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Multiple AFDD’s tripping.

Stuff

Hi all, I wonder if anyone can shed some light on an arc-fault-finding issue?

Installation details:

Large domestic property with a 42-way DB, a large Loxone (home automation) panel with it’s own 24V battery backup. Uniti Power Usymphony SPY300 provides UPS for two circuits (WI-FI & Medical equipment). Install with no issues since May 2023. A Riello SDH 3000 Sentinel Dual 3000VA is providing UPS to a home lift circuit that was added over a month ago.

Eleven Contactum 32A AFDDs are installed on all socket outlet circuits. RCBO’s on all other circuits

The property is located close to a small/medium-sized retail park.

The Problem:

The homeowner called on Monday this week to say that the kitchen electrics had tripped out. She then followed up with messages to say that the annexe kitchen had tripped, then the loft and then the bedroom sockets. All had tripped when appliances were operated. Sometimes a washing machine, toaster, kettle hover, etc. In all, four AFDD circuits tripping randomly.

Fault finding:

The kitchen AFDD stays up, but when I put on the kettle and the toaster the AFDD trips. If the fridge and toaster are on, the AFDD trips.  With the UPS systems removed, it still happens.

I removed both UPS systems before testing.

I tested the kitchen circuit; it was solid, with no issues. Earth leakage at the incomer was 23.55mA; on the kitchen circuit, it was 3.4mA with appliances on standby. I tested all the kitchen appliances under load, and the total leakage was approximately 3 mA. I ramp-tested the AFDD—23mA. I moved the appliances around the property and could see that they were not the problem. So, it was definitely an arc issue. Also, the LED status indicated an arc trip. Continuity tests confirmed no loose connections.

With all other circuits off. I cannot get the kitchen AFDD to trip.

Cause:

I spoke with Contactum technical, who were really helpful, but we couldn’t determine what was tripping the arc device.  Spoke to the NICEIC – they could not provide any support.

The fact that it has been in place for over a year with no issue, could it be a quality of supply issue from Nathoin Gird? The property has had a number of mini power cuts in the past – hence the UPS going in.

Any suggestions?

 

Thanks in advance. :-)

Parents
  • 0

    So what has changed ? - have the neighbours bought a welder, is the local substation making 'chip shop frying' noises' ? Has the end user installed something else that maybe a source of RF or spikes on the line?

    You are really in a tight corner with AFDDs - neither the makers of the devices nor the testgear makers have really bothered to consider how the heck you test them and there is no clear path to de-bug a case like this.


    In your shoes I'd leave the RCBOs in if the case is unproven and feel no guilt at all - anything else is just your dead loss.

    Mike.

  • 0 in reply to mapj1

    I am currently facing a degree of apprehension regarding the mandatory integration of Arc AFDDs within HMOs. The inflexibility to substitute these devices in the event of complications presents a significant concern. Given these circumstances, is it permissible to omit the installation of AFDDs and record this action as a deviation ?

  • 0 in reply to AMK

    I suspect it will happen, if strictly a non-compliance or not, in cases like the original post, if there is no clear fault to fix, and the other  alternative is no power - and no power sounds safer but really is not when  folk start to use candles when the power goes off...

    I do not see the current approach as very sensible - all the diagnosis, test gear, arc simulation etc needs to be in place, as it has been for a few decades with RCDs with ramp testers and so on. The current dash appears unseemly.

    Mike.

  • 0 in reply to mapj1

    I am currently apprehensive about the potential for follow-up call outs to address non-existent issues after installing these devices in a project due for completion which is constrained by a stringent budget. Given the mandatory installation requirements, I am wondering is it possible to omit AFDDs in HMOs? After handover to the client and EICs issued I couldn’t just substitute these with RCBOs in this particular scenario. After reading this thread, I’m now feeling slightly worried. 

  • 0 in reply to AMK

    No, insurance companies will not accept it.

  • 0 in reply to Sparkingchip

    Thanks Sparkingchip, appreciate your advice. The AFDDs have been purchased and installed. The supply connection to the building is scheduled for completion this week. Have you had inquiries or issues reported concerning AFDDs? Additionally, may I inquire which brand of device you prefer ?

  • 0 in reply to AMK

    engx.theiet.org/.../fire-combustibility-exclusion-clause-professional-indemnity-insurance

  • 0 in reply to Sparkingchip

    What fire safety regulations are they referring to? 

  • 0 in reply to lyledunn

    I imagine it would be all encompassing, including BS7671.

    Probably best to avoid finding out the hard way.

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