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Who is the electrical installation designer?

With my County Councillor hat on (many of you are aware that besides being a retired Merchant Navy Officer and a former Civil Servant (RAF avionics) I am currently a County Councillor, in Wales - with their own Part P!) I have been asked for advice regarding a new electrical installation in a barn conversion.

It is not a re-wire, since there was no electrical installation there at all previously, but instead this is the complete electrical installation for a four bedroom holiday accommodation to a high standard.

Now the problem: The switching for lighting is idiotic. By this I mean that 1) The outside lighting adjacent to doors and for patios and hot-tub area, is controlled by various switches in bedrooms often with the illuminated outside area not adjacent to the outside door or switch. Generally 2-gang switches with the other gang for the room itself. 2) Bedside lights have been configured so that at either side of each bed there is a 2-way switch to the other side of the bed which switches on the down lights from the ceiling for both sides of the bed. Again these switches are 2-gang and the other gang switches the main ceiling lights, which negates the purpose of having supposedly separate over-bed lighting. The owners wish was that each side of the bed controlled the ceiling down light for that side of the bed without any need or requirement to have this 2-way with the other side. 3) there are areas with steps where due to the local lighting location, you end up walking into darkness.

Being holiday accommodation, you are not there long enough to learn the idiosyncrasies of the switching arrangement, and the fear is that a holiday resident may be injured

It is fixable, but only by cutting through the new plaster and decoration in various locations in each room. But that is somewhat extreme and destructive for a brand new installation. Another electrician has estimated around £2,000 to fix, but that would entail some exposed wiring outside.

Originally a quote was given for the work and in time the 1st fix was paid for at that stage. Now the bill for 2nd fix has arrived and it is greater (just under £2,000 greater) than quoted. The customer has paid the NICEIC registered electrician the quotation price plus money for agreed extras (a couple of hundred). In response the electrician is threatening small claims court unless his inflated Invoice for some £1,000 more is paid by year end.

His excuse is that he was not given the architects plans showing what was required, in reality what was wanted was by discussion and with locations etc marked on the walls before wiring and plastering.

So as per my post title, who is the electrical installation designer? Who is responsible for drawing up a diagram of what is wanted/required? The property owner is not electrically qualified.

And of course, what should the person who contacted me (property owner) do?

Many thanks.

Clive

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0 lyledunn over 4 years ago

gkenyon:

Given that this work is for a holiday let, it is difficult to see how the client could be a "domestic client".

My understanding of the Regulations (which are not excessively long) is that the responsibilities of the Principal Designer are to ensure that the programme of work is safe and that work complies with the appropriate standards (including BS 7671). I don't see any statutory duty to ensure that the design does what the client wants it to do. That is a matter of contract.

I understood that may have been the case, so this bit of my diatribe applies:

Now, here's the rub for the poor electrician/contractor. If the works were more extensive than the electrical work, and they failed to ascertain who the Principal Contractor or Designer was, they were not legally entitled to start work under CDM Regulations.

So, in essence, the question always comes back to the electrical contractor / electrician, and I think the burden is on them unless they can demonstrate otherwise.

Basically, if the contractual arrangements were there, it should be an easy question to answer. If not, the electrical contractor should not have started work.

Absolutely Graham. Unfortunately it is clear that the basic requirements of the CDM Regs have not arrived in many parts of electrical installation land. Many contractors remain completely oblivious and there appears to be little in the way of trying to get the message across. I make a deliberate attempt to embrace CDM as a founding feature of all our projects, especially the smaller ones where Clients want to use Jimmy the builder and Billy the spark.
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0 lyledunn over 4 years ago

gkenyon:

Given that this work is for a holiday let, it is difficult to see how the client could be a "domestic client".

My understanding of the Regulations (which are not excessively long) is that the responsibilities of the Principal Designer are to ensure that the programme of work is safe and that work complies with the appropriate standards (including BS 7671). I don't see any statutory duty to ensure that the design does what the client wants it to do. That is a matter of contract.

I understood that may have been the case, so this bit of my diatribe applies:

Now, here's the rub for the poor electrician/contractor. If the works were more extensive than the electrical work, and they failed to ascertain who the Principal Contractor or Designer was, they were not legally entitled to start work under CDM Regulations.

So, in essence, the question always comes back to the electrical contractor / electrician, and I think the burden is on them unless they can demonstrate otherwise.

Basically, if the contractual arrangements were there, it should be an easy question to answer. If not, the electrical contractor should not have started work.

Absolutely Graham. Unfortunately it is clear that the basic requirements of the CDM Regs have not arrived in many parts of electrical installation land. Many contractors remain completely oblivious and there appears to be little in the way of trying to get the message across. I make a deliberate attempt to embrace CDM as a founding feature of all our projects, especially the smaller ones where Clients want to use Jimmy the builder and Billy the spark.
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Who is the electrical installation designer?

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