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New EICR "unsatisfactory" - complete rewire required?!?

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
The lighting circuit has no CPC (earth), this is not uncommon in older houses. For that reason all light fittings are Class 2 i.e. plastic with no metal, and there is a clause in the tenancy agreement which forbids tampering with the light fittings (this is a house we own and rent out).


Previous EICRs did not even mention the lighting circuit because of the Class 2 fittings. I have just got a new EICR with an observation "lighting circuits have little or no earth" and classification code C1 ("Danger present, risk of injury, immediate remedial action required"). The overall assessment says "Unsatisfactory" with the comment "Needs updating to current regs". This can only be fixed by a complete rewire of the whole lighting circuit.


This is pointless, there are no earth connections in the plastic fittings.


Any thoughts? Many thanks.
  • 0
    JPCoetzee:
    Sparkingchip:

    One of the things that has to be recorded on an EICR is the estimated age of the installation.

    It says "20+" years but I think that is way off. I would say more likely 70s.




    Rubbish! What you have described are installation practices from the late 1950's.


  • 0
    JPCoetzee:
    Chris Pearson:
    JPCoetzee:

    Some of them have roughly-tacked together wooden back boxes and these should be metal (!).


    No!


    If you put in metal back boxes, you potentially have exposed conductive parts because of the screws unless the switches are of a type which conceal them.


    The wooden back boxes may be as rough as a badger's ars*, but so long as they are reasonably sound, they are unlikely to present a danger. If some of them are roughly tacked together, are others beautifully joined, or what? ?




    Heh, no. Some of them already have metal back boxes. I guess the recommendation for a metal back box rather than wooden is to make the whole assembly more structurally sound.


    I may put a shallow plastic surface box instead, if that can work. I will be using nylon screws everywhere.






    It all sounds rough as a badgers butt. Stop messing about with DIY electrical work in a tenanted home and get the whole lot replaced to current standards by a competent electrician. Remember you need certification to append to the EICR.


    Every time you reveal a bit more about the installation confirms that a Code of C2 is applicable.


    Though I would employ a different electrician to the one you started with.


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Previous EICRs did not even mention the lighting circuit because of the Class 2 fittings. I have just got a new EICR with an observation "lighting circuits have little or no earth" and classification code C1 ("Danger present, risk of injury, immediate remedial action required"). 


    I DID act on the report. The previous EICR said there was no CPC in the lighting circuit, so I changed all light fittings to Class 2.


    Now I'm confused by the events' timeline. It would appear that the report of 5 years ago should have been "unsatisfactory" but the compiler held off issuing it having advised of this, thus giving the owner chance to rectify what should have been issued ie "unsatisfactory" and then came back to issue a "satisfactory".


    As to the age of the lighting wiring, it could be from early 50's right up to 1965. Just a shame that the opportunity to rewire the lighting hadn't been taken during the many, no doubt, decorating and carpeting cosmetic exercises over the last 55+years. OR even when the consumer unit was replaced,,,,,,,,,, 


    Regards


    BOD
  • 0
    And, to state the obvious, if it was installed in the 1970’s it never complied with The Wiring Regulations.
  • 0
    There are 2 questions,

    1)it is it safe?

    and

    2)Is it legal in rented property after 2020 ?


    I still have a feeling that it is perfectly safe although it sounds pretty dated - wooden back boxes must make it the very early days of PVC, or an out of date electrician, it is something I associate with rubber cables and a general sense of disappointment.

      I say this is safe  as I think we have RCD cover on the circuits and no class 1 parts.


    So for the last however many inspections, it probably should have been flagged ups as  what we now call C3, namely - improvement recommended, not an immediate danger.


    But is it legal ? - tricky - especially now it has in effect been condemned.  It is almost worth asking for a second inspection, as if that had been a C3, I suspect this post would not have been written, and it would have stayed as it was until next time.


    As a complicating factor when dating installations, for some time after T and E was made with a CPC built in, as the common ceiling roses and so on had no where to put it, quite often the core just got cut back, so a meter test will show an open circuit, if the supply comes via an old fitting, but inspection in the CU and at the load end may show a CPC. And in a pre-internet era, changes to regs and common practice took far longer to reach the folk doing the job. I now know the chap I helped in the 1980s was several years behind in what the regs of the day would have required in terms of earthing,  live working RCDs, testing...


     



  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    perspicacious:

    It would appear that the report of 5 years ago should have been "unsatisfactory"


    I suspect you are right.



    perspicacious:

    Just a shame that the opportunity to rewire the lighting hadn't been taken during the many, no doubt, decorating and carpeting cosmetic exercises over the last 55+years. OR even when the consumer unit was replaced,,,,,,,,,,


    I agree. It will be done at the next change of tenancy.


     


  • 0
    mapj1:

    There are 2 questions,

    1)it is it safe?

    and

    2)Is it legal in rented property after 2020 ?


    My answers are (1) yes, as it stands; (2) yes, if it has a C3 code, no otherwise. ?


    I cannot help feeling that this case illustrates the reason why the 2020 Regulations were enacted - to improve the standard of electrical installations in privately rented property. If JPC were a 'rogue landlord' I don't suppose that he would have asked the question in here and I hope that it has been a worthwhile exercise even though there has been a range of opinions. (Nobody agrees with C1!)


  • 0
     The tester will have a field day when the 19thed comes out, Every installation wired up to the day before he will brand a C2, or worse. 



    Not really. The new law stipulates the 18th, not the latest version.














     


     


  • 0
    JPCoetzee:
    Sparkingchip:

    One of the things that has to be recorded on an EICR is the estimated age of the installation.

    It says "20+" years but I think that is way off. I would say more likely 70s.


    20+ years is anything before 2000 so 70s cannot be way off.


  • 0
    Whilst carrying out inspection and testing in a flat a week or so ago I was talking to the Inventory Clerk, socially distanced of course he was in the bathroom and I was in the kitchen on the other side of the hallway.


    As well as Inventories he provides other reports to landlords including Energy Performance Certificates and Legionella inspections.


    I enquired if he sometimes finds it helpful to be a bit vague when preparing reports, he laughed and rattled off some of the off pat phrases he includes in reports, a very nice selection of pretty meaningless comments that don’t really  answer a question,but sound like a considered reply.


    20 + years is one of those meaningless answers that is actually verging on being completely dishonest. A more accurate assessment of the age of the installation could easily add fifty years onto that.


    I did a report over the weekend, plastic consumer with all new colour cables in it, it wasn’t until I started opening up some fittings I estimated the age as fifty years. I could have easily wrote 10+ years on the report, but that would have been inaccurate to the point of being dishonest.


    At some point these reports are going to be used by landlords for remortgaging and selling properties, as well as for insurance and compliance purposes, so you need to make sure there’s nothing to come back and bite you on the a#se.


    If in doubt over estimate the age by a few years, don’t indicate or give the impression that it may only twenty or so years old when it may be over fifty years old, that is just plain stupidity on the part of the person who takes responsibility for issuing the report.


    Andy Betteridge

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