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Why Number ?

Why in our industry do we say 2 No or 2 number rather than just two?


2 No Sockets , 2 No Luminaires etc etc.


what`s wrong with just plain 2 or 4 or 99 or whatever?


I have worked in a couple of light engineering shops.

When making components they used the term "off".

2 off blue widgets, 5 off red widgets etc etc.


Firm A always recorded on their inspection history card the quantity in finished components.

Therefore example, a ring of metal was produced and at some stage it was cut into 12 components.

The entire history qty at each stage of operation was "12 off".

So 3 rings at start was 36 off for the entire process.


Firm B, however, recorded the quantity as 3 off until the split into segments then it became 36 off.


I witnessed a confusion and a great big polarised row when an inspection who worked for firm A left and then worked at firm B.

He followed the practice he had been taught (36 off at each stage from start to finish) .

In fact, as the Firm B in this particular job was producing components on behalf of Firm A then it also became a bit of a row between firms too.


Anyway, why 2 No or 2 off and not just plain old 2 ?


  • In my view it is to ensure that we know we are talking about a qty.


    The suffix No., X, off, tells us it is the number required rather than some part of a product number or size, especially when hand written by me.


    As to confusion about different practices I have always seen the number refer to the physical number of what ever size the item is so 3 X 1M becomes 30 X 10cm when cut into smaller bits.


    I can still remember at school, >60 years ago, my physics and maths teachers telling us and sometimes shouting at us "what units are you talking about? Elephants?"
  • I trained and qualified with the City and Guilds Construction Technicians Certificate, twice as there were two options and I did both, so I’m a C&G qualified Quantity Surveying and Land Surveying Technician.


    So as a QS Technician I would say you need to state what the unit is, you just cannot say “2” without knowing if that’s the number of items, linear metres or whatever.


    However to put this into context I know a painter who as an apprentice went into a decorators merchants and asked for a “box of polyfilla” not expecting them to hand him a box filled with packets of polyfilla, which is what he wanted. 


  • Probably "off" was originally "of", but got corrupted into "off" in conversation on a noisy machine shop floor. "I need one hundred of no:7 bearings."


    "What did you say?"


    "One hundred off".


    It is similar to the phonetic alphabet. For "five" we say "fife." (To ensure clarity).


    There are many corruptions in the English language. "Cut the muster" (divide the troops)  has wrongly been corrupted into "cut the mustard" for example.


    Z.
  • "There are many corruptions in the English language. "Cut the muster" (divide the troops)  has wrongly been corrupted into "cut the mustard" for example."


    Nice one Zoom
  • In the world of Kahki paint it gets more confusing - here the abbreviation no. means part number, so a Number 8 morse key is the part description - you then need to say so-and so many off.

    (to mean of and exactly that number  of - being more rigorous, rather like the maths folk using  iff  to indicate " if and only if" .)


    So you get Equipment, special purpose no 99, 23 off - for exactly 23 items each of which have the part no 99 stamped on them (that's not a real example, real numbers are much longer and easier to confuse.)

    But then the MOD have their own language - we get in to the world of materiel which they use to mean what most of us understood to be materials...

    Mike.
  • Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors Standard Method of Measurement 

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/SMM7-Standard-Method-Measurement-Building/dp/0854063609
  • Centimetres are an unit of measurement used in knitting patterns, it’s alright to measure a woolly jumper to the nearest 3/8” because they will shrink in the wash anyway.
  • I first came across 'so many "off"' in woodworking - where as kfh says it was to make clear it was a quantity rather part of the a size - especially when hand written - and was 'off' rather than 'of' as it originally indicated how many pieces had to be cut off the original piece (at least that's what I was told).

       - Andy.
  • I still don't understand and don't think Zoomup's - EDIT - Ebee's  question has been answered.


    Saying "Can I have 2 of part no. 99" is just normal speech and does not address the issue. Writing "2 off" would just be a spelling mistake - like the idiots who write "would of, should of" etc.


    As for the original question; writing "In the kitchen there are 2no. lights and 8no. sockets" is just pointless and clarifies nothing.
  • 2 13A sockets or 2No. 13A sockets?


    regards burn