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Part P third party

KevinP
Re Part P Certification. Does a third party have to physically test an installation himself or is it sufficient to trust the test evidence of the electrician that did the work. I have been asked this by a neighbour and whilst I once knew the wiring regs I am no longer up to date (and not practicing). Thanks
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    perspicacious:

    Workshop/garage.


    I'd be looking for compliance with 522,6,2


    Which perhaps means galvanized conduit? Commercial premises, yes; domestic, not necessarily.


    Must we assume that everybody is careless? Can I trust my wife with the naked flames of a gas cooker? Will my coal fire burn the house down? ??


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    In terms of the shed, I'd not bother as presumably the paperclip inserter has to drill holes in the roof to do it (the probe in the IP test has a length for just this reason.)


    Edit I'm assuming a fairly low roofed garden shed to there is not a lot going on above the wiring apart from a clear run to the ceiling.


    However if it is a taller building they were some way down the wall, and vulnerable to falling paperclips, then glands, split blind rubber grommets,  or after the fact perhaps just a dob of mastic would be some ways to meet the letter of the requirements.Or a handy shelf above the offending boxes, to catch falling objects.


    Mike.
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    Glands, physical protection, premature collapse!


    I have been asked before now why I have put glands on the top surface of a CU. Sockets above the work benches and same height elsewhere, so no risk of collapsing over a fire-fighter. In any event, it's not as if the occupant will be sleeping in there if anything catches fire.


    We did think about applying silicone sealant, but it didn't seem very nice.


    Perfectionism has its place, but I do sometimes have to make an effort to accept a little less. The pass mark is not 100%!
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    Also remember that one or more people have to sign the EIC, declaring that they were were responsible for the design, construction, and/or I&T. If they sign when then they weren't actually responsible, they could find themselves in civil or even criminal hot water further down the line, especially if something goes wrong.
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    If the electrician signing it off was apprenticed to the person who actually did the work it could be embarrassing to spending a long time double checking it.
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    Chris Pearson:
    John Peckham:

    A 3rd Party Verifier has to be appointed before the work starts. They then have to inspect the 1st fix and point out any non-compliances for rectification.


    On completion they have to inspect and test the installation and issue a special certificate and notify the LA.


    It could hardly be otherwise given 641.1 Every installation shall, during erection and on completion before being put into service, be inspected and tested ... (my emphasis)


    Not something that I would want to do for a living!


    Now then, what would you do in this situation? T&E clipped direct to wooden battens in a workshop/garage. Everything on display and all done very neatly. Problem is that Mr Self-builder had the cables entering all the pattress boxes from above. Oval cable, square hole; just room for that paper clip to squeeze in the corners, so not, strictly IP4X. ? You or I would have brought the cables in from the sides or below; or used mini-trunking, or conduit (all options were discussed).




    IP4X is only one of the alternatives for a top surface. IPXXD is the other and is far less onerous than the former.


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    The mindset is"How do we do a job that "complies" with the law.


    1/ Use a registered competant person to take care of the whole thing - Yes good.   or

    2/ Use a third party verifier who complies with all of the rules - Ok   or

    3/ Get someone to sign it off either as their own or as third party verified even if all that is not quite true. no bad!

    4/ An Electrician or DIYer does it himself but follows correct LABC procedures - Ok


    I suspect no 3, in practice, happens a lot of times, naughty - or completely ignored as "it was in place before 2005" yer right!
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    Here we have an example of why the QS system and part P do not work. All the work where notifiable is carried out under the "Company" registration for part P, the install can be anyone (and often is). The QS notifies for part P as the company, yet the rules for anyone else are much more onerous! It should also be noted that the comeback on the QS is very rare in legal terms, it is usually a dispute about contract terms. So there is no "third party" inspection or test, just the installer who probably never sees the EIC. Good system eh?
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    Hence my comment about it would be fine if the installer was employed for the day by the company inspecting..

    There are so many certificates signed by folk who have not even visited the site for work done by almost anyone working for their company ,that to be honest one more makes no matter, but the original post did ask about how it was supposed to work.


    The real questions should be ' has the job been done well ?' as if it there are certificates, and  in use it gives no trouble, then  the papers (with M. Mouse as signatory perhaps) will be shuffled and filed, an no one will ever ask to see them again, and the system relies on that.

    M.

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    Agree Mike. As we are all fully aware (or should be by now), the schemes are just that, schemes.

    Not for enhanced safety, but for making money.

    The real world functions smoothly upon the premise that perfection is a laudible goal but the reality is that if it works and is not horrendously botched, then all will be well, even if the actual standard does not 100% comply to the letter of the wiring regs.

    A final note re:shed sockets, I always use 35mm dual entry PVC backboxes and M20 CTS glands for cable entry into accessories. I have seen too many fusty, cracked and broken backboxes full of cobwebs and other detritus to use anything other.

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