Hear hear.

I am in much the same position.

What I find quite frustrating is that it is not always clear whether a given standard actually has the data / specification / definition (etc) one is looking for before you’ve forked out for it.

Some documents  are obviously worth buying either generally or for a specific project. But as a small consultancy investigative or speculative research is potentially an expensive endeavour and therefore rare, despite the potential benefits. There used to be a library in the next county that had a BSI Online subscription but that’s now been stopped, and while I keep a wishlist of standards to look at in case I get enough spare time on a trip to London to swing by Savoy Place, there’s a large amount of difference between a quick flick through a document at my desk to find support or guidance on a particular question to dedicating a day to journeying to London to look something up.

I for one think I’d spend more on standards were each one cheaper and less of a gamble.

Personally I would go further and suggest that it would be a good move for the UK government to enable easy and free access to British Standards for citizens. BSI group turned over <£700M in 2022 and around half of that was “cost of sales”, so it needn’t be a massive burden yet the benefits in terms of improved quality / avoided costs and also competitiveness would be tangible.

Sone local councils’ libraries appear to already do this so I don’t think it’s too much to ask! Quick Googling suggests Libraries NI managed for a brief spell after the Royal Society of Ulster Architects lobbied for it… perhaps the IET could push for all of us?

Hear hear.

I am in much the same position.

What I find quite frustrating is that it is not always clear whether a given standard actually has the data / specification / definition (etc) one is looking for before you’ve forked out for it.

Some documents  are obviously worth buying either generally or for a specific project. But as a small consultancy investigative or speculative research is potentially an expensive endeavour and therefore rare, despite the potential benefits. There used to be a library in the next county that had a BSI Online subscription but that’s now been stopped, and while I keep a wishlist of standards to look at in case I get enough spare time on a trip to London to swing by Savoy Place, there’s a large amount of difference between a quick flick through a document at my desk to find support or guidance on a particular question to dedicating a day to journeying to London to look something up.

I for one think I’d spend more on standards were each one cheaper and less of a gamble.

Personally I would go further and suggest that it would be a good move for the UK government to enable easy and free access to British Standards for citizens. BSI group turned over <£700M in 2022 and around half of that was “cost of sales”, so it needn’t be a massive burden yet the benefits in terms of improved quality / avoided costs and also competitiveness would be tangible.

Sone local councils’ libraries appear to already do this so I don’t think it’s too much to ask! Quick Googling suggests Libraries NI managed for a brief spell after the Royal Society of Ulster Architects lobbied for it… perhaps the IET could push for all of us?

It might be worth seeing how the Incorporated by Reference push with the American National Standards Institute develops as a view to the art of the possible.

The argument that has driven this is that standards that are referred to in law (currently only US Federal law, not state) are supposed to be readily accessible to all  citizens affected by them (you cannot have concealed laws.) so

"These standards incorporated by the U.S. government in rulemakings are offered at no cost in “read only” format and are presented for online reading. There are no print or download options."

https://ibr.ansi.org/Standards/Default.aspx There is a special viewing software to download, that is currently not Linux compatible, so you do have to buy a copy of a well known operating system, but that is America after all.

It is quite a  new thing, and it will be interesting to see if it either improves compliance to regulations in the US or bankrupts ANSI, both of which outcomes have been loudly predicted.

On the other hand ETSI has been publishing open communication standards for years.

Mike.

Jam said:

perhaps the IET could push for all of us?

The IET already provides access to British Standards in the Library at Savoy Place: www.theiet.org/.../

I think the costs for "remote access" are prohibitive, and that is why some county library services appear to have dropped it.

gkenyon said:

The IET already provides access to British Standards in the Library at Savoy Place: www.theiet.org/.../

Which isn't a lot of use unless you happen to live or work in London.

IET Did have the "Teacher" Building in Glasgow which I oeften used for meeting rooms etc etc when I wanted to meet clients etc, could also access standards there. But Hey Ho I.ET Shut the building with no consultation with membership in Scotland as far as my correspondance and member news told me.

Just a email one day saying building being sold on due to costs............. so even if I did wish to access a standard big travel cost diffrence between Glasgow and London. I agree what a few others have said working for myself, costs of standards to purchase are very expensive especially just to check something and make sure my designadvice is appropriate.

Costs of memberships for a sole trader thru other bodies including BSI membership are helluva expensive per annum, given some years might not need to check out a standard.

Totally get, it costs money to produce the standards etc in the first place, but think could be better way of accessing them, also understand the security around unauthorised copies doing the rounds on the interweb.

Cheers GTB.

Jam said:

Personally I would go further and suggest that it would be a good move for the UK government to enable easy and free access to British Standards for citizens.

One of the objects and purposes of the BSI, expressed in its Royal Charter, is to, "... promote the general adoption of British and international standards ...". It is difficult to see how that can be achieved when the standards cost so much. If you manufacture garden forks, and want to sell them on the basis of quality, the cost per fork is low, and achieving the Standard should help sales, so all well and good.

By contrast, a consumer might want to know the particular advantages of having a BS 3388 garden fork, but how can that be achieved unless the Standard is readily available?

I find it interesting that BS 7671 is relatively cheap. One reason might be to ensure that electricians work to the Standard.

The difficulty is that this is the political (relatively small p) issue as to whether this service should be funded through taxes or directly at the point of use (as it is now).

Personally I totally agree with the points above - even though at work we subscribe to a standards service it doesn't have all standards on it, and I relatively regularly have to buy a standard only to e.g find from the scope that actually it's not applicable, and although the theory is that I should still pass that cost directly on to the client I wouldn't have the cheek to do so! (Unless of course the client themselves asked me to look at it.) But given the UK political view since 1979 that all services should be privatised if at all possible it would need a lot of pressure, and a really, really strong argument that there's a major risk to the country, for standards to be made freely available. But that's not to say it's not worth trying, just don't expect it to be easy.