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Who is the electrical installation designer?

With my County Councillor hat on (many of you are aware that besides being a retired Merchant Navy Officer and a former Civil Servant (RAF avionics) I am currently a County Councillor, in Wales - with their own Part P!) I have been asked for advice regarding a new electrical installation in a barn conversion.


It is not a re-wire, since there was no electrical installation there at all previously, but instead this is the complete electrical installation for a four bedroom holiday accommodation to a high standard.


Now the problem:  The switching for lighting is idiotic. By this I mean that 1) The outside lighting adjacent to doors and for patios and hot-tub area, is controlled by various switches in bedrooms often with the illuminated outside area not adjacent to the outside door or switch. Generally 2-gang switches with the other gang for the room itself. 2) Bedside lights have been configured so that at either side of each bed there is a 2-way switch to the other side of the bed which switches on the down lights from the ceiling for both sides of the bed. Again these switches are 2-gang and the other gang switches the main ceiling lights, which negates the purpose of having supposedly separate over-bed lighting. The owners wish was that each side of the bed controlled the ceiling down light for that side of the bed without any need or requirement to have this 2-way with the other side. 3) there are areas with steps where due to the local lighting location, you end up walking into darkness.


Being holiday accommodation, you are not there long enough to learn the idiosyncrasies of the switching arrangement, and the fear is that a holiday resident may be injured


It is fixable, but only by cutting through the new plaster and decoration in various locations in each room. But that is somewhat extreme and destructive for a brand new installation. Another electrician has estimated around £2,000 to fix, but that would entail some exposed wiring outside. 


Originally a quote was given for the work and in time the 1st fix was paid for at that stage.    Now the bill for 2nd fix has arrived and it is greater (just under £2,000 greater) than quoted. The customer has paid the NICEIC registered electrician the quotation price plus money for agreed extras (a couple of hundred). In response the electrician is threatening small claims court unless his inflated Invoice for some £1,000 more is paid by year end.


His excuse is that he was not given the architects plans showing what was required, in reality what was wanted was by discussion and with locations etc marked on the walls before wiring and plastering.


So as per my post title, who is the electrical installation designer?  Who is responsible for drawing up a diagram of what is wanted/required?  The property owner is not electrically qualified.


And of course, what should the person who contacted me (property owner) do?


Many thanks.


Clive




  • Sparkingchip:

    Compliance with BS7671 is not an indication that an electrical installation is fit for purpose or meets the client expectations.


    I understand part 2 but not part one of  your statement. Would you be able to expand and explain why compliance with BS7671 means that an electrical installation is not necessarily fit for purpose?

    Legh


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    I read this as someone providing say a 16 A socket-outlet and the client has say an appliance rated at 32 A or even wiring a single-phase outlet when the client turns up with a three-phase machine............


    Both actually requested by client who then turns up with appliance/machine he subsequently bought as it was cheaper............


    Regards


    BOD


  • perspicacious:
    The architect has cut off some ground floor roof where the new will join the old.


    As I posted earlier, "artist's impression"!


    I know an architect who offers two levels of pricing:

    Basic to pass planning and BRegs

    Deluxe if you actually want to be able to actually build it..................


    BOD, you know too many architects! ?


  • Legh Richardson:
    Sparkingchip:

    Compliance with BS7671 is not an indication that an electrical installation is fit for purpose or meets the client expectations.


    I understand part 2 but not part one of  your statement. Would you be able to expand and explain why compliance with BS7671 means that an electrical installation is not necessarily fit for purpose?




    But what is fit for purpose? It comes into consumer legislation, but the problem in the OP goes a little further. If the client asked the electrician to switch the lights at the bed head and no more, they are fit for purpose; and one must assume, compliant.


  • I would guess this means that an installation meets BS7671 a.k.a it is safe for continued use.

    It might not have say a switching arrangement (example 4 way switching to give landing/hallway lighting ffrom a switch in or near each bedroom) or maybe sockets exactly where the client thinks best place for use .

    If the client has specified this before commencement then the end result is not fit for purpose for his intended use but is fit for purpose from a regs point of view as being safe and reliable.

    Many years ago I stopped being amazed where people wanted sockets and switches to be sited for use.


    Different discipline but same "madness" I installed an intruder alarm system for a family but the man of the household did not want the internal sounder  (bell output - horn siren) sounder to be a loud one, why? because it would disturb the neighbours! - I`m not talking of the modern use of speakers to serve as entry/exit sounders and also internal alarm sounder. Rather in full alarm there`s a loud sound inside and outside the property.

    Of course his wife and son  persuaded him that yes, in full alarm activation, a loud noise inside the house was equally as important as a loud noise outside the house.


    Sockets in corners of rooms behind furniture so "you can`t see them" is another one.

    Not the best useable place by any means.


  • Is there any performance requirements stated in BS7671 for domestic lighting lux levels or the positioning of switches, the height they should be on the wall is Building Regulations isn’t it?
  • On several occasions I have worked under the direction on interior designers, do you really think I could tell them what lighting should be installed and where?


    They are even less receptive to suggestions than architects.
  • Good news fellow forum members. Due to the positive feedback on the Eng.Tech webinars the IET are going to fund another series of free webinars for 2021.


    Even better news the first one will be on the subject of design. We only have a provisional date at the moment but I will post here the actual date when I know it.
  • One customer, a property developer, employed a feng shui consultant to advise on the design and layout of the six homes we were working on.


    I bet the IET won’t cover feng shui as part of the design process.
  • I think they may do that if that is a client requirement.