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Who is the electrical installation designer?

With my County Councillor hat on (many of you are aware that besides being a retired Merchant Navy Officer and a former Civil Servant (RAF avionics) I am currently a County Councillor, in Wales - with their own Part P!) I have been asked for advice regarding a new electrical installation in a barn conversion.


It is not a re-wire, since there was no electrical installation there at all previously, but instead this is the complete electrical installation for a four bedroom holiday accommodation to a high standard.


Now the problem:  The switching for lighting is idiotic. By this I mean that 1) The outside lighting adjacent to doors and for patios and hot-tub area, is controlled by various switches in bedrooms often with the illuminated outside area not adjacent to the outside door or switch. Generally 2-gang switches with the other gang for the room itself. 2) Bedside lights have been configured so that at either side of each bed there is a 2-way switch to the other side of the bed which switches on the down lights from the ceiling for both sides of the bed. Again these switches are 2-gang and the other gang switches the main ceiling lights, which negates the purpose of having supposedly separate over-bed lighting. The owners wish was that each side of the bed controlled the ceiling down light for that side of the bed without any need or requirement to have this 2-way with the other side. 3) there are areas with steps where due to the local lighting location, you end up walking into darkness.


Being holiday accommodation, you are not there long enough to learn the idiosyncrasies of the switching arrangement, and the fear is that a holiday resident may be injured


It is fixable, but only by cutting through the new plaster and decoration in various locations in each room. But that is somewhat extreme and destructive for a brand new installation. Another electrician has estimated around £2,000 to fix, but that would entail some exposed wiring outside. 


Originally a quote was given for the work and in time the 1st fix was paid for at that stage.    Now the bill for 2nd fix has arrived and it is greater (just under £2,000 greater) than quoted. The customer has paid the NICEIC registered electrician the quotation price plus money for agreed extras (a couple of hundred). In response the electrician is threatening small claims court unless his inflated Invoice for some £1,000 more is paid by year end.


His excuse is that he was not given the architects plans showing what was required, in reality what was wanted was by discussion and with locations etc marked on the walls before wiring and plastering.


So as per my post title, who is the electrical installation designer?  Who is responsible for drawing up a diagram of what is wanted/required?  The property owner is not electrically qualified.


And of course, what should the person who contacted me (property owner) do?


Many thanks.


Clive




Parents
  • From what I can see this is a contractual matter.


    What exactly was the electrician asked to do? Was this in writing, it does not have to be in writing much much easier if it was?


    Did the electrician provide a written quotation to do the specified work?


    Was the extra work quoted for and was it agreed.? Was this in writing? Law of contract offer and acceptance before the work is done not post contract.


    Who did the design? Was it the electrician or somebody else? This is an NICEIC electrician so he/she is obliged as a condition of their membership to comply with BS 7671. BS 7671 requires installations to be designed see Regulation 132.1.  Was the electrician  following the design? Ask for the design information to be sent to the client, if CDM Regulations apply in Wales then this has to be made available. I have done court cases when I have been provided with an EIC with a person signing for design, I ask to see the design which of course is not provided and the person gets ask why they have not disclosed it in cross examination which is very entertaining to watch.


    Then it is a case of verify the work done complies with BS 7671 and the agreed work has been done for the agreed sums? If the agreed work has been done for the agreed price then the contractor has to be paid. If not refute the claim in writing, you can find standard letters on line. 


    If you are thinking of making a complaint to the NIEIC they will not be interested in any contractual matters or if litigation has started.
Reply
  • From what I can see this is a contractual matter.


    What exactly was the electrician asked to do? Was this in writing, it does not have to be in writing much much easier if it was?


    Did the electrician provide a written quotation to do the specified work?


    Was the extra work quoted for and was it agreed.? Was this in writing? Law of contract offer and acceptance before the work is done not post contract.


    Who did the design? Was it the electrician or somebody else? This is an NICEIC electrician so he/she is obliged as a condition of their membership to comply with BS 7671. BS 7671 requires installations to be designed see Regulation 132.1.  Was the electrician  following the design? Ask for the design information to be sent to the client, if CDM Regulations apply in Wales then this has to be made available. I have done court cases when I have been provided with an EIC with a person signing for design, I ask to see the design which of course is not provided and the person gets ask why they have not disclosed it in cross examination which is very entertaining to watch.


    Then it is a case of verify the work done complies with BS 7671 and the agreed work has been done for the agreed sums? If the agreed work has been done for the agreed price then the contractor has to be paid. If not refute the claim in writing, you can find standard letters on line. 


    If you are thinking of making a complaint to the NIEIC they will not be interested in any contractual matters or if litigation has started.
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