Failed EICR

davezawadi (David Stone): 
 

 It is interesting that the QS must have “a level 3 qualification in inspection and test” but is silent on the Inspector. 

 

I don't read it that way David. Approved Contractor businesses have to “opt in” and confirm that their  “operatives undertaking Electrical Inspections will be competent** to do so

**Competence for Electrical Inspectors can be found later in this Guide"

It then defines competence in the boxes near the end, including the level 3 qualifications.

It doesn't mention QS qualifications at all, only the operatives. The QS of course must be qualified, to some extent, for the business to achieve AC status in the first place.

Sparkingchip: 
 

Question 1.

A potential customer asks for a quote to replace a consumer unit after you did an EICR for them, do you just copy the test results off the original EICR?

Question 2.

The same, but someone else did the EICR, do you copy their test results onto your EIC for the new consumer uni?

 

No.

Test all Zeds, Ins res (Global perhaps?) and borrowed N.

Gotta be the min .

I once worked on a job with an EICR done by a Nicky firm

Loadsa errors/ommisions on what they missed or invented defects.

Borrowed N was a bathroom fan wired to lighting circuit but timed overun (Permanent L) directly from the immersion heater was completely missed

OM, your point is not borne out by the EICRs I have been sent, many are very bad. How is this? What comeback is there if the Inspector does not have the necessary qualification? How about 2395 but NO proper experience? Why does the Inspector HAVE to use their book of codings, does that sound like experience to you? 

Chris, do you remember the 18th exam session with me? Did I spend a long time teaching how to use the index etc? Most of the questions are always about “how to find the answers” not about the fundamentals themselves. An “open book” exam is not really about the subject, it is about getting the qualification, which is not the same as a lecture or teaching class. If I set some questions as both open book (½ the class) and closed book for the others, what would be the result if I taught the subject matter, compared to teaching how to use the book?

davezawadi (David Stone): 
 

OM, your point is not borne out by the EICRs I have been sent, many are very bad. How is this? What comeback is there if the Inspector does not have the necessary qualification? How about 2395 but NO proper experience? Why does the Inspector HAVE to use their book of codings, does that sound like experience to you? 

 A couple of their links

Layout 1 (niceic.com)

15467MH-QS-Doc-A5-4pp-Web.pdf (niceic.com)

As for comeback, an FOI request might tell how many firms were sanctioned for not having qualifications/experience and the extent of those sanctions. But as we know, no qualifications are actually required to do EICRs, and you don't have to be a scheme member to do them.

I suppose the codebook is a place to start, a yardstick. And they do seem to be pushing adherence to it according to the assessor my last inspection. However if you can back up a non-conforming coding with reasons, using skill and judgement, i don't think you would incur sanctions.

Note i am a NICEIC Domestic installer, don't do EICRs but do do remedials.

You can't do an FOI request on a for-profit company, only a national or local government department.

I've just had a look at IET Guidance Note 3, Chapter 5 Forms and this is what it states.

This chapter provides guidance on completing the necessary schedules, certificates and reports associated with inspection and testing. Sample certificates and report, completed with typical entries, are provided together with sample test result schedules and sample inspection schedules, again completed with typical results.

The chapter also contains some notes on completion of the forms, although helpful information on this will also be gained by reading earlier chapters of this Guidance Note.

5.1 Initial verification (inspection and testing) forms

Following the initial verification of a new installation or of an addition or alteration to an existing installation, an Electrical Installation Certificate is required to be completed and issued together with inspection schedule(s) and test result schedule(s).

• Form 1 - Electrical Installation Certificate, EIC (three signatory version from Appendix 6 of BS 7671)

When an Electrical Installation Certificate is used, appropriate numbers of the following forms are required to accompany the Certificate:

• Form 2 - Schedule of Inspections for domestic and similar premises with up to 100 A supply or a more extensive schedule where necessary - (see below), and
• Form 3 - Generic Schedule of Test Results.

642.3 Form 2 is not suitable for inspection of installations rated at more than 100 A or that are more complex. For such installations the inspector will probably need to formulate their own inspection schedules. These should be based upon the requirements of Regulation 642.3 and the list of examples of items requiring inspection during initial verification, given in Appendix 6 of BS 7671.

For completeness, two samples of typical completed Form 3s (schedule of test results) are included, one being for a single-phase 1nstallat1on and the other for a three-phase installation.

5.2 Minor works

The complete set of forms for initial verification (inspection and testing) may not be appropriate for minor works.  When an addition to an electrical installation does not extend to the installation of a new circuit, the Minor Electrical Installation Work Certificate may be used. This one page certificate is intended for such work as the addition of a socket-outlet or lighting point to an existing circuit, or for a repair or modification to each circuit worked on.  Consequently, where three circuits are worked on, for example, three Minor Electrical Installation Work Certificates would have to be issued; or all of the work could be detailed on an Electrical Installation Certificate.

A Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate must not be used for the replacement of a consumer unit.

The Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate (Form 4) is included and is taken from Appendix 6 of BS 7671.  Notes on completion and guidance for recipients are provided with the form.

5.3 Periodic inspection and testing

The inspection and testing of an existing electrical installation is reported on using an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR), see form 5.  And, just like with an EIC, this document is issued with the appropriate number of Generic Schedule(s) of Test Results (Form 3).

For periodic inspections the Schedule of Inspections for initial verification i.e. form 2 should not be used, but the dedicated model suggested in BS 7671 as shown in form 6, may be used for inspections of domestic installations and installations up to 100A.  For larger and more complex installations the inspector will need to formulate his/ her own inspection schedules. These should be based on the requirements of Regulation 642.3 and the list of examples of items requiring inspection requiring inspection for an Electrical Installation Condition Reports given in Appendix 6 of BS 7671.

The suggestion above is that an EIC or one or more Minor Works forms should be used to document repairs / remedial works.   If it’s an EIC then entry for ‘extent of the installation covered by this certificate’ box on the form could document the nature and scope of the repairs, and the design area might also need to be completed.   It might be a lot of form filling to complete multiple minor works forms on larger installations.

If there were multiple repairs of certain types I'd personally be happy enough with a new EICR form which documented the particular circuits repaired or changed within the ‘extent and limitations of inspection and testing’ box on the form, and referring to the previous EICR form number, and gave the revised circuit information on included circuit schedules.  I've not studied all of the details on that and may be wrong but it's my thoughts.