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EICR for court

One aspect of our business is the pursuit of intoxicating liquor licences for clients. We provide a comprehensive service which also involves the collation of safety reports. Often the client will provide these documents as they are normally required for other reasons, fire safety, insurance etc. The documents are then presented as a bundle in the magistrates court. Scrutiny in court  is minimal but we are careful that they are from competent enterprises and properly reviewed. Like this one for a small restaurant in a large shopping centre. By the way, there is no alternative supply and no access to the main intake in the centre where the intake position is located.

  • What's the question?

  • I suspect its rhetorical.

    The report is lacking an editorial.

  • What's there looks more than a bit dubious to me...

    C3 for no AFDDs - even though the premises aren't of the kind listed in 421.1.7 (HRRB, HMO, student accommodation or Care home). The reg may recommend AFDDs for other situations - but it's not a non-compliance not to follow that. EICRs should only list 'damage, deterioration, defects dangerous conditions and non-compliances which may give rise to danger'.  Ditto for some of the others.

    "Main earth for gas mains" gives the impression that the author isn't familiar with modern wiring regs terminology (or possibly even concepts).

    514.14 (mixed colours notice requirement ) doesn't exist in the current regs (it might be an older EICR of course).

    Alternative supply notice is clearly bunkum if the installation has no alternative supply (as stated).

    Shouldn't the next inspection label be something they supplied?

    On the right hand checklist, I'm not sure why there are two outcome columns (the missing headings might help) with one being nothing but N/A, but N/A for both for 3.1.2 (Earthing conductor) seems rather unlikely. Section 4 seems to have an implausible number of passes - does the installation really include a non-conducting location and earth-free local equipotential bonding?

    All in all the whole thing seems rather implausible.

        - Andy.

  • The header of the column next to the item is just”comments”. So, yes AJ, we got a pass for a non-conducting location, earth-free equipotential bonding etc. The “N/A just means no comment made. 
    Ach, perhaps I am being unkind. Maybe the lad did a good enough inspection but isn’t really appropriately familiar with anything outside the commonly applied measures. Still, he ought not to be offering a service in periodic inspection. 
    Most licence applications here are handled by a barrister. I advised him of my reservations and left it with him as to whether it should be included in the bundle for court. He has decided to omit it! 

  • Most licence applications here are handled by a barrister.

    Eek! I don't think that I had any legal representation when I got a Justices' licence circa 1981. We had problems with the fire escape routes - no you cannot open doors into a fire escape route, no you cannot have a step down immediately after a fire escape door, but nothing was ever said about the electrics.

  • We have draconian licensing laws in NI. No new pub or off sales licences are issued so those holding an existing licence can sell it for around £120K. The wee corner grocers has no chance. Restaurants, cinemas, bowling alleys, distillers etc require a licence and have to make application through the courts but don’t need to buy one. Whatever the nature of the licence, the court must be satisfied, inter-ailia,that the premises are safe and suitable. That means, planning permission, building control and fire safety with the latter backed by certificates for safety services and a determination that the electrical installation is in satisfactory condition. 

  • Years ago I drew plans and did a planning application for a new restaurant we built on the back of our local pub along with preparing paperwork for the licence application. I asked the Fire Officer at the nearest fire station for a report, as you did back in those days, then got a letter from the Fire Officer at another station asking why I had put in a planning and licence application without asking for a report.

    The application went to the magistrates with two Fire Officers reports, which obviously they questioned the solicitor about, to be told both Fire Officers said it was on their patch and their crews would respond to a call out.

    One Fire Officer stated an additional fire extinguisher was required than the other one, so the magistrates just went with that one, the solicitor said it all raised a smile on the faces of those in court.

    Thinking about it, we had a debate at the time that there was actually a third fire station which was closer than the two that supplied the reports, the pub is literally on the county boundary and the closest fire station is actually in the next county which would only have confused things more.

  • As this isn't a question but more a 'point for discussion' I'll edit the post and recategorise it as a discussion.

    When posting in the forum, don't forget to select at the top whether your post is a question (that you're looking for help with or a specific answer to) or just a topic for discussion. Slight smile

  • In terms of value for money that is one sheet of C3 and quite a lot of that look a bit suspect, and another of N/A for some stuff I'd have expected to see being looked at - was the guy actually there doing electrics  for very long, or just inspecting the new bar or barmaid ?
    Mike.