Should BS7671 take up the slack for new technologies?

Hi All, 

Here are a couple of photos of panels that are now appearing in homes with some regularity. 

Where they are actually signed off, that is invariably being done with an EIC’s and the installations notified under Part P in the usual manner.

I have yet to speak to a ‘smart home installer’ or Electrician that sees much of an issue here. 

One of the manufacturers of the components in these two images actively ‘trains’ installers that this is acceptable and when challenged state ‘it is not their remit to tell Electricians how to do their job’

Given that BS7671 is not a product standard how could it be adapted to fit emerging technologies and installations?

Alternatively, how do we ensure Electricians are not wittingly or unwittingly placing themselves at risk from such installations. 

I spoke to both NICEIC & NAPIT Technical on such installations in respect of the requirements for their Approved contractors / Domestic installers etc etc. 

Neither one had any clue what I was talking about. 

Thanks 

Martyn

  • I haven't either.

    I imagine that these are not 2-up 2-down homes. What are we looking at please? What is their purpose?

  • They are automation control panels. 


    They control everything in the house/building. Think BMS.

    I see them in 1 bed flats to £20m mansions.

    Generally speaking they run: 

    Power distribution 

    Lighting,  switched, dimmed, RGB, scene based.

    Heating, Boilers, Heat pumps, Solar Thermal Radiator/UFH Manifolds Wood burners etc etc

    Ventilation, MVHR etc

    Security, Access control, Gates, Garage doors, ccctv 

    Solar Pv, Battery and grid management  Auto transfer etc

    You get the idea  a fully integrated system where every system knows the status of every other system. 

  • I am a dinosaur. My gates (what is left of them) are timber things on hinges as are my garage doors, front door, back door, etc. We have a fan in the kitchen, otherwise ventilation consists of opening a window.

    Back to the question, I think that the role of the domestic sparks is to supply power safely.

    It brings me back to the question of who is responsible for a standard central heating control box. Does the electrician's role stop at the FCU, or is he (or she) responsible for linking up all the valves and boiler, etc?

  • Ha, You’re not extinct yet sir! 

    Is a box of wago’s / terminal strip for the heating really much different than say a 6 gang 2 way set of light switches? 

    Heating is generally just a series of 1 way switches to a desired outcome all connected to standard equipment. 

  • Not sure which aspect we are taking issue with here myself - is this lot behind a cabinet door or just in a corridor ? Yes it is busy looking, but not unreasonably so given a single wire out to each independently switched load? I presume it is a mix of LV for the loads and ELV for the controls ...

    This is probably the CU of the future, or already is in the houses of the enthusiast early adopter.

    Mike.

  • Yes. Generally a mixture of AC & DC both LV & ELV for Loads and controls. Very occasionally up to 1500v DC but rare. 

    Selv/Pelv usually in the form of 24v DC is often distributed around a property from panel source(s) for DC lighting/controls etc. 

    By way of function and form it seems to me that these types of panes - which often also effectively contain the consumer unit are both Switchgear and Machinery (SSMR) often they include temperature & pressure controls etc 

    I would think the main issue is BS7671 does not cover control panels and specifically requires that they meet a product standard for installation, would it not follow that the EIC would not be the appropriate means of compliance?

  • Given that BS7671 is not a product standard how could it be adapted to fit emerging technologies and installations?

    There are standards for these assemblies already ... BS EN IEC 61439 series !

    They are by definition switchgear or controlgear.

    No change necessary for BS 7671 (which already points you to the other standards)

  • Well, an EIC is a convenient place to record that the installation has been designed, fitted and tested in a particular way, and who did it.

    I see really no problem with a similar record of what has happened when the installation is more complex and a mixture of electronics and electrical installation. 

    But equally I am not sure that it has to be done that way - after all alarms and things have been done differently for years - the important thing is that the installation is being done in a safe and well thought out way. It may be that certification in the style of '7671 is not the best.

    Mike

  • I fully agree Graham, but it seems the industry does not…

    Per my original comment these are almost exclusively ‘certified’ with an EIC, and it is in the main being accepted by Clients, Project managers, Building regulation and the various schemes. 

    Personally speaking I issue a DoC to whichever standards are applicable for completed panels etc but I get a lot of push back from industry. 

  • I fully agree Graham, but it seems the industry does not…

    To back up  's statement, here (highlighted) is the part of BS 7671 that tells us you cannot certify a panel like those shown in the OP to BS 7671:

    113.1 The Regulations apply to items of electrical equipment only so far as selection and application of the
    equipment in the installation are concerned. The Regulations do not deal with requirements for the construction of assemblies of electrical equipment, which are required to comply with appropriate standards.