Frustratingly crammed

This mess was a remedial action on the back of an EICR from the same firm. They gave a Code 2 for no RCD protection even though this is essentially an office situation. The client showed me the invoice which was £5K for the board change. You would think clients would have the wit to seek a second opinion before spending that sort of money!

Fraudulent again. Something really needs to be done.

Please send me data on such things, I am trying to do something


davezawadi at yahoo.co.uk

Some might argue that C2 is appropriate for sockets without RCD protection in a work environment. An RCD incomer might not have coped with all the earth leakage over 46 circuits.


46 RCBOs @ £30 each = £1380. Say £2k for materials. Even if it took 2 days, that's not a bad rate!

Hm Chris, Why is no having RCD protection in an office environment potentially dangerous? Lack of Earthing might be, damaged cables might be, but as the accident rate in this environment from electric shock is essentially zero unless someone does something deliberate, is C2 reasonable? I doubt it. This would be quite a hard one to argue, as there is probably no statistical difference between offices with RCDs and without. We do need a degree of reasonableness about regs changes, I wonder what other problems were identified? I would code it C3, but then I would not get any reparations work. The trouble is that there is little comeback for this kind of thing.

Davezawadi - I think you’re going to have to get the regs changed in order to do something about it; I too have argued - on here - ( and I’m assuming that this is along the lines of what you think - I don’t know, however, what you think)  that in a typical commercial office environment - the need for RCDs is rather limited. 


As the regs stand though there’s no way around the rcd requirement and absolutely no one that I know is prepared to sign off on a risk assessment that would appear to contravene the latest set of regulations - the guidance on how to satisfy the electricity at works regs. 


In a building that lacks rcd protection to the desks - ask any building manager of a large commercial office when the last time someone had an actual shock at their desk. The answer - is probably never. 


we all know there are some awful OLD commercial office properties out there - but rcd protection to their desks supply is the least of those properties concerns.


if you absolutely needed to have rcd protection - there’s no going back I think - a front end rcd is very poor design, but perhaps the cheapest way to do the job


Perhaps change the regs to limit the number of sockets or desks it can cover on a single rcd. 


I know of one site where they often have 20- 35 desks on a single front end RCBO desk supply circuit. 


how ever an RCD at each desk or every socket in the floor box is very expensive. 


our ever increasing need to prevent every conceivable danger - is good for us professionals bottom line - but I believe - rather unnecessary.

Well, our place has labs and admin offices with no RCD protection, and an RA that explains it is OK.

As things get rewired there will be RCBOs, not before. A few critical bits of kit have RCD plugs, and a few locations have RCD sockets.


Much  of the core wiring dates from about 1970 or so and will have another 50 years life at least.

Mike.

davezawadi (David Stone):

Hm Chris, Why is no having RCD protection in an office environment potentially dangerous?

Don't ask me - I am just going by my notes from my 2395 course! I don't see the rationale for treating a commercial environment differently from a domestic one save that EAWR 1989 apply. I think that the tutor's argument was that there must have been at least one EICR since RCDs were required and one cannot keep recommending improvement. That seems a very odd argument to me.


What does Napit's little black book say?


It does not matter what you or I think: the real question is whether or not there is a reasonable body of electricians who would code C2.

In my view, the requirement for RCD protection of socket outlets in offices IS reasonable.

A lot of my work has been maintaining existing installations in offices, and I have observed the many stupid things that are done.

Damaged extension leads, overloaded extension leads.

Two pin europlugs forced into UK socket outlets, no earth and potential damage to plug and to socket outlets.

Travel adaptors in general use, unfused.

Imported equipment that is unsafe in various ways.


It has been argued that 13 amp socket outlets incorporating RCD protection are not compliant. This in my view should be altered, and such outlets should become the norm in offices. Faults are thereby localised, usually to a single user.

In MOST office installs it is reasonable to omit RCD protection of the fixed wiring if this is SWA or underfloor busbar trunking. But the outlets do need RCD protection.