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Can Zs at DB ever be less than the Zs of the feeding circuit?

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
I am reviewing an EICR recently issued for a building with several Distribution Boards feeding sub-Distribution Boards.

I have noted that in some instances, the figure recorded for 'Zs at this board' is significantly less than the Maximum Measured Zs for the circuit recorded on the feeding DB.

e.g. DB FF4 is recorded as being fed from DB FF1.  The feeding circuit to DB FF4 is recorded as having a Maximum measured Zs of 0.4 Ohm, but the 'Zs at this board' for FF4 is recorded as 0.05 Ohm - which is less than the 'Zs at this board' recorded for FF1 (0.08 Ohm) - and which, is in fact, in turn itself less than the 'Maximum measured Zs' for the circuit feeding it.  Can this be true or are there errors in the report?  I thought that cascaded Zs can only get larger due to the added impedance of the feeding circuits? This is not my primary area of expertise, but I am concerned that the EICR is being used to justify the upgrade of several circuits which have passed previous inspections with no problem (hope the resolution of the extracts from the EICR below are sufficient resolution to read)...

248ee514524cf5398885518b2007a96a-huge-image.png


b952bae4d3b1f32d959d675c6ede9a16-huge-image.png
05733e3016557d58306811936bac5e50-huge-image.png


Many thanks if anyone is able to confirm my concerns or otherwise put me straight...
Parents
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    1. No 'steeple', but there is a 'tower'.  Interested to know how that affects matters (I mean that genuinely - it's not intended to be a provocative question :-)

    It has not had any floors 'added' on top, but it did have an internal floor 'inserted' in the middle some 10 years ago, and that would have required considerable new wiring added at the time plus, I would guess, numerous structural steel support beams.
    c7b22a4cfeddc7224510226caf07a88a-original-image.png


    2. TNC-C-S is declared on the EICR;
    f72db1afc387566baa3d504d18b41a23-original-image.png


    3. You will see from the above that 'N/A' has been recorded for all Main Bonding.


    4. It is a self-contained building, and I believe the meters are all contained within the building.


    My main concern is regarding feeder circuits to DB GF2.(not my original question, but the reason for my trying to check other details on the report);

    The EICR records as follows;

    DB GF2 is supplied from 'DB MP1 Circuit No 2TP' via a 25mm^2 live conductor, 16mm^2 earth and MCCB rating 160A;
    eb38f6c43bfb7e54b4de5cfff36023ad-original-image.png


    DB MP1 circuit 2 records that GF2 is fed by 100A MCCB via 35mm^2 live conductor and 25mm^2 cpc;
    ab9c9b36e3ff83019589193442b64be7-original-image.png


    and his observations in the EICR state;
    8dff8333e6ed8b36fb3730fe04710d22-original-image.png

    and he has quoted to 'To supply and install new 25mm 3 Core Armoured cable from Main Electrical intake to

    Distribution Board GF2. Disconnect and cut out where possible redundant feed to GF2'.


    On being challenged that he has got his GF2's and GF3's mixed up, and what he says in his conclusions does not match what is recorded in his EICR, the inspecting contractor (who issued the EICR) is then saying;

    "Sorry there was an error on my observations.
     
    GF2 is fed from MP1 not GF1.
     
    GF2 is labelled in MP1 as “Boiler Panel” but it feeds GF2 which the feeds Boiler Panel.
     
    This is on a 32a MCB. GF3 is fed from a 62a MCB in GF2.
     
    We  are not in the business of making recommendations for cables that are not necessary, our proposal is to give you a safe and fully compliant electrical installation.
     
    Please confirm you still wish us to continue with these works."


    This still does not match what his EICR says, raises all sorts of questions regarding how accurate the EICR is, and whether it is safe to rely on what he is recommending.  I am thinking his EICR is just too scrambled and full of inconsistencies to be taken as credible.

    Or am I missing something?


    Many thanks for your interest - it is much appreciated.


Reply
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    1. No 'steeple', but there is a 'tower'.  Interested to know how that affects matters (I mean that genuinely - it's not intended to be a provocative question :-)

    It has not had any floors 'added' on top, but it did have an internal floor 'inserted' in the middle some 10 years ago, and that would have required considerable new wiring added at the time plus, I would guess, numerous structural steel support beams.
    c7b22a4cfeddc7224510226caf07a88a-original-image.png


    2. TNC-C-S is declared on the EICR;
    f72db1afc387566baa3d504d18b41a23-original-image.png


    3. You will see from the above that 'N/A' has been recorded for all Main Bonding.


    4. It is a self-contained building, and I believe the meters are all contained within the building.


    My main concern is regarding feeder circuits to DB GF2.(not my original question, but the reason for my trying to check other details on the report);

    The EICR records as follows;

    DB GF2 is supplied from 'DB MP1 Circuit No 2TP' via a 25mm^2 live conductor, 16mm^2 earth and MCCB rating 160A;
    eb38f6c43bfb7e54b4de5cfff36023ad-original-image.png


    DB MP1 circuit 2 records that GF2 is fed by 100A MCCB via 35mm^2 live conductor and 25mm^2 cpc;
    ab9c9b36e3ff83019589193442b64be7-original-image.png


    and his observations in the EICR state;
    8dff8333e6ed8b36fb3730fe04710d22-original-image.png

    and he has quoted to 'To supply and install new 25mm 3 Core Armoured cable from Main Electrical intake to

    Distribution Board GF2. Disconnect and cut out where possible redundant feed to GF2'.


    On being challenged that he has got his GF2's and GF3's mixed up, and what he says in his conclusions does not match what is recorded in his EICR, the inspecting contractor (who issued the EICR) is then saying;

    "Sorry there was an error on my observations.
     
    GF2 is fed from MP1 not GF1.
     
    GF2 is labelled in MP1 as “Boiler Panel” but it feeds GF2 which the feeds Boiler Panel.
     
    This is on a 32a MCB. GF3 is fed from a 62a MCB in GF2.
     
    We  are not in the business of making recommendations for cables that are not necessary, our proposal is to give you a safe and fully compliant electrical installation.
     
    Please confirm you still wish us to continue with these works."


    This still does not match what his EICR says, raises all sorts of questions regarding how accurate the EICR is, and whether it is safe to rely on what he is recommending.  I am thinking his EICR is just too scrambled and full of inconsistencies to be taken as credible.

    Or am I missing something?


    Many thanks for your interest - it is much appreciated.


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