Landlord electrical safety certificate

First, the guidance is not part of the legislation (although it may of course influence the court if the legislation is ambiguous).


Second, Part 6 is rules about testing and inspection. Section 3(1)a of the regulations isn't about testing and inspection - it says that the installation must comply with BS7671:2018 at all times while let, irrespective of any inspecting and test that may be required by 3(1)b.


Can anyone demonstrate to me how (for example) black and red cabling without oversleeving is compliant with BS7671:2018?

I think you are getting out of hand Wally. 514.14.1 explicitly allows red and black to remain on previously installed cables, to earlier editions. Thus these do not require to be changed, although there should be a notice (no notice = C3). Provided red is live and black neutral I see no safety problem at all, as we all know the old colours.


Inspection to chapter 6, and therefore BS7671, are quite simple to follow given the correct qualifications and experience. If it inspects as safe, it matches BS7671 requirements for an electrical installation which is what the legislation requires. If it is a new installation it must exactly match, if existing then judgement of safety comes into play which is obviously not what you are attempting to apply to the CU for example. I have explained this quite clearly above. If you find a loose connection, for example, I would expect you to check all the connections everywhere for tightness, if you find a perished cable you check all the cables, if you see a broken accessory you check them all carefully etc. Thus the inspection becomes interactive with the problems detected. Finally, you measure and log the test results on an inspected installation. If the inspection is very unsatisfactory you might leave out the tests, it is just a waste of time and money for you and the client, as they will have to be done again once the problems are fixed.


Many EICRs are designed to find fault where the installation is actually quite safe, for example, cable colours, CU construction, old designs of sockets, and unnecessary bonding. This is a result of the inspector doing reparations, which I would like to see banned. Sometimes people do stupid things, for example, 2 single sockets on a spur next to one another, a C1. It is exactly the same as a double socket so why? If they are in different rooms then this is perhaps a C2 or even C3 as it was previously permitted. Sometimes cable ratings are questioned, particularly when under insulation, or such are actually 4mm on a ring and this is missed by the inspector. Updating the CU is a common requirement from EICRs, often without good reason, or adding RCD sockets on already RCD protected final circuits because they might possibly be used outdoors. Remember the client probably has no idea of the regulations, so is easily misled for fraudulent purposes.


A good installation is usually fairly quick to inspect, an older much-modified one rather more difficult and slower. Some DIY ones are a disaster area, not because they are necessarily unsafe or incorrect but because they have many bits hidden away as other works were carried out. Documentation is often sadly lacking.


None of the above is at all difficult to carry out properly, but it may take time. Good Inspectors know this, ask JP.

Wires merely have to be identified - except where there is no possibility of confusion.


Sorry, didn't see Dave's reply.

That is being over pedantic Chris, it simply means old colours are perfectly acceptable. The regulations are not intended to be over-interpreted, and you would be hard-pressed to find an installation with no Brown-Blue somewhere, say a light fitting, anyway there could be a bit under the floor you didn't see!

davezawadi (David Stone):

Inspection to chapter 6, and therefore BS7671, are quite simple to follow given the correct qualifications and experience. If it inspects as safe, it matches BS7671 requirements for an electrical installation which is what the legislation requires. If it is a new installation it must exactly match, if existing then judgement of safety comes into play which is obviously not what you are attempting to apply to the CU for example

As I keep trying to explain, part of the law does NOT CONCERN TESTING AND INSPECTION. The law isn't saying you must be compliant with chapter 6, it says that you must be compliant with all of BS7671. To quote:




That part of the law says nothing about it being safe or testing ok; it just says it must comply at all times with BS7671:2018. I cannot see any way in which (for example) a plastic consumer unit in an occupied rental can comply with 3(1)(a). If you see a way, please talk me through it in a similar way you would explain it to a judge.

OK Wally

Someone is attempting to sue me because I did not demand the CU be changed.

The only known reason why a CU would be dangerous (having been type tested), is if it contains loose connections. I checked every connection for correct torque (if you like to manufacturers instructions) and therefore it was not dangerous.


To prove it is dangerous you would have to prove any of:

1. I did not check all the terminals

2.Type testing does not identify faulty product design

3. Fires are not caused only by loose connections


Over to the other side....

I do wish that we could get away from CUs. Let's have a bit of sticky-backed mini-trunking on the ceiling please. ?


WallyW has given it a C3 and the local authority has served a remedial notice. The landlord has appealed to the FtT and counsel has commissioned an expert report from you. What will it say?


(Incidentally, I notice that the "auto saved" message has improved as has the size of the reply box. Well done Lisa and the gang!) ?

I think there may be some people talking at cross purposes here.  The landlord is the one responsible for ensuring that the property complies with BS7671:2018.  Nothing to do with the electrician.

The electrician is only responsible for producing some vague and ill-defined report, which may or my not be an EICR.  Even the government guidance doesn't say it has to be an EICR: "Landlords must obtain a report (usually an Electrical Installation Condition Report or EICR) from the person conducting the inspection and test which explains its outcomes and any investigative or remedial work required."