The EICR and competence. What are we going to do about the endless problems brought to the forum?

So, let’s get this clear.


We are supposed to inspect and test an electrical installation for an EICR including the smoke and heat alarms circuit and check the alarms are electrically safe, but not mention that the alarms are not fit for purpose?


I did an EICR for the purchasers of a house last year and the alarms expired twenty two years ago, of course I commented on the EICR that they needed to replace the alarms ASAP after purchasing the house.


Similarly I did an EICR for someone selling their house a couple of weeks ago and could not get the sunken and pillar lights on the patio to work, when I asked the client he said they had never worked in all the time they had lived in the house, over fifteen years, so I made an observation that the patio lights need repairing.


If there’s fixed equipment being sold with a house and you know it’s not functioning or fit for purpose you cannot ignore that and just say it is okay because it is electrically safe, it a CONDITION report.   


Though I do exclude electric gates from the reports with an observation that a report on the condition of the gate is required from a specialist contractor, along with stating appliances are not checked.

Apart from the fact that this forum is not private, this is pretty similar to the IET rules. I commented on the fire alarm because its functionality or wiring should not creep into BS7671 inspections, they have their own standard and inspection conditions, certificates, and risks to the inspector. I don't know of course if you have all this and the qualifications to go with it, but if you do you also know that the correct certificate is required. Your insurer will be interested to know that you install, and inspect fire alarm systems too. It could be a random comment on the EICR, information for the Landlord if he reads the EICR, but a separate warning letter would be much more effective. The fire alarm system is surely an appliance in flats or HMOs, therefore not covered by BS7671? The status of mains smoke alarms (building regulations) is not mentioned in BS7671, again I suggest they are appliances and therefore functionality is not for an EICR. Again the warning letter is probably the way to go.


I am going to reiterate why I am trying to collect data on poor EICRs. It is because they are becoming useless documents of zero value, Landlords are afraid of them, the legislation around rented properties is poorly defined and some in the trade are abusing the "power" they instill for repairs. The quality of many is very poor because the persons inspecting do not understand the regulations, and do not have the skills to apply them correctly. I consider this very serious and am therefore trying to collect the data necessary to do something about it. Some may not like the possibility of a change to the system, there really can only be one reason for that. Some "clubs" will not like a change because it will apply some controls to their actions, but how many of you really want controls like as an example, The Financial Conduct Authority, removed because it looks after the interests of consumers? I know all this will be an uphill struggle. I am happy for those who may disagree to comment and we can discuss it, many would read and find it interesting.

You had probably tell that one in private Chris! Community purchase is a good idea, but there is still a requirment to make a profit, to find staff etc, unless the whole lot is volunteers. They will need a first class Chef! Almost as important as someone who can keep good Real Ale!

I am with Sparkingchip on this one. If we as electricians do not report on life expired, broken or ill maintained smoke alarms who will? Just who are these householders or landlords that employ fire engineers to test smoke alarms in small properties such as 3 bed homes? It is our duty to report such defects. B.S. 7671 says in Chapter 65 that we should confirm that an installation is not damaged or deteriorated so as to impair safety. The installation includes fixed items of equipment such as mains/battery smoke alarms. I even just prod the test button of battery only smoke alarms when inspecting and testing.

I suggest that 651.2 (vi) applies. We need to report on installation defects that may give rise to danger.


Z.

Writing as a landlord as well as an engineer, I'm happy to have the fire alarms poked. It is actually the tenants responsibility to pay attention to the batteries and weekly testing (!), as they're on site. But usually they just remove the batteries. Now I use the 10 year batteries, but that's only recently been possible. But not an fail, please, as the letting agents will then demand an Installation Report from an electrician, sorry Electrician, that they changed the battery.

I agree Gideon. I am not objecting to Andy or Z poking the button and informing the Landlord, simply that this should not be on the EICR as loads of other hassles will certainly follow. Anything on the EICR itself which is not a positive "satisfactory" means that the property cannot be legally let, and if you start adding outside scope stuff, it confuses everyone completely. Maybe they should all know better, but agents, landlords, or tenants in my experience do not! If you note this problem, do you then write satisfactory, or tick that box? If you do you are not following your own principle, if you say "unsatisfactory" that is not strictly true, and you would find a code difficult, perhaps FI. I hope you see that a letter is the only way because anything else could be expensive to you, or the Landlord, who may attempt to recover the cost of not being able to rent from you. It is best to stick to the exact scope of a statutory inspection, which this has become.

I last idea, a box of batteries in the van is the best solution, all round. They are not expensive in bulk (about £1.00 Duracell professional), and then you can check that the alarm works too, although someone will now say that this is a repair. So it might be, a bit like tightening loose screws, which I do all the time! No complaints so far.

There you go! Does Tesla's new van (laughter) have 230v outlet?