Smart Meter Communication - or NOT? Part 3

Hello folks, I'm a retired MIET looking for some help about smart meter communication.  I'm not wanting to stir up the whole hornets' nest about smart meter suitability, but have some specific questions which I'm hoping some may be able to help with.

Having avoided these meters for years and years I've bought a house which had a dead gas meter.  The supplier had been billing the previous (also dead) owner with high estimated bills for months and months even though the house was empty while his family worked through the estate process.  The gas meter's battery had gone flat after about 7 years.  I got the supplier to replace the gas meter with some initial reluctance, and their contractor changed the electricity meter at the same time.  Both previous meters were SMETS1, the new ones marked SMETS2.  The replacement didn't seem to take long.

As you might expect when I'm asking about this, 6 months later the gas meter still isn't communicating with the supplier though the new electricity meter reports "smart readings" accurately.  Citizens' Advice's onlne smart-meter checker shows that the gas meter is installed but not commissioned.  All attempts to get the supplier to fix this have failed, and an investigation by the Energy Ombudsman shows that they haven't done anything at all in 6 months, either internally or with DCC.  They're offering a small payment for inconvenience but no guarantee that they will get DCC involved or that anyone will be able to fix this.  I'd really like to get this meter to work correctly or even get another new one fitted correctly.  I'm aged 75 and find it a real chore to get down to read the dim-light display outside, perhaps in the rain, or get my wife with mobility issues to hold the vertical meter cupboard door open while I try to photograph the display.  I've not signed a contract with the supplier until the problem is fixed, so am on a "deemed" contract with monthly bills though the gas ones are estimated (higher) until I send them corrected values.

I'm not an expert in this area but the distance between meters is only about 5 metres, in a small detached bungalow with the two meters on the same level, electric in the front porch, gas in a plastic box on an outside wall.  This is in a sizeable town in south-west Scotland with good mobile phone coverage from several companies and no big hills or nearby tall buildings.  My new broadband supplier also mentioned radar as a possible issue when discussing initially-low wifi speeds, but their follow-up with BT got speeds on both ethernet and wifi up to very high levels, once the fibre configuration had been corrected.  The nearest airport is about 5 miles away.

Curiously, my new next-door neighbour also found that his old gas meter was dead and had it replaced by the same supplier, perhaps surprisingly his new gas meter doesn't send smart readings for his usage either.

I hear from the Consumers' Association's recent survey of 10,000 members around the UK, that about 16% of users had various problems with their smart meters in the last year.  Some questions for this group, is this kind of problem localised by geography, eg are there any working smart gas meters in south-west Scotland at all?  Are there some suppliers with particular difficulties in operating their smart gas meters?  What does it take to get DCC to look into this, our present supplier has failed to contact them at all so far, is there a cost for them to do this?  I can understand a reluctance to send engineers out to every location on cost grounds but I'd have hoped that my inclusion on the supplier's Priority Service Register might count for something with some customers.

Could someone perhaps explain the "commissioning" process in more detail?  I've read on other uncertain forums that the gas meter may only be polled via the electricity meter ever hour or so, so that engineers are reluctant to wait around for successful registration to take place.

The Energy Ombudsman's decision though upholding my complaint, refers to there perhaps being "potential issues... part of a wider issue with smart meters within the energy industry".  Is there any public documentation of such a "wider issue" apart from the obvious cases of meters widely separated within blocks of flats, or with signal paths blocked by metalwork, tall buildings, radar etc, none of which apply to my location.

So, quite a lot of questions, but I hope someone can shed some light on some of these.   Thanks in advance,     Alan S   MIET (retd)

  • Hello Alan

    As you surmise the gas meter is read via the electricity meter.  The gas meter has no wider connection.  As your electricity meter is working and is being read remotely then either the gas meter has failed or has never been properly 'connected' to the electricity meter in commissioning.  The physical arrangements you have described shouldn't present a problem for these inter meter communications unless for some reason there is a larger metal barrier between the two meters.

    Your supplier is responsible for getting this fixed.  Have they been back to site since you raised the complaint?  If not I would insist that they come and recommision the gas meter.  If they have tried and failed then there should be some sort of report from the meter fitter which would shed light on th issue.

    If they dont cooperate a letter (on paper)  to their chief executive normally produces results.

  • The gas meter has one lithium battery that has to last the life of the meter.  As a result, it only transmits at very low power, to the comms hub on top of the electricity meter.  If that's out of range, it will never work.

    The electricity meter is powered by the mains, so has a lot more power available to communicate with the DCC's network. 

  • I had a similar issue with my meters with Octopus, but they did get on the case and try to get things resolved. At one point, the comms module on the electricity meter was replaced, but that did not make any real difference.

    In the end, Octopus got to fed up with the "performance" of the meter reading infrastructure (not owned or run by them) that is used to pass the readings from the consumer to the supplier that they have started to supply the Octopus Home Mini that connects to the meters and sends the readings directly to them. I have had no reading issues since they sent me one.

    Though I have had a couple of £3k electricity bills when the meter reading company comes round, as their system has "forgotten" that I switched to a smart meter and they keep thinking that it has rolled over and submit crazy usage figures as a result - Octopus have instructed them to "get their act together" after this happened a second time (and gave me some credit for the inconvenience).

  • In Scotland and the North of England, electric smart meters use long range radio (LRR - 499MHz band I think) to communicate with the DCC rather than the mobile network. The gas meter communicates with the electric meter over the home area network (HAN) - a version of ZigBee I suspect - so I'd too would suspect a stupid setup error (or simple hardware fault) rather than anything fundamental (unless you consider lack of communication and co-ordination between call centres and the people who can actually fix such things as being a fundamental flaw).

      - Andy.

  • Thanks everyone for the helpful input so far.  I was particularly interested in the Octopus Home Mini mentioned by keylevel since I've had good experiences with service from Octopus at another property in the past.  More recently Octopus had some trouble doing a tariff switch for me there, although they did get it right in the end, so I hadn't tried them with this problem yet.  One customer service problem per large organisation, is enough to be going on with.

    I take statter's point about a written letter to a CEO, however (no names no pack drill at least so far) I suspect the CEO of this supplier is located in another European country and probably isn't very interested in legacy holdings in the UK.  Also the CEO of the local subsidiary may not be very motivated, looking at the customer service response to date as recorded by the Energy Ombudsman "service".  The supplier's people have so far refused to come back to site despite several requests and the "standards of performance (supplier) regulations 2015" seem only to require them to provide a meter which operates "within the margin for error" with meter readings, but not to communicate with the customer or supplier.  Who writes this stuff?  I had to resort to quoting these 2015 regulations to get them to come out at all to replace the old meter with the blank display, in a timely way.  

    Thanks to Andy for supporting my view that this is probably a stupid setup error or simple hardware fault, and for confirming what I'd suspected from other web searches, that smart meters in Scotland use radio rather than the older parts of the mobile network, where I hear mobile companies are now asking for more money to keep the old network frequencies going a bit longer than their shareholders would like.  As Simon says, the gas meter has a very limited power source and can only transmit on very low power, perhaps infrequently.  What could possibly go wrong and why don't people test these things at critical times like purchase and installation?  I notice that the new gas meter here is made in Romania, a country with a lot of engineering expertise but perhaps with sources selected more for low labour costs for assembly.

    For the moment, I'll continue with the Energy Ombudsman's "service" and see if anything comes of it.  Octopus certainly look like the next port of call, though.  I'll leave this post open for the moment for any more input, (anyone with an open-source Zigbee tester on a Raspberry Pi or BBC microbit,, or access for DIY "commissioning" of this meter on DCC's database)?  I'll try to update the post with any results here, later.

  • note sure if you have seen the hints and tips on this page https://forum.ovoenergy.com/smart-meters-136/second-generation-s2-aclara-smart-meter-health-check-smhc-8580

    it discusses the diagnostic lights etc to confirm links are up or not on various commpn types of meter - not sure if yours is among them.

    Mike

  • Hi Alan,

    Can you share which model of both gas and electricity meters are installed? If your provider remains unwilling to help, there are a number of budget-friendly options out there to streamline that data right to your phone, tablet, or a “smart home dock” right in your kitchen. This would at least save you the trouble of going down to the service head every month, and would provide you with completely accurate usage statistics.

  • Hi Chris,

    The gas meter's a Landis+Gyr G470 672, the electricity one a Landis+Gyr E470, the comms hub labelled EDMI CS010A-08-02.  As to whether my provider's remaining unwilling to help, the Energy Ombudsman "service" formally upheld a complaint last Monday, 6 months after this started, and today, Friday morning, a guy called me from the supplier's "smart meter department" just before I was due to go out.

    He got me to do some very simple button pushes at the gas meter and it connected to the HAN.  Not something I'd tried to do before but presumably not beyond a call centre's wit to describe how to check this.  Beyond that, he said he'd look into it from their end once there had been time for an hourly connection to take effect.  I had to go out this morning and asked him for an email update today on the results.  He has my email address because this was part of the "security" checks they do, and he did agree to email me.  Nothing appeared by this evening.  The in-kitchen display still shows only one fuel though it might need resetting.

    I'd read descriptions of streaming data to a phone or tablet, a smart home dock might be even better, but I don't really want to be spending money on this stuff, I just want the supplier to do what they say they'll do.  Anyway, I'll keep this thread updated on progress, and if you can point me to any devices to check on the service head without going out in the rain, that would be helpful.

  • Before Octopus gave me a Home Mini, the IHD would regularly "forget" that I had two meters - usually "fixed" by turning it off and on again. Luckily, the IHD has nothing to do with the readings that (should) get reported back to the supplier.

    A lot of the software used in devices like the IHDs is very low-quality. I think it's time that there was a legal requirement put on device manufacturers (for products containing software) to perform proper testing and to develop to a suitable engineering process (supported by a standard).

  • Hi Mark,

    Thanks for your earlier reply.  I'd seen that page before but it seemed to refer mostly to Aclara and Honeywell meters though with a link to hints on how to "manually read" a Landis+Gyr meter.  I've seen the difficulty of reading these meters at another property where both meters are still SMETS1 (installed by a tenant without our consent), but I can get manual readings from them and from the SMETS2 ones which are the source of the current problem (see reply to Chris Sperduto below).

    The WAN and HAN lights on the EDMI comms device for the SMETS2 installation both flash occasionally but are off most of the time.