This discussion is locked.
You cannot post a reply to this discussion. If you have a question start a new discussion

13A 1362 fuses and flex

Good evening everybody. 

I've been cogitating on the fusing factor of 1362 fuses (specifically 13A fuses)  and how this correlates with the protection of a 1.5mm2 flexible cable. As ever I am hoping you can shine a light!

The code of practice for the in service inspection and testing of equipment  Table 15.6 states that for flexes to be protected by the fuse in a BS1363 plug there is no limit to their length providing that their csa's are as in table 15.6 which states a minimum flex size of 1.25mm when using a 13A fuse. I am minded that it is quite common site to see a multi-gang extension lead on sale using 1.5mm2 flex where there is obviously potential for overload given the unknown nature of what would be plugged into them (even though there will be a warning not to intentionally do so).

From the Beama guide:

2.5 The BS1362 Fuse
The UK uses a fused plug which must be fitted with a BS 1362 fuse. For domestic
installations the use of the BS 1363 plug and socket system and the fitting of a BS 1362 fuse
into a plug is a legal requirement under the UK Plug and Socket Safety Regulations, 1995.
With a correctly fused BS 1363 plug, the flexible cable connected to equipment is always fully
protected against the effects of overload or small overcurrents as follows:
3A fuse protects 0.5mm² cords
5A (6A) fuse protects 0.75mm² cords
13A fuse protects 1.25mm2 cords
Protection against excessive damage by a short circuit is still achieved even if the smaller
cord sizes are inadvertently protected by a 13A fuse. In addition, it has been accepted in the
UK that some marginal damage to small flexible cords is tolerable under short circuit
conditions, for example where a 0.22mm² cord is used with a 13A BS 1362 fuse.

As far as I understand it the fusing factor of a 1362 fuse BS 1362 fuse is 1.9 (0.763) although in fairness I have seen lower fusing factors quoted (1.66?? which removes the particular problem I am wrestling with.)

Reference 4F3A a 1.5mm2 single phase AC flexible cable has a tabulated current carrying capacity of 16amps. 16x0.763 = 12.208 amps which is obviously less than the 13 amp rating of the fuse. 

I find it quite common to see 13A 1362 fuses inline on 32A cooker circuits protecting 1.5mm2 flexes to ovens. Is this deemed acceptable even though the oven isn't strictly speaking a fixed load (fan motor etc.)?

Is there another factor at play here which I am missing? Or do I just have the wrong fusing factor!

Thanks for your help in advance.

Parents
  • Right, my turn again.

    You have read in BS7671 and heard from your tutors that cable ratings and fuses or breakers are absolute, but they forgot (as BS7671 does too, probably to its shame) that all the “magic numbers” are for 24/7 continuous use. They do not take any account of short-term loads and suggest derating factors based on ambient temperatures of 30 degrees. Whilst this may be reasonable for a large industrial plant, it very rarely applies in domestic properties, and if it did you would not be able to afford it anyway!

    Looking at our twin socket as Mike did above, how many people would plug in 2 13A consumption appliances for 24/7? Realistically they might for a short period say 30 minutes to heat a cold room, but as the ambient is then well below 30 degrees the 2.5 mm cable would not get more than somewhat warm, and certainly not melt or catch fire! In fact, I will point out that almost all of you will NEVER have seen a domestic cable that is rather hot to touch, probably only at 50C. Fire cannot occur unless temperatures get to at least 250C, the temperature of a hot oven. Even if you leave the bread in here it will only char, but not burst into flames unless you put too much oil into the mix!

    Danger of damage comes very specifically, and this is a long relatively small overload, not for the odd hour, but weeks at a time. This time allows the cable to reach thermal equilibrium with the environment but is insufficient to open the CPD (fuse or breaker) because of its fusing factor. Breakers have lower “fusing factors” than fuses, so,in fact, provide more protection from this situation than fuses.

    All of this means that discussions (which we often have here) on the effects of overload are generally misplaced, and lead to erroneous conclusions. A 13A socket strip loaded to 20A will probably pop the plug fuse at some stage, not immediately but perhaps half an hour as the fuse local environment gets hot due to the fuse resistance, and poor ventilation inside the plug, but it will take much longer than this to raise a 1.5mm cable above the 70 degrees rating of the cable, and even if it gets to 80 degrees will not cause any great problem as PVC melts at around 140 degrees C. Even if melted it still cannot start a fire in solid materials, although if you drop cellulose thinner on it a fire might result! This would clearly be unwise. Actual melting is very likely to lead to a short circuit and immediate disconnection.

    The outcome of all this is to not worry about these minor domestic overload problems, as one can see from the normal use one sees, they rarely cause any trouble at all. Loose connections are the cause of problems, not overload of cables. 

    Your life should now be changed for the better because not understanding this subject is often the cause of worry. It is not well understood by the average electrician, or most college tutors I have met. If you want to look further you may get into the complex study of thermodynamics and more physics, but at least you should now see that there is much more to “overload” and that the TIME characteristic is very important indeed.

Reply
  • Right, my turn again.

    You have read in BS7671 and heard from your tutors that cable ratings and fuses or breakers are absolute, but they forgot (as BS7671 does too, probably to its shame) that all the “magic numbers” are for 24/7 continuous use. They do not take any account of short-term loads and suggest derating factors based on ambient temperatures of 30 degrees. Whilst this may be reasonable for a large industrial plant, it very rarely applies in domestic properties, and if it did you would not be able to afford it anyway!

    Looking at our twin socket as Mike did above, how many people would plug in 2 13A consumption appliances for 24/7? Realistically they might for a short period say 30 minutes to heat a cold room, but as the ambient is then well below 30 degrees the 2.5 mm cable would not get more than somewhat warm, and certainly not melt or catch fire! In fact, I will point out that almost all of you will NEVER have seen a domestic cable that is rather hot to touch, probably only at 50C. Fire cannot occur unless temperatures get to at least 250C, the temperature of a hot oven. Even if you leave the bread in here it will only char, but not burst into flames unless you put too much oil into the mix!

    Danger of damage comes very specifically, and this is a long relatively small overload, not for the odd hour, but weeks at a time. This time allows the cable to reach thermal equilibrium with the environment but is insufficient to open the CPD (fuse or breaker) because of its fusing factor. Breakers have lower “fusing factors” than fuses, so,in fact, provide more protection from this situation than fuses.

    All of this means that discussions (which we often have here) on the effects of overload are generally misplaced, and lead to erroneous conclusions. A 13A socket strip loaded to 20A will probably pop the plug fuse at some stage, not immediately but perhaps half an hour as the fuse local environment gets hot due to the fuse resistance, and poor ventilation inside the plug, but it will take much longer than this to raise a 1.5mm cable above the 70 degrees rating of the cable, and even if it gets to 80 degrees will not cause any great problem as PVC melts at around 140 degrees C. Even if melted it still cannot start a fire in solid materials, although if you drop cellulose thinner on it a fire might result! This would clearly be unwise. Actual melting is very likely to lead to a short circuit and immediate disconnection.

    The outcome of all this is to not worry about these minor domestic overload problems, as one can see from the normal use one sees, they rarely cause any trouble at all. Loose connections are the cause of problems, not overload of cables. 

    Your life should now be changed for the better because not understanding this subject is often the cause of worry. It is not well understood by the average electrician, or most college tutors I have met. If you want to look further you may get into the complex study of thermodynamics and more physics, but at least you should now see that there is much more to “overload” and that the TIME characteristic is very important indeed.

Children
No Data