Requirements for an electrical design & the EIC

I remember something the tutor said to myself on my original C&G 2391 course and one of those satements that sticks with you for life!

1) How can an installer, install something to comply with BS7671 if there was no Designer? Doesnt matter if its a complex project or an installer just adding in one new circuit. Either the installer is given the design by the Designer and thus the EIC should be signed by that party or the installer is actually the designer, in that case the installer signs for both. Or as we see on some EIC's there are multiple spaces for designers to be listed and for their respective signatures.

2) How can the verifier, verify an installation against BS7671 if it was neither designed or installed to that standard? So the verifier should be in possession of the design details and criteria and ensure during verification that what was proposed has actually been exceuted, or if site conditions, equipment etc changed since design was initially carried out they make sure that change still complies with BS7671. Again the verifier could of course also be the installer, but sometimes they may not be.

3) There is in theory three** checks or levels of "quality" control to ensure an electrical installation is in compliance with BS7671.  The designer ensures as far as reasonably practicable based on all details from client, principal designer etc they have carried out their electrical deisgn work in full compliance with BS7671 so thats the first "Check". The installer then makes sure that what physically is installed on site, the layout, equipment, use etc etc is indeed as the deisgner was informed if not its redesigned by the designer or the installer to suit the change, the installer ensures the installation is in accordance with BS7671 as far as their work is concerned. So thats the second "Check". Finally the verifier is the third and final safety/quality/verification check against BS7671 to ensure that in their view the installation they are verifying is indeed designed and installed correctly to BS7671.

That made sense to me in 1998 and still makes sense to me today.

Yes, contract awards and who does what may be far more complex nowadays, but to me my logic above is still sound. The parties involved only sign for the work under their control and responsibility, but  there needs to be a design, install and verification sign off. world I work in can be lots of EIC's at the end of the project, but a EIC handed to myself with no signature against the design will be sent back to the electrical contractor if design was in their contract, or I will sign the design part myself if I was also providing a design element.

Cheers GTB   

I remember something the tutor said to myself on my original C&G 2391 course and one of those satements that sticks with you for life!

1) How can an installer, install something to comply with BS7671 if there was no Designer? Doesnt matter if its a complex project or an installer just adding in one new circuit. Either the installer is given the design by the Designer and thus the EIC should be signed by that party or the installer is actually the designer, in that case the installer signs for both. Or as we see on some EIC's there are multiple spaces for designers to be listed and for their respective signatures.

2) How can the verifier, verify an installation against BS7671 if it was neither designed or installed to that standard? So the verifier should be in possession of the design details and criteria and ensure during verification that what was proposed has actually been exceuted, or if site conditions, equipment etc changed since design was initially carried out they make sure that change still complies with BS7671. Again the verifier could of course also be the installer, but sometimes they may not be.

3) There is in theory three** checks or levels of "quality" control to ensure an electrical installation is in compliance with BS7671.  The designer ensures as far as reasonably practicable based on all details from client, principal designer etc they have carried out their electrical deisgn work in full compliance with BS7671 so thats the first "Check". The installer then makes sure that what physically is installed on site, the layout, equipment, use etc etc is indeed as the deisgner was informed if not its redesigned by the designer or the installer to suit the change, the installer ensures the installation is in accordance with BS7671 as far as their work is concerned. So thats the second "Check". Finally the verifier is the third and final safety/quality/verification check against BS7671 to ensure that in their view the installation they are verifying is indeed designed and installed correctly to BS7671.

That made sense to me in 1998 and still makes sense to me today.

Yes, contract awards and who does what may be far more complex nowadays, but to me my logic above is still sound. The parties involved only sign for the work under their control and responsibility, but  there needs to be a design, install and verification sign off. world I work in can be lots of EIC's at the end of the project, but a EIC handed to myself with no signature against the design will be sent back to the electrical contractor if design was in their contract, or I will sign the design part myself if I was also providing a design element.

Cheers GTB   

GTB said:

The parties involved only sign for the work under their control and responsibility, but  there needs to be a design, install and verification sign off.

The EIC does contain a box for 'description and extent of the installation' ... which needn't be a "whole installation'. So, it is still the correct vehicle to use, even if you are only responsible for the design, installation, or verification, of only one circuit, or perhaps even a part of a circuit for which a MEIWC is not appropriate.

Moreover, depending on the contract, a larger installation, building or premises might well, even when newly pressed into service, have many EICs.

In my experience, on sites where there is more than one contractor providing electrical, M&E, security and comms works, planning for the "end game" is the best approach. Try to get agreement early-doors what is acceptable to the parties involved for partial and final handover, and the scope, format and responsibilities for relevant paperwork. Planning to succeed, and agreeing what success looks like, is always better than having to dispute whether or not one or more parties have actually succeeded. A QS I know, who is also a member of the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, would call it "plan to get paid" - run your part of the the contract around the payment applications and key milestone events, and know what's needed for each.

GTB said:

I remember something the tutor said to myself on my original C&G 2391 course and one of those satements that sticks with you for life!

I think that we must have had a same tutor. :-)

I think that you could just about have an EIC with no design if you replace a broken consumer unit like-for-like. Other than that, I struggle to think of anything more than minor work which does not involve an element of choice - in other words, design.