with Cmin in accordance with ESQCR. They can't be used for a 240 V system unless the Cmin of that system just happens to be 0.91. With fixed tap changer, the real value of is likely to exceed 0.95, meaning you would need to as the OP says, those Tables lead to an under-estimate of the possible earth fault loop impedance - not necessarily a safety issue though.


    HOWEVER, it's not always the case that dropping to 230 V puts you o the "safe side" - for example, the calculations in A722.3 - use of 230 V in that case, as my previous post indicates, would mean you calculate:


    (a) for a 230 V single-phase supply, with a MD of 100 A: RA ev ≤ 70 × 230 × 1.1 ÷ (100 × (230 × 1.1 - 70 )) = 0.97 Ω


    (b) for a 240 V single-phase supply, with a MD of 100 A: RA ev ≤ 70 × 240 × 1.1 ÷ (100 × (240 × 1.1 - 70 )) = 0.95 Ω


    So in that particular case, you would be calculating 2 % above the safety margin using the wrong nominal voltage ... Granted in this particular case it's a moot point because the value is too low to be practicable, but if you were doing the calculation for three-phase it would be a different story. It's quite important for that calculation, as things change regarding the impact of a shock only a few V above 70 V, so there's not a lot of margin for error or indeed assumption.

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