Cable size of tails supplying a CU

I have a temporary CU board setup for rewires etc. (CU, isolator, 25mm tails, earth block, socket outlets) that I want to make smaller (and also want to know theses answers anyway).

If I made a new temporary CU board setup with a mains isolator to 4mm T&E tails, to single module 32A RCBO, to 4mm T&E final circuit cable, to a socket outlet or two, do you think the 4mm tails would be compliant?

Overload protection - The 4mm tails (and reduction in CCC) are protected from overload by the 32A RCBO and design current of 32A of the socket circuit.

Fault protection - Lets say most common main fuse in domestic is 100A (worst case) BS 1361 / BS 88-3 which has a max Zs of 0.27 ohms to achieve a 5 second disconnection time for a distribution circuit on a TN system (0.14 ohms for 0.4 seconds). So if the Zs is <0.27 it's OK.

Main (tails) earth size would need to be the same as the line conductor (4mm) to comply with table 54.7.

Or use the adiabatic equation (amusing a Zs of less than 0.27 ohms):

S =
√ I2 x t
/ k

Where:

Zs = 0.27 ohms
I (fault current) = 851A (230 / 0.27)
t = 1s (850A on BS 88-3 time current graph)
k = 115 (70* thermoplastic) or 143 if separate cable

√ 851 x 851 x 1 = 851
851 / 115 = 7.4mm2
or 851 / 143 = 5.9mm2 (if separate cable)

So 4mm supply tails with 4mm earth using table 54.7 would be adequate? Am I missing anything? Thanks.

Parents
  • The above discussion almost but not quite addresses my own question. What is the minimum CSA I need if a sub-main of length < 1m is to be protected by my existing cut-out fuse - I assume to BS88 - and confirmed by the DNO to be rated at 80A?

    Looking at the gG tables above, the 5s disconnection time for this fuse is achieved with a current of 430A. Presumably that is worst case, various manufacturer's data gives other results e.g. mersen give 300A.

    The graphical method, looking at where the adiabatic curves cross the fuse characteristics, then shows for this "time to blow" I need somewhat under 10 sq mm conductors. Is that correct?

    Also, can someone please explain where the figure for Zs of 0.27 came from in the original calcs above? The tables I have found e.g. these https://www.dungannonelectrical.co.uk/dun1-shop/pdf/loop-impedance.pdf show for 5 seconds a value of 0.425 ohms for the original 100A fuse and 0.525 ohms for my 80A case leading to rather different results. And why is a figure of 1 second then chosen (seemingly arbitrarily) to put in the adiabatic equation?

    Hoping someone can enlighten me, I am more at home with electronics!

  • I have this table for maximum measured values (80%) of maximum permitted. BS 1361 or 1362, 100 Amp, 5 seconds 0.27 Ohms

  • Thanks, I wonder why it is not the same.

    Meanwhile I may have found the answer to my original Q. My copy of the 17th Ed OSG has in Table 2B on p101 the smallest protective conductor allowed off an 80A fuse to BS88 is 4.0 sq mm, so the smallest permitted T&E cable is 6.0.

    Also the max allowable Zs is 0.22 ohms which I think is OK. By observation the voltage dip on a 50A load is <2.5V which is about 50 mohm, and the length of cable involved is negligible. (This squares with the supply cable which is about 20m of 35 sq mm from the street, so 25 mohm according to Table 6E2.)

    220 mohm worst-case would give a PSCC over 1000A so a time to blow of 0.2 secs, and the graphical method shows this is actually OK for 4.0 sq mm cable as well as 6.0. And the real PSCC looks as though it might be >4x this w/c figure so off the graph.

    Now to get rid of the column of "helpful" IET drivel which has inserted itself to the right of the discussion screen!

  • Hi Chris, I’ve never come across a 6mm T&E cable with a 4mm cpc as a standard cable. 6mm T&E cable has a 2.5mm cpc, and a 10mm T&E cable has a 4mm cpc.  

  • My mistake, I was thinking it was one size smaller. Best answer is probably 4.0 singles in mini-trunking then as easier to terminate in tight corners than 10.0 T&E.

    Ooh, I see TLC also sell 4.0 in NYY-J as well as triple flex to 3183Y, either might do even better.

    Do you think the rest of the logic is OK?

  • If the load current is 50 A, then according to Table 4D1A for reference method B, the minimum conductor size is 10 mm2. However, you also need to comply with regulation 433.1.1, which states the conditions for the overload protection device and the conductor ratings. Alternatively, you may not need an overload protection device if the load or supply characteristics prevent overload currents, as per regulation 433.3.1 (ii)

  • Proposed load is a heat pump drawing 23.3A abs max so should be fine on a 32A Type C RCBO, which will also provide earth leakage protection for the load as well as overload protection for the cable.

    Short circuit protection is the remaining issue I wanted to sort out, it seems the 80A cut-out will be sufficient provided all 3 cores of the sub-main are 4.0.

    Thanks for yr help.

Reply
  • Proposed load is a heat pump drawing 23.3A abs max so should be fine on a 32A Type C RCBO, which will also provide earth leakage protection for the load as well as overload protection for the cable.

    Short circuit protection is the remaining issue I wanted to sort out, it seems the 80A cut-out will be sufficient provided all 3 cores of the sub-main are 4.0.

    Thanks for yr help.

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