Can someone point me in the direction of regs or good guidance relating to outdoor use of a 16a commando type socket vs 13a standard outdoor domestic socket in an outdoor industrial setting. We have an electrician who is arguing that because of rcd protection the 16a blue sockets are overkill. My view is the 13a plugs/sockets are dangerous in the wet - where the socket has little ip rating once the cover is opened. I’m struggling to find good guidance that supports my arguments.
13A sockets are not really the right object if they are going to be splashed or handled by folk with wet hands - to rely on the RCD implies that you accept tripping, and perhaps quite painful shock while it trips, as the 'normal' safety regime. Outdoors means different things - a socket in a car port or under an awning my be OK, and fair weather only applications (the gardener never cuts the grass in a storm..) 13A may be all right. Equally an extension lead in a puddle at a car wash certainly isn't.
BS7909 may be worth a look - not industrial of course, but camps and pop festivals are certainly examples of outdoors and all weather situations.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/precautions.htm
In wet surroundings, unsuitable equipment can become live and make its surroundings live too. Fuses, circuit-breakers and other devices must be correctly rated for the circuit they protect. Isolators and fuse-box cases should be kept closed and, if possible, locked.
Cables, plugs, sockets and fittings must be robust enough and adequately protected for the working environment. Ensure that machinery has an accessible switch or isolator to cut off the power quickly in an emergency.
Not black and white, but not '13A is always OK' either.
Mike
The standards for the plugs and sockets themselves should help quite nicely.
Industrial socket-outlets (BS EN IEC 60309 series, was BS 4343) are at least IP44 (splash-proof), but are also available in IP67 (waterproof) and IP66/IP67 (jet-proof/waterproof) combinations.
BS 1363 have no protection against the ingress of water in the product standard. Socket-outlets to BS 1363-2 are IP20 (unless otherwise declared by the manufacturer). More importantly, ingress protection is not mentioned at all in BS 1363-1 ... so, if, as mapj1 says, someone with wet hands pulls the plug, there is no protection.
In a place of work, therefore, a simple risk assessment would move towards the use of BS EN IEC 60309 series plugs and socket-outlets in an area where it might be subject to people using the plugs an socket-outlets in wet conditions.
Incidentally, I have replaced the BS 1363-1 plug on my own jet washer with a BS EN IEC 60309 series plug, and use it with an appropriate extension lead with a BS EN IEC 60309 series free outlet.
Cable might also be a consideration. If cables spend nearly every day submerged in puddles, then PVC flex (H05VV-F) is not advisable - H07RN-F would be a better choice and is normally fitted to commercial "wet area" equipment for that reason.
Just a reminder, though, that BS EN IEC 60309-2 socket-outlets should not normally be installed in domestic (household) premises, see Regulation 533.1.201.
though plenty of 'home workshop' situations do use them for 'almost fixed' wiring like bandsaws, lathes, welders and the like, and regs aside, like the one on Grahams pressure washer, there are certainly cases where they are really a far more appropriate choice.(shuttered or not ;-) )
I've got to say that as I have a few on a 20A radial at home.
Mike.
where the socket has little ip rating once the cover is opened
There are differing types - some have covers that can't be closed while the socket is in use (e.g. https://www.toolstation.com/bg-ip55-socket/p13533) while others shut nicely with almost any kind of plug (e.g. https://www.toolstation.com/bg-ip66-single-13a-socket-with-large-enclosure/p33435) (as well as others in between) - so while with neither would you want to do the actual plugging or unplugging in the pouring rain, some may well be suitable for use in the wet.
A lot depends on what the sockets are being used for and whether the plugging/unplugging is likely to happen in wet conditions. Most power tools probably wouldn't be suitable for use in the wet regardless of what kind of plug they're fitted with
- Andy..
see Regulation 533.1.201
A slight typo, Graham - Reg 553.1.201.
You can debate whether 3 kW+ machines are for, "household and similar use".
an outdoor industrial setting
Conversely, if BS1363 sockets are primarily for household and similar premises, including shops, offices, etc. they are probably not ideal for industrial premises. In fact, Clause 1 of BS 1363-2:2023 says, "This part of BS 1363 specifies requirements for ... socket-outlets for household, commercial and light industrial purposes ... (my emphasis).
Never, say never.
A potential downside of the metal range type IP66 BS 1363-type sockets is that they may be used with a plain standard BS 1363-1 plug, which defeats the IP rating.
The BS EN IEC 60309 series plug and socket-outlet are always at least IP44 when mated.
like the one on Grahams pressure washer,
And the 16 A outlet in the workshop part of my garage, for the welder (because I don't want to damage a BS 1363 plug and socket-outlet with it) ... but also very handy for connecting a camp-site mains lead set when the Gazebo is up in summer !
The gazebo wouldn't have lasted long over the past couple of days, though ... we've had a rather bad case of wind !
Very true, my Dad had a similar metal plug and socket set installed on the outside of the house we lived in over fifty years ago, but in reality any 13 amp plug could be used in the socket.
That was initially okay, because it was only used for gardening, then the fish pond pump was plugged in on a semi permanent basis without a proper IP rated plug.
They have been available for many years, but have fallen out of general use.
Remember though, fifty years ago most UK 110 volt site tool plugs had replaceable fused pins, we do have a long tradition of fusing plugs in the UK.
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