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Should BS7671 take up the slack for new technologies?

Martyn

Hi All, 

Here are a couple of photos of panels that are now appearing in homes with some regularity. 

Where they are actually signed off, that is invariably being done with an EIC’s and the installations notified under Part P in the usual manner.

I have yet to speak to a ‘smart home installer’ or Electrician that sees much of an issue here. 

One of the manufacturers of the components in these two images actively ‘trains’ installers that this is acceptable and when challenged state ‘it is not their remit to tell Electricians how to do their job’

Given that BS7671 is not a product standard how could it be adapted to fit emerging technologies and installations?

Alternatively, how do we ensure Electricians are not wittingly or unwittingly placing themselves at risk from such installations. 

I spoke to both NICEIC & NAPIT Technical on such installations in respect of the requirements for their Approved contractors / Domestic installers etc etc. 

Neither one had any clue what I was talking about. 

Thanks 

Martyn

Parents
  • +1
    Martyn said:
    Given that BS7671 is not a product standard how could it be adapted to fit emerging technologies and installations?

    There are standards for these assemblies already ... BS EN IEC 61439 series !

    They are by definition switchgear or controlgear.

    No change necessary for BS 7671 (which already points you to the other standards)

Reply
  • +1
    Martyn said:
    Given that BS7671 is not a product standard how could it be adapted to fit emerging technologies and installations?

    There are standards for these assemblies already ... BS EN IEC 61439 series !

    They are by definition switchgear or controlgear.

    No change necessary for BS 7671 (which already points you to the other standards)

Children
  • 0 in reply to gkenyon

    I fully agree Graham, but it seems the industry does not…

    Per my original comment these are almost exclusively ‘certified’ with an EIC, and it is in the main being accepted by Clients, Project managers, Building regulation and the various schemes. 

    Personally speaking I issue a DoC to whichever standards are applicable for completed panels etc but I get a lot of push back from industry. 

  • 0 in reply to Martyn
    Martyn said:
    I fully agree Graham, but it seems the industry does not…

    To back up  's statement, here (highlighted) is the part of BS 7671 that tells us you cannot certify a panel like those shown in the OP to BS 7671:

    113.1 The Regulations apply to items of electrical equipment only so far as selection and application of the
    equipment in the installation are concerned. The Regulations do not deal with requirements for the construction of assemblies of electrical equipment, which are required to comply with appropriate standards.

  • 0 in reply to gkenyon

    The Regulations do not deal with requirements for the construction of assemblies of electrical equipment, which are required to comply with appropriate standards.

    I do see scope for confusion though - where does an installation stop and an assembly begin? Even BS 7671 seems confused - look at the definition of an "Electrical Installation" - An assembly of associated electrical equipment...

    Where do you draw a line between a FCU, timeswitch and wiring centre in a cupboard and an MCB and contactor in separate or shared modular enclosures?

       - Andy.

  • 0 in reply to AJJewsbury

      that's a fair question.

    We 'erect' an electrical installation, but these other 'assemblies" are 'constructed' ... which doesn't help much when 644.4 talks about the 'person or person responsible for ... construction ... of the installation' Confused

  • 0 in reply to gkenyon

    I suppose my head distinguishes between things from a variety of manufacturers put together on site to meet bespoke requirements (BS 7671 territory perhaps) vs factory designed, assembled and probably type tested (even if a few internal modules can be exchanged/added on site) (more 61439 territory).

       - Andy.

  • 0 in reply to AJJewsbury
    AJJewsbury said:
    bespoke requirements

    Well, what does that mean? BS EN IEC 61439-1 contains "requirements" that are not "bespoke" ... and there are such things as "bespoke control panels".

    Where you assemble things is perhaps a bit of a trap, for example machinery [as defined in the Supply of Machinery (Safety) Regulations] is often assembled on-site but BS 7671 stops at the supply to the machinery ... interconnections within the "machinery" are outside the scope of BS 7671.

  • 0 in reply to gkenyon

    Unfortunately the installer, whether or not he or she thinks of themselves as assembling something,  sort of are - even when the assembly is a collection of parts that have already been made elsewhere and type approved. It is quite possible to wire things up in a way that undoes the safety features or the EMC performance of a design that was perfectly satisfactory when tested 'under lab conditions'

    Maker's instructions only get you so far in this direction - you still have to know enough about what you are doing to avoid those states where things will not behave..

    I do not see the bifurcation between issuing of an EIC or the application of a CE mark as the biggest problem here, except perhaps from an audit trail perspective. The problem is, as ever, ensuring the installer/ assembler/ creator/ wizard is actually competent. And that is very much self declared, and really hard to know in advance...

    Mike.

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