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Installation of a generator for a house.

Tomgunn
Hello all,


I'm moving house, (been here for over 42 years'!!), and one of the first items on my mind is installing an electrical generator.


SO; I guess there will be contactors / switch gear etc as I would like it to be 'automatic', (OR, maybe 'manual' too), changing from incoming to the generator.


a; What would be the best type of generator to purchase? Load wise? I'm not too worried as the bigger the load the bigger the           generator would need to be as long as I could run the basics within the house.


b; What switch gear would be appropriate?


I would't fancy the idea of switching tails around on a Henley block each time I needed the generator to be in use!!


Thanks, in advance!


regards... Tom
  • 0
    A "granny lead" with a 13A plug on the end will draw 2kW. A wall mounted charger will be 3.6 or (usually) 7.2kW.

    Although it's usually possible to persuade either the charge point or the vehicle to charge at a lower rate - there are some systems that roughly match the charge to what's available from (very variable) local PV generation.


      - Andy.
  • 0
    mapj1:

    I remember t'time when we didn't have any central heating, in't Yorkshire and a tin bath in Wales, haha... them were t'good ole days', (oh no they wasn't...  haha!!).


    Tha's a long way to walk holding your towel and the soap Tom. ?


    At my grandparents we may have had to light the fire to get water hot for the bath, but it was all in the same house. (Except the loo, that you had to go outside for.)

    Ice on the inside of the windows in winter..

    This sounds like the 4 Yorkshiremen  sketch


    Mike

    (born in Beverley, but so long away they think I'm a southerner if I go back.)

     


    Bi 'eck, me lad! T'water... t'water?? Didn't 'av anything as grand as t'water!! 'Ad to do we t'rain!! T'fire? We used to 'av t'use children t'eat t'ome!!


    "Ice?" Hahaha... I think I'll leave it there, haha!! ?


    WOW... I was born in't Beverley!! I say wot I like and I like wot I bloody well say!!


    Well, lot's to sift through... DNO or no DNO, that be the question?


    Thanks, to everyone, for their input... I'd best 'crack' on when I move!!


    Cheers and have as best a Christmas, as possible!!


    Regards...?


    Tom 



     


  • 0
    jcm:

    I was looking (out of interest) for what size of generator to charge a EV. Well not the small inverter generators you see in those German supermarkets you could put in the boot. Alas   you may need something like a wheeled portable generator / welding set  you could tow behind the car. However you could use red diesel to charge your EV car and  van. 

    Below is the information site I was looking at for the size needed to run your house (without EV charging point.

    generatoradvisor.com/.../

    This post is not as stupid as the Government doing away with  Petrol/Diesel /gas  . Did you ever see as many cars , lorries and vans on the road as there is today no one working just running around in cars (including myself)


    Tom a lot of the old hands have now left the forum , glad to see that you are still there.

    Regards , I am going for the jag , get yours to . Hopefully  be a happy Christmas next year

    then we can wish it on all who are left.

    Regards

    jcm.

     


    Hello JCM, 


    Looked at that website... very good! 


    Yes, lots have left, (haven't seen RnR recently... hope he's ok?? He used to call my 'Pyro-Tom', haha!!), and a great loss of information from the old days! 


    Me? I'm just an old sparky... fit intake rooms / TP&N / busbars / industrial etc etc... BUT, I look at what some, on here, put down with their calculations... haha, just give me a few bundles of galv conduit, a box of bessa boxes etc and I'm happy OH, don't forget the MICC!! 


    Had a few Jags, over the years', bought my last one, still have it, (estate 2.5 V6), 10 years' ago!!! 


    As Fleetwood Mac would say... "Oh well,(part 1)" I hope everyone is coping well! 


    I feel 'redundant' as who the hell needs to know about MICC, BE conduit and 2 plate systems, nowadays??? ?


    Thanks, (AGAIN), for the great posts!!!


    Tom... ?


  • 0
    Hi Tom
    We moved to the Scottish Highlands 28 years ago and one of my first purchases was a small 2.2kW Honda petrol generator. I worked for the police maintaining the radio communications network and all the mast sites had automatic changeover panels and diesel back generators.These were very reliable and literally a life saver since police fire  and eventually ambulance and mobile phone operators all relied on them. Sometimes these sites were on generator for days due to power outages.

    ​​​​​​I knew that power would not be as reliable as in Watford! This generator was sufficient for lights, fridge, freezer, TV etc. Within 3months of moving (summertime) we had a power outage for three days due I think to a swan shorting the 11kV power lines and damaging the distribution network. Since then was used on multiple occasions resulting from weather disruption events. To avoid having to haul out the camping grill for cooking I replaced it with a Hyundai 8kW silenced extra long runtime diesel generator. Silenced is relative but as we live in a very rural situation it's not an issue. With the exhaust extension I mitigate the noise to some degree and will eventually house it in a block work shelter. It comes with a remote start facility using a key fob control or via a hard wired switch but at present I start using the ignition key. I keep the starter battery topped up with a small solar panel. I use the TLC manual changeover contactor recommended in another post and installed separate RCD and earthing rod for shock protection.  It does feed the whole house but we are obviously careful not to overload when running on generator. The capacity is easily enough to power a kettle, fridge, freezer, lights and even one cooking ring. There is a Hyundai auto changeover control box available but it's probably not worth while unless there very good reasons as they cost almost as much as the generator.

    Hope that you get sorted OK.

  • 0
    Andrew Ince:

    Hi Tom
    We moved to the Scottish Highlands 28 years ago and one of my first purchases was a small 2.2kW Honda petrol generator. I worked for the police maintaining the radio communications network and all the mast sites had automatic changeover panels and diesel back generators.These were very reliable and literally a life saver since police fire  and eventually ambulance and mobile phone operators all relied on them. Sometimes these sites were on generator for days due to power outages.

    ​​​​​​I knew that power would not be as reliable as in Watford! This generator was sufficient for lights, fridge, freezer, TV etc. Within 3months of moving (summertime) we had a power outage for three days due I think to a swan shorting the 11kV power lines and damaging the distribution network. Since then was used on multiple occasions resulting from weather disruption events. To avoid having to haul out the camping grill for cooking I replaced it with a Hyundai 8kW silenced extra long runtime diesel generator. Silenced is relative but as we live in a very rural situation it's not an issue. With the exhaust extension I mitigate the noise to some degree and will eventually house it in a block work shelter. It comes with a remote start facility using a key fob control or via a hard wired switch but at present I start using the ignition key. I keep the starter battery topped up with a small solar panel. I use the TLC manual changeover contactor recommended in another post and installed separate RCD and earthing rod for shock protection.  It does feed the whole house but we are obviously careful not to overload when running on generator. The capacity is easily enough to power a kettle, fridge, freezer, lights and even one cooking ring. There is a Hyundai auto changeover control box available but it's probably not worth while unless there very good reasons as they cost almost as much as the generator.

    Hope that you get sorted OK.



    Hello Andrew,


    That's more great advice! I think, when I get another house, (was hoping to look at one today near Brighton), I would go for a 'manual' installation as if it's just a quick flick of the changeover switch and a key start I think... that'll do me I just need to move!!


    I've 'bookmarked' this thread so I can come back and re-read it all again!


    Thanks... Tom


  • 0
    A few other points to consider. Future proof the presumably buried cables between generator hut and house. Suggest as a minimum;

    1) Generator output cable, at least two sizes bigger than required for the load, in case you get a bigger generator.

    2) Mains supply into generator hut. Suggest a 32 amp circuit, for battery charger, engine block preheater, room lighting, and use of power tools or gardening equipment. 

    3) Spare, a 7 core small SWA for any future use, remote start ? intruder alarm ? external lighting switched from house ?


    Consider also future running costs.

    If an off peak tarrif is available, then consider only energising battery charger and engine heater during offpeak hours.

    I have previously advised against automatic start and automatic changeover as this adds cost and complexity, it also adds a 24/7 load of as much as 25 watts, a not entirely negligable ongoing cost for energy.
  • 0
    broadgage:

    A few other points to consider. Future proof the presumably buried cables between generator hut and house. Suggest as a minimum;

    1) Generator output cable, at least two sizes bigger than required for the load, in case you get a bigger generator.

    2) Mains supply into generator hut. Suggest a 32 amp circuit, for battery charger, engine block preheater, room lighting, and use of power tools or gardening equipment. 

    3) Spare, a 7 core small SWA for any future use, remote start ? intruder alarm ? external lighting switched from house ?


    Consider also future running costs.

    If an off peak tarrif is available, then consider only energising battery charger and engine heater during offpeak hours.

    I have previously advised against automatic start and automatic changeover as this adds cost and complexity, it also adds a 24/7 load of as much as 25 watts, a not entirely negligable ongoing cost for energy.


    Hello Broadgage,


    Thanks for the message / post!


    I was thinking about how to run the supply, etc. Initially I thought of 'tails' but, obviously that wouldn't work so SWA, I guess? GOOD point about a multiple cable, (MICC, I have lots with many cores), for two way switching, (lighting), remote control etc... good idea!!


    Off peak tarrif, didn't think of that, either. So, make a new plan... larger shed type / brick built outbuilding to store garden items and use the multicore for an alarm system, maybe??


    Thanks again! I've mentioned I've 'bookmarked' this post as there's too much to remember and thanks to everyone who has taken their time to mention things I hadn't thought of!!


    Good luck for 2021!!! 


    Regards...


    Tom


     


  • 0
    Yes, there is a lot to be said for a larger shed or hut, divided into two sections with a fire resisting internal wall. One side for generator, one side for garden tools and jerry cans of diesel.

    Dont protect the mains supply with an RCD, unless a TT supply makes this unavoidable. Fit a small consumer unit in the hut, with RCDs as needed.

    Engine heater.

    Battery charger.

    Room lights in generator hut and in garden store.

    A twin socket outlet in each half for power tools and garden equipment.

    Another useful addition is a room light in the generator hut that is powered from the starter battery. Use a low wattage 12 or 24 volt bulb, controlled by a time lag switch to avoid waste. Use an original style pneumatic time lag switch, not an electronic one which wont work on ELV DC.

    When burying the cables, consider burying a bare copper earth tape in the same trench, this will be dual purpose forming both an earth bond between house and hut, and also being bare will form a good earth electrode.




  • 0
    broadgage:

    Yes, there is a lot to be said for a larger shed or hut, divided into two sections with a fire resisting internal wall. One side for generator, one side for garden tools and jerry cans of diesel.

    Dont protect the mains supply with an RCD, unless a TT supply makes this unavoidable. Fit a small consumer unit in the hut, with RCDs as needed.

    Engine heater.

    Battery charger.

    Room lights in generator hut and in garden store.

    A twin socket outlet in each half for power tools and garden equipment.

    Another useful addition is a room light in the generator hut that is powered from the starter battery. Use a low wattage 12 or 24 volt bulb, controlled by a time lag switch to avoid waste. Use an original style pneumatic time lag switch, not an electronic one which wont work on ELV DC.

    When burying the cables, consider burying a bare copper earth tape in the same trench, this will be dual purpose forming both an earth bond between house and hut, and also being bare will form a good earth electrode.




     


    Hello Broadgage,


    Crickey!! I used to think that you couldn't extend a PME system from a house, to an outbuilding but... I had that wrong, for years'! 


    I was in CEF's, (in Lancashire), some weeks' ago I mentioned about the external earth rods... and the chap there said that there's a new way of doing this, if required. 


    When you say 'don't the main supply, with an RCD' I take it you mean the supply from the generator?


    Engine heater, well there's a thing! Hadn't thought of that, blimey!!


    My son mostly uses RCBO's everywhere so, as he has lot's, I could nick them off of him BUT, these have inbuilt RCD's so... maybe this isn't a good idea??? Mmmm?


    Again, lots of great information and I can only say thanks for taking the time to post them!!!!


    Regards... Tom


     


  • 0
    The only thing I'd add to Broadgage is that caravan suppliers do excellent little 12V LED lights.

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